Creating one mp3 file with LACE and CSG

[Ian Alexander]

I have a narration that will end up on CD. Each section will be a new track. To save time, I added the track markers with CSG during the VO editing, so I wouldn't have to go back and find them all later. That all worked fine.

For the client to proof the audio, I want to create one long mp3 file and post it for download. With CSG in the session, I can't seem to do that. CSG wants to create one mp3 file for each track. CSG is in the Final Res FX patch. I tried bypassing that patch on the EMixer. That made SSB crash at the end of the rendering. I did get a bunch of mp3 files, though.

Any ideas on how I can get one mp3 of the whole session without removing CSG and then putting it back in and finding all those points again? If that's what I have to do, I can add Control Track markers for each track. But I'd rather save even that time.

Thanks.

[Ian Alexander]

Had an idea for a workaround:

Made a copy of the edl. Deleted CSG from that edl and made my long mp3 with LACE. Deleted that edl copy. Still have all the CSG tracks in the original.

Pretty quick, but would still like to learn if there's a way to achieve the same result in one edl.

[Bob L]

Well... with CSG patched and the mp3 plugin patched, you are using the Build Mix To FX option... that will cause each patched FX to do its thing at the same time.

One or the other in this case would be the way around it.

If CSG has its own bypass in the plug itself, you could have used that temporarily.

Or... CSG does have the option to make one long wav file for the project... then you would go back and convert that wav to an mp3.

I do my mp3 conversions outside SS... actually makes things quicker and easier, I think... I use the dbPowerAmp converter listed in my misc downloads section... works great right from inside the Windows Explorer.

Bob L

[Dave Labrecque]

Ian, are you saying that the "one big file" option in CSG doesn't work in tandem with LACE?

I agree with Bob that it's simpler to create the WAV in SAW, then convert to MP3 using dBpoweramp in Windows Explorer.

Plus, LACE doesn't give you a high-quality option when creating MP3's, while dBpoweramp does. This fact precludes my using LACE for anything but draft-quality MP3's. I've mentioned this before, but no one seems to think it's important. :confused:

[TotalSonic]

Ian, are you saying that the "one big file" option in CSG doesn't work in tandem with LACE?

I agree with Bob that it's simpler to create the WAV in SAW, then convert to MP3 using dBpoweramp in Windows Explorer.

Plus, LACE doesn't give you a high-quality option when creating MP3's, while dBpoweramp does. This fact precludes my using LACE for anything but draft-quality MP3's. I've mentioned this before, but no one seems to think it's important. :confused:

I think a number of us think it's important - it's just that LACE was created well before the "very high" quality option was added to the LAME codec - and at this point the one person who could add this to LACE - that is Jon Marshall Smith - hasn't done it. As always you can contact Jon with the request at jon at jms-audioware dot com - but I wouldn't hold your breath as further development of his SAW plugins isn't that big of a priority for him these days. I'd personally would love to see FLAC support added in a LACE update as well. In the meantime I find there's tons of batch converters out there that do support all of these options - so to me it's just as easy to build out wav files and have an external batch format converter take care of the rest.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Ian Alexander]

Thanks for the replies.

The CSG file options are:

One big wav
One wav per track
One mp3 per track.

CSG doesn't appear to have an internal bypass.

LACE does offer a high quality, but not very high, as Steve subtly points out. I confess that high is high enough for me on radio spots at 192kbps. In this case, a low res proof, quality is irrelevant. I'm going for a quicker client download.

I wrote to JMS some time ago and asked if it would make sense to have LACE output default to the session folder. He agreed and made it so. I just asked him to add the Very High Quality option.

I don't understand how creating a wav file, opening Explorer, then creating the mp3 is simpler than BuildMix to FX. 3 steps vs. 1 step.:o I admit that with huge drives being dirt cheap, the extra disk space isn't much of an issue.

[Bob L]

In most cases, I would always want the uncompressed wav file as the highest final render from any project...

Then I have the option to convert that to multiple formats as needed without having to re-open and re-render the original project.

The conversion process can definitely end up with different results from one conversion utility to another... and its nice to have the option to try different ones without having to wait over and over for the project to re-render each time.

Bob L

[Dave Labrecque]

I think a number of us think it's important...

Oh, good. :) I just don't ever recall anyone reacting to my pointing this out in the past.

[Dave Labrecque]

Thanks for the replies.

The CSG file options are:

One big wav
One wav per track
One mp3 per track.

CSG doesn't appear to have an internal bypass.

LACE does offer a high quality, but not very high, as Steve subtly points out. I confess that high is high enough for me on radio spots at 192kbps. In this case, a low res proof, quality is irrelevant. I'm going for a quicker client download.

I wrote to JMS some time ago and asked if it would make sense to have LACE output default to the session folder. He agreed and made it so. I just asked him to add the Very High Quality option.

I don't understand how creating a wav file, opening Explorer, then creating the mp3 is simpler than BuildMix to FX. 3 steps vs. 1 step.:o I admit that with huge drives being dirt cheap, the extra disk space isn't much of an issue.

My bad. Yes, I meant 'very high' quality.

To me it's simpler to do the conversion after the fact because you don't have to mess with patching and setting the options for LACE.

Plus I like the thing about having WAV masters in the can that Bob mentioned.

[Dave Labrecque]

Dave,
Save, then, Change your .edl name, and save it. Then, in your new .edl, take out the CSG, and make your whole file. You can then go back to your original .edl.

Stash,

I think you intended this for Ian?

BTW, there's a way easier way to do what you're suggesting. Check out the difference between Save As... and Save Copy As... on SAW's File menu.

[UpTilDawn]

Stash,

I think you intended this for Ian?

BTW, there's a way easier way to do what you're suggesting. Check out the difference between Save As... and Save Copy As... on SAW's File menu.

What IS the difference?.... I've always wondered.

[Ian Alexander]

I guess everyone has their own workflow. I made the low res mp3 file as a proof. If the client makes changes, and I've already made a wav, I have to make two new files. In my evil plan, I make just one.

In SS vs. out: If the client wants changes, I'm gonna hafta open the edl anyway and LACE makes an mp3 about as fast as anything else.

When it's time to make the CD, of course I will make uncompressed wavs.:)

I begin to understand the frustration some members feel when they ask how to do something and the answer is: You don't want to do that.:D

[Ian Alexander]

What IS the difference?.... I've always wondered.

Save As saves the edl under a new name and the new edl is open.

Save Copy As saves a copy of the edl under a new name and the original edl stays open.

Note that neither of these commands saves the original edl. So it's a good idea to do a regular Save before either of the above if you want the original edl saved in its current form.

[UpTilDawn]

Save As saves the edl under a new name and the new edl is open.

Save Copy As saves a copy of the edl under a new name and the original edl stays open.

Note that neither of these commands saves the original edl. So it's a good idea to do a regular Save before either of the above if you want the original edl saved in its current form.

So, the only difference is that in one case the original edl stays open and in the other case the original edl stays open, but with a new name. Got it.

I always tend to save the edl I'm working in before saving a new name (or copy once in a blue moon)... even when I really didn't want to....:rolleyes:

DanT

[Dave Labrecque]

I guess everyone has their own workflow. I made the low res mp3 file as a proof. If the client makes changes, and I've already made a wav, I have to make two new files. In my evil plan, I make just one.

In SS vs. out: If the client wants changes, I'm gonna hafta open the edl anyway and LACE makes an mp3 about as fast as anything else.

When it's time to make the CD, of course I will make uncompressed wavs.:)

I begin to understand the frustration some members feel when they ask how to do something and the answer is: You don't want to do that.:D

Ian, BFG would be a solution for ya, no?

From http://www.jms-audioware.com/BatchGen.htm:


Interaction with LACE

You will notice one of the available filetypes is 'Send to LACE.'

When the option is used, LACE must also be patched. BFG will use LACE to create files based on LACE's current settings. Note that LACE files cannot overlap, as the LACE encoder is fed linearly during the build pass, and can only encode one file at a time.

[bcorkery]

Dave,

I've noticed that with using BFG to LACE you need to give a little free space after the file or the resulting MP3 will be chopped at the end. I usually doe the BGF to wav and batch with what's handy, Soundforge or PowerAmp

[Ian Alexander]

Ian, BFG would be a solution for ya, no?

From http://www.jms-audioware.com/BatchGen.htm:

Interaction with LACE

You will notice one of the available filetypes is 'Send to LACE.'

When the option is used, LACE must also be patched. BFG will use LACE to create files based on LACE's current settings. Note that LACE files cannot overlap, as the LACE encoder is fed linearly during the build pass, and can only encode one file at a time.

Dave, I confess I've never fully understood BFG. It seems to be for large batches of files that get created over and over again, with minor changes. I have never had a job like that. When my jobs have changes, the clients want only the revised files, not everything.

In this case, I'm creating a one-off CD, so I want the CSG features of exact frame boundaries, etc. But before I burn the CD with multiple tracks, the client wanted one long mp3 (as small as practical) to run past medical/legal.

I have always used one wav file per track in CSG. I suppose I could choose one wav file instead, although I've never tried that with Nero. That would let me create the mp3 using other programs. But I'm still thinking that BuildMix to FX using LACE is pretty quick and easy.

Thanks.

[Dave Labrecque]

Dave,

I've noticed that with using BFG to LACE you need to give a little free space after the file or the resulting MP3 will be chopped at the end. I usually doe the BGF to wav and batch with what's handy, Soundforge or PowerAmp

Good point, Bill. I'd forgotten about that. IIRC, what was happening is that if you have auto zero cross turned on, the marked area that BFG generates for the buildmix will respond to that (auto zero cross) and likely change your BFG-defined area, resulting in inaccurate builds. Try it with AZC turned off and see if your problem doesn't go away.

I think I sent a note to JMS about this, but don't think it's been fixed. Be sure you're on the latest version, though, just in case he did fix it.

[Dave Labrecque]

Dave, I confess I've never fully understood BFG. It seems to be for large batches of files that get created over and over again, with minor changes. I have never had a job like that. When my jobs have changes, the clients want only the revised files, not everything.

In this case, I'm creating a one-off CD, so I want the CSG features of exact frame boundaries, etc. But before I burn the CD with multiple tracks, the client wanted one long mp3 (as small as practical) to run past medical/legal.

I have always used one wav file per track in CSG. I suppose I could choose one wav file instead, although I've never tried that with Nero. That would let me create the mp3 using other programs. But I'm still thinking that BuildMix to FX using LACE is pretty quick and easy.

Thanks.

Sorry, I was off in space. You need CSG for the CD output part of your project, and you only need one big MP3, not a batch of several. Silly me.

Yeah, the quickest solution (if you want to use LACE) seems to be to do a quick Save As... of the session, remove CSG, and build to FX modules using LACE. What's not to like?

[Ian Alexander]

Deja vu.
:D