SAW forcing On Top status over other programs [Archive]

UpTilDawn

10-31-2009, 07:33 PM

Lately (and it may be due to some of the recent changes), it seems that whenever I try to work with another application with SAW open, Saw will grab the focus away from whatever program I try to switch to from the taskbar.

One example is when I finish using CSG and wish to open Nero.
Another example is when I am trying to refer to text notes in Notepad.

It takes two or three attempts to grab/re-gain focus on the other application before SAW will finally stop grabbing it back from me... this happens even if I minimize SAW first.

This didn't happen before I recently updated SAW to 4.9 from 4.6 (I think was the last version I'd had on the tower)...

Is this a problem with my installation, or is there something new in SAW that forces it to insist on keeping the focus? If so, is there a way to defeat it?

Thanks,
DanT

Bob L

10-31-2009, 07:48 PM

Not sure... a few have mantioned the same thing... I did make some changes in the past few versions...

I'll look into it further.

Bob L

UpTilDawn

10-31-2009, 09:56 PM

Thanks Bob.
I wasn't sure if it was intentional.... I lose track of the changes.

DanT

MMP

11-01-2009, 05:02 AM

I find that now if I Cntrl Tab to get to other programs, they don't switch until the second time I go around the whole list. Could this be related?

Regards,

MM

Bud Johnson

11-01-2009, 07:39 AM

I find that now if I Cntrl Tab to get to other programs, they don't switch until the second time I go around the whole list. Could this be related?

Regards,

MM
Ditto.

bcorkery

11-01-2009, 09:28 AM

I generally have to go to the Windows button to get to my hidden task bar. Cursor to the bottom doesn't work.

Angie

11-01-2009, 11:01 AM

I find that now if I Cntrl Tab to get to other programs, they don't switch until the second time I go around the whole list. Could this be related?

Regards,

MM

Ditto +2

I thought it was something funky with my computer.

UpTilDawn

11-01-2009, 01:19 PM

I generally have to go to the Windows button to get to my hidden task bar. Cursor to the bottom doesn't work.

That's been continuing to happen to me too for quite a long while. Thought it was fixed many versions back, but it's still there. I ended up resizing all my F-key files so the verticle size is just high enough to clear at least half of the taskbar underneath Saw when I pull the cursor down to the bottom of the monitor. That way I can still get to it when I need it. I'm not crazy about losing that one extra track in my max-track view, but at least it works.

DanT

bcorkery

11-01-2009, 09:17 PM

Good advice Dan. I didn't even consider this because I expected the task bar to pop up over SAW. Seems like an easy fix.

Thanks,
Bill

Bob L

11-01-2009, 11:00 PM

RBIngraham

11-02-2009, 10:02 AM

That behaviour for the taskbar has always been there... the original F-Key defaults in SS always left a small gap at the bottom for the normal taskbar position.

In fact, that taskbar blockage happens for me on many different apps... not even involving SS or SAC.

Bob L

I've run into some similar issue with SAC. Just out of curiosity, why is that when you click the Maximize in SAC or SAW that it wants to take over the entire screen? Almost all applications I run, when you click that, they leave the taskbar intact just fine at the bottom of your screen. The only time the taskbar should ever hide on you is if you turn on the autohide feature, which I used to do when screen real estate was at a much higher premium than it is now days. Other wise no application should cover up the taskbar. It's just the way windows software is supposed to work.

Bob L

11-02-2009, 12:12 PM

TotalSonic

11-02-2009, 12:31 PM

ambler

11-02-2009, 12:46 PM

fwiw -
my work around any of these issues is that I run a dual monitor setup -
and have an F-key which places SAW only on one monitor so that I can work with any other program on the second monitor.

It still takes two attemps to switch focus to another app. Being able to see it doesn't mean it's responsive to user input.

Mark

TotalSonic

11-02-2009, 03:15 PM

It still takes two attemps to switch focus to another app. Being able to see it doesn't mean it's responsive to user input.

Mark

Just tested this on both my Win2k and WinXP DAW's and it just takes me a single click to go back and forth between them. I'm using ATI cards with their Hydravision display management software running. One thing - I only have SAW's "background" on my primary monitor - my other F-keys just put windows on the 2nd monitor but don't have the background stretching over there.
I'm also still on 4.8 here - so don't know if this was a problem introduced with 4.9 is the reason I'm not seeing it.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Demodave

11-02-2009, 03:25 PM

I'm also still on 4.8 here - so don't know if this was a problem introduced with 4.9 is the reason I'm not seeing it.

The way SS insists on being in the foreground started with one of the very recent versions. I don't have the luxury of being able to run a computer that is 100% dedicated to SAW. I'm also running Outlook, Word, and our radio automation software on the same computer. Hopefully Bob can figure out why SS is now doing this. And if it's intentional, maybe an option can be added to disable it.

UpTilDawn

11-02-2009, 08:28 PM

The way SS insists on being in the foreground started with one of the very recent versions. I don't have the luxury of being able to run a computer that is 100% dedicated to SAW. I'm also running Outlook, Word, and our radio automation software on the same computer. Hopefully Bob can figure out why SS is now doing this. And if it's intentional, maybe an option can be added to disable it.

It's very recent behavior here.... that is, the multiple attempts to get another app to gain focus, not the taskbar thing, which is evidently not related as Bob tells it.

DanT

RBIngraham

11-02-2009, 09:36 PM

Well... because that's how I designed it to work... screen real estate is precious... I wanted all I could get.

And... you should know by now SAC and SAWStudio don't work like the other Windows software works... Thank Goodness eh!!! :)

Bob L

Fair Enough, I understand, rules (standards) are meant to be broken. Although I think the need for every inch of real estate now days is drastically diminished with the size of screen resolutions available these days and with how cheap it is to go to dual heads. Hell you can almost put together a small SAC system now days for what my first dual head Matrox Video card and 2 17" CRT monitors set me back. :p

Carl G.

11-04-2009, 03:01 AM

I generally have to go to the Windows button to get to my hidden task bar. Cursor to the bottom doesn't work.

Thank goodness! I sure wouldn't want the windows task bar popping up over my SS controls erratically as I adjust SS controls! I love the way it works.

I multitask programs at times too - If I want Taskbar or Windows Start button while running SS, all I have to do is move my left pinky and tap the windows button. Easy and deliberate for a deliberate reason.

Naturally Digital

12-02-2009, 09:47 PM

Hi Bob,

Have you been able to make any progress on this issue of SAW/SAC forcing other programs into the background?

Bob L

12-03-2009, 12:07 AM

Still looking into it... perhaps I'll have some fixes for the coming SAC update at least.

Bob L

UpTilDawn

12-03-2009, 11:34 AM

I was JUST thinking about this yesterday!;)

DanT

Naturally Digital

12-03-2009, 11:45 AM

I was JUST thinking about this yesterday!;)Yeah, I don't want to be too pushy (I used up my pushy points a while ago, on the punch-in thing :rolleyes:) but I'm hoping for a fix soon. I don't know why it broke but when working long days with SAW and SAC (with SAC-link), totalmix and an explorer window or two open, this can get very frustrating.

I don't understand why some are experiencing this, and others aren't. :confused:

DominicPerry

12-03-2009, 11:50 AM

There are various 'Allow window to Steal Focus' flags all over Windows, hidden in the OS, and more pertinent, as part of graphics drivers. So I imagine that the differences will be down to what graphics cards people have and how they have set them up. Or what Registry tweaks they have, or Service Pack or security patches. Remember how IE used to let hundreds of windows pop up all over the place and steal focus. Now it doesn't happen, although I challenge you to click on your IE icon to launch and then work in another app while it's launching without IE trampling all over you. Firefox and Chrome (well, Iron) don't do this.

Dominic

UpTilDawn

12-03-2009, 03:46 PM

We can always jump back to 4.X for the time being if it's really an issue (which is what I'm considering for the moment).... that is, unless 4.9 enhancements are needed.

DanT

Naturally Digital

07-01-2019, 06:17 PM

Still looking into it... perhaps I'll have some fixes for the coming SAC update at least.Hello Bob!

Resurrecting this thread because having worked with SAWStudio64 on a clean install of Win7/64 recently, I was reminded of it as I was trying to pull up the RME applications: TotalMix and the RME settings window.

If I have SAW open in front of me and I go to the Windows taskbar and click on the RME settings icon, the window opens, but immediately pops behind SAWStudio's main program window. I then have to alt-tab to it or click on the taskbar to bring the RME window to the foreground.

This happens with all windows other than the SAWStudio window... Task manager, Notepad etc.

IIRC years ago you made some changes at one point, perhaps in response to comments about the Windows Taskbar/SAWStudio On-top behavior. SAWStudio's been forcing itself on-top of other windows ever since those changes.

Would it be possible to change it back to the way it worked before? ;)

UpTilDawn

07-01-2019, 06:38 PM

Hello Bob!

Resurrecting this thread because having worked with SAWStudio64 on a clean install of Win7/64 recently, I was reminded of it as I was trying to pull up the RME applications: TotalMix and the RME settings window.

If I have SAW open in front of me and I go to the Windows taskbar and click on the RME settings icon, the window opens, but immediately pops behind SAWStudio's main program window. I then have to alt-tab to it or click on the taskbar to bring the RME window to the foreground.

This happens with all windows other than the SAWStudio window... Task manager, Notepad etc.

IIRC years ago you made some changes at one point, perhaps in response to comments about the Windows Taskbar/SAWStudio On-top behavior. SAWStudio's been forcing itself on-top of other windows ever since those changes.

Would it be possible to change it back to the way it worked before? ;)

I don't remember it having stopped forcing itself on top. Maybe it did for a while, but it's such a common thing to me to have to click on a programs icon in the taskbar multiple times to get it to come up on top of SAW, that I've stopped thinking about it. There's weirdness, still/too between SAW and SAC, when I first open and link them, but I've gotten used to it, so stopped thinking of it as a problem...

Naturally Digital

07-02-2019, 07:21 AM

I don't remember it having stopped forcing itself on top. Maybe it did for a while, but it's such a common thing to me to have to click on a programs icon in the taskbar multiple times to get it to come up on top of SAW, that I've stopped thinking about it. There's weirdness, still/too between SAW and SAC, when I first open and link them, but I've gotten used to it, so stopped thinking of it as a problem...Yes, I've noticed the same thing when using the SAW/SAC combo.

It's not stopped forcing itself on top in 10 years, but there once was a time when it didn't do so. If that makes sense. :)

If you read back in this old thread I dug up, there are comments about it 'having recently changed'. I may be able to find another thread where it's discussed or perhaps find it in the release notes if I look hard enough.

Since it was discussed in this thread and all parties were quite aware of it, I figured it was enough to raise the question again and get this back on the radar.

UpTilDawn

07-02-2019, 09:51 AM

Yes, I've noticed the same thing when using the SAW/SAC combo.

It's not stopped forcing itself on top in 10 years, but there once was a time when it didn't do so. If that makes sense. :)

If you read back in this old thread I dug up, there are comments about it 'having recently changed'. I may be able to find another thread where it's discussed or perhaps find it in the release notes if I look hard enough.

Since it was discussed in this thread and all parties were quite aware of it, I figured it was enough to raise the question again and get this back on the radar.

I do remember when it changed - I was the OP of this thread.

mr_es335

07-02-2019, 11:08 AM

UpTilDawn

07-02-2019, 12:43 PM

Good day,

Here is my take on the situation: [Click_me] (www.sentinelmusicstudios.com/ftp/text/Alt_Tab_and_Windows_Focusing.pdf)

All of these tests were performed using the available SAWStudio versions that I have, as well as being tested on three different systems - two with Windows 7 and one with Windows 10. All demonstrated the same end results.

And here is the summary:
1. It would appear from the above tests then that the 32-bit versions 4.0c, 4.4, 5.0 and 5.1 had no issues - and therefore, functioned properly.
2. 32-bit versions 5.4, 5.6, 5.7 and 5.8 all had the same identical anomaly as v4.9.
3. All of the 64-bit versions had the same identical anomaly as v4.9.

I sincerely hope that this information will be of some practicable use to others.

I've used all 32 bit versions since I first got into SAW and then later on, SAC many years ago.
I've also experienced the same issues (whenever I take notice of them) on first 3-4 different XP systems and at least as many Win7 systems (over the course of this time). I have updated/upgraded both SAW and SAC all along.

I don't know when, if at all, I'd have the time to go back and install/test every saved version I still have. There have been so many tweaks and enhancements over this time, what really seems relevant to me is what the current version (or maybe since 5.x) is doing. Maybe Bob will find this helpful, though.

Naturally Digital

07-02-2019, 04:09 PM

I do remember when it changed - I was the OP of this thread.Of course you were! LOL :D

Well, yeah... I guess I didn't know how to interpret your comment:

I don't remember it having stopped forcing itself on top.

In the context of my remarks, because I wasn't aware of it having stopped at any point either. Now, Dell's test seems to indicate it did... Perhaps not surprising, I remember discussions on the forum and misunderstandings about what people's real issues were at the time. Maybe MS Windows' own behavior changed along the way, or else the switch from XP to Win7... Who knows.

Now I understand what you were getting at. :)

Naturally Digital

07-02-2019, 04:24 PM

There have been so many tweaks and enhancements over this time, what really seems relevant to me is what the current version (or maybe since 5.x) is doing.That's what seems relevant to me also.

IMO there was plenty of debate 10 years ago about whether this tweak should even happen at all. I'm hoping it's a simple matter of removing whatever was done at the time.

Naturally Digital

07-02-2019, 07:15 PM

And here is the summary:
1. It would appear from the above tests then that the 32-bit versions 4.0c, 4.4, 5.0 and 5.1 had no issues - and therefore, functioned properly.
2. 32-bit versions 5.4, 5.6, 5.7 and 5.8 all had the same identical anomaly as v4.9.
3. All of the 64-bit versions had the same identical anomaly as v4.9.I did a quick skim of the release notes and found mention of something relevant in 5.2, 5.0, 4.9a, 4.7 (maybe), 4.5 and 4.0b. (I think I started with v5.3)

Those release notes mention changes re: switching between applications or window focus etc. This may explain why some versions seem OK and others not.

The 4.0b is the change that concerns the Windows taskbar... (I think that's the one I'm remembering.)

It's a bit of a complex issue afterall. :rolleyes: