Xmas Sale - SAW versions

[IraSeigel]

Hello Bob,
Thanks for offering the holiday discounts. Great news!

I hadn't been to the SawStudioStore page in awhile. I must say I'm rather surprised that, in the short feature list for the 3 versions of SAWStudio, you still haven't listed the SAW-SAC Link as a noteworthy feature of Full and Lite. I've mentioned this before: to my mind, the link is an important feature that is easily overlooked when considering a purchase of Basic. You should mention it more prominently in the features lists and comparison chart.

Regards,
Ira

[Bob L]

I'll mark that down.

Bob L

[Warren]

Hello Bob,
Thanks for offering the holiday discounts. Great news!

I hadn't been to the SawStudioStore page in awhile. I must say I'm rather surprised that, in the short feature list for the 3 versions of SAWStudio, you still haven't listed the SAW-SAC Link as a noteworthy feature of Full and Lite. I've mentioned this before: to my mind, the link is an important feature that is easily overlooked when considering a purchase of Basic. You should mention it more prominently in the features lists and comparison chart.

Regards,
Ira

Trying to make points with Santa during the Christmas season Ira? :D

[IraSeigel]

Trying to make points with Santa during the Christmas season Ira? :D

Um, er, well no, not really. Just trying to point out that some very important info remains well-hidden.

Besides, in the immortal words of Mel Brooks, "We don't need no steenking points". But an EXTRA 10***37; off wouldn't suck!! :)

Happy Holidays,
Ira

[JensSkov]

Thanks a lot for pointing that out Ira!! I was about to buy Basic with SAC :-)
I guess I'll have to dig deeper in my pocket now and get Lite.

I might be pushing it... but is Bob known to give discounts when buying multiple products?

[IraSeigel]

Thanks a lot for pointing that out Ira!! I was about to buy Basic with SAC :-)
I guess I'll have to dig deeper in my pocket now and get Lite.

I might be pushing it... but is Bob known to give discounts when buying multiple products?

Hi Jens,
If you can envision doing any multitracking at all during shows, you might as well get Lite now, as you'll probably be wanting to upgrade from Basic soon anyway. Now seems to be a good time, with Bob's holiday discount. (I think this is the first time this year he's offered a discount, if memory serves.) But maybe Private Message him and see if he'll negotiate for both SAC and Lite. Good luck. Welcome.

Ira

[Cary B. Cornett]

Thanks a lot for pointing that out Ira!! I was about to buy Basic with SAC :-)
I guess I'll have to dig deeper in my pocket now and get Lite. It might interest you to know that it is possible to do live show mixes with SawStudioLite. I ran some shows that way a couple of years ago. Of course, you don't have all of the mix features of SAC that way.

There are a couple of caveats, however. The SAC engine is faster because it does not have to deal with recording tasks. Mixing live with SSLite requires you to be more careful about what plugins you use (must avoid any that cause latency), and there are certain operations for which you must stop the mix engine (PA goes dead, folks on stage wonder why). I only worked it out OK because we used SSLite early on in rehearsals, giving us time to work the bugs out ("bugs" in this case meaning operator errors).

IOW, if you are careful you can use SSLite alone to both record and mix live PA at the same time, but you have to know what not to do :):p:eek::rolleyes:

If I was starting out setting up a live road rig, had to record the shows, and budget was tight, I would get SSLite first, then add SAC when I could afford it. (Again, can be done, but requires great care to avoid screwups.)

HTH

[IraSeigel]

...
If I was starting out setting up a live road rig, had to record the shows, and budget was tight, I would get SSLite first, then add SAC when I could afford it. (Again, can be done, but requires great care to avoid screwups.)

HTH

In my opinion, I'd recommend just the opposite.

:)
Ira

[Iain Westland]

Cary was pointing out that if you want a multitrack recording of the show then lite in live mode will do it, and its as quick as SAC to boot. Its only when you start to throw vst's etc at it or need more than 6 monitors (Aux sends in lite) that the differences really show.

I recorded a few gigs using both lite and full taking the sound in and passing it straight out.

you cant do that with sac.

first call lite, then sac to really blow the comp

iain;):)

[Angie]

In my opinion, I'd recommend just the opposite.

:)
Ira

I would also.

[Iain Westland]

but he could not record the gig as a multi track Angie, only a sterio type of mix. With lite he could run a basic gig plus record it.

horses n courses I suppose, but financially he will get SAC for free by taking lite now at full price with the xmas discount

lite $1200
SAC $500

tot $1700
-30% $ 509

now for a lie down

iain

[Angie]

but he could not record the gig as a multi track Angie, only a sterio type of mix. With lite he could run a basic gig plus record it.

True. He hasn't jumped in to verify his actual need.


horses n courses I suppose, but financially he will get SAC for free by taking lite now at full price with the xmas discount

When you look at it that way... If he has the funds now, it would be a no brainer.

[IraSeigel]

Trying to do both at once, at first - mixing and recording - is, to me, a huge undertaking. Mixing a show live is the crux of the issue. He can use Tape-It or another VST to record stereo. Then, when he's got his mixing in-the-box chops together, then record multitrack. Trying to get tracks down is only worthwhile when you can mix FOH and monitors competently.

[Iain Westland]

nah, SAW will sit happily in the background. Assign inputs to post attenuator and hit record, SAW part finished. Then play as you want with SAC and have a multi track to mix after the fact.

really no hassle, and if you have the funds then it really is the time to take a big step.

iain

[IraSeigel]

nah, SAW will sit happily in the background. Assign inputs to post attenuator and hit record, SAW part finished. Then play as you want with SAC and have a multi track to mix after the fact.

really no hassle, and if you have the funds then it really is the time to take a big step.

iain

So Iain, I think what you're sggesting is that he get both now, using the discount? Um, I'm not sure that was his question. Maybe I've lost the train of thought here. If he had the funds to do both, well then, sure. As i suggested, maybe Bob would be willing to negotiate with him via PM. But if he could only afford one at first, my recommendation would be SAC, for the reasons mentioned previously

[ambler]

really no hassle, and if you have the funds then it really is the time to take a big step.

iain

Cary suggested getting SAW first and SAC later if funds were tight and Ira recommended the other way around. That's what's being debated here isn't it?

I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that both is the best option if you can afford it.

Mark

[Cary B. Cornett]

Trying to do both at once, at first - mixing and recording - is, to me, a huge undertaking. Mixing a show live is the crux of the issue. When I used SSLite a few years ago to handle live sound for a couple of musical theater shows, we did MT recordings at the same time. We set the MT tap-off ahead of processing so that the MT recording would not be affected by the mix. Once you start the recording, all of your attention can go to the live mix where it belongs.

The only "adjustment" you should be concerned with for the recording is setting the preamp gains so nothing goes "splat". You would need to do the same for the live mix anyway, so even that is not an added burden. Not to mention the fact that the record level meters are the easiest way to watch for input overloads on multiple channels.

We were, of course, quite conservative about processing when we did this. We stuck with the built-in console eq's and dynamics processing. The only EQ plugin we used was the "Paragraphic" one that is included with SS, and the only dynamics plugin we used was Levelizer (without the limiter): even then it was only for output channels.

I definitely agree that, if the money is available, getting both SAW and SAC is the best way to go (I don't have SAC.... yet). My understanding is that the SAC engine is, in fact, a bit faster than the one for SAW. Also, IIRC SAC lets you assign channels "on the fly", whereas SAW forces you to shut down the engine for that (and a few other things). Again, when we were running live mixes with SSLite, we had to make sure we had all of our routing set up in advance, because once the show started no routing changes could be made.

[IraSeigel]

When I used SSLite a few years ago to handle live sound for a couple of musical theater shows, we did MT recordings at the same time. ....

Hi Cary,
Were you new to SSLite at the time, or were you an experienced user by that point? Also, were you comfortable mixing "in the box", or were you just getting the hang of it?

Ira

[Cary B. Cornett]

Hi Cary,
Were you new to SSLite at the time, or were you an experienced user by that point? Also, were you comfortable mixing "in the box", or were you just getting the hang of it?

Ira I was pretty comfortable with SSLite by then. I was fully committed to mixing ITB before I was able to upgrade from Pro to Studio, so once I had SSLite I never mixed in the studio any other way. However, for the two theater productions that I worked sound before we went ITB, we used the regular analog mixers that were available (not big, nor fancy). I was very nervous the first time we fired up SSLite for the live mix during rehearsals, half expecting to go back to the analog board by showtime. Just before "hell week", my son and I conferred about which way to go (I had him actually running most of the mix) and he opined that we should keep the computer in, so we did.

We did use one Behringer BCF2000 fader pack, which definitely earned its keep (the need to move quickly around channels for muting and such made "mousing" the mix not practical). In fact, I took care of dynamics adjustments and EQ tweaks with the trackball, while he handled levels and mutes with the fader pack.

I would not recommend going in "cold" to run a live performance mix using SSLite, because until you memorize the list of "don't do that's", you WILL get "bit" a few times. We certainly did, but we made sure to get through all that during rehearsals.

As I have said several times before, after the clarity of the mix we got with SS, we never thought about using the "old" analog mixer again. Of course, having all those compressors, gates, and EQ's didn't exactly hurt... :cool:

[IraSeigel]

I was pretty comfortable with SSLite by then. I was fully committed to mixing ITB ...

I would not recommend going in "cold" to run a live performance mix using SSLite, because until you memorize the list of "don't do that's", you WILL get "bit" a few times. .... :cool:

All good points, Cary. As Jens - asking the original question - is a newcomer to both SAC and SAW, that's why I recommended that he consider SAC first, if his funds were limited.

There is definitely a learning curve to both, and Bob's way of implementing his DAW is "non-standard", as has been discussed here before:). SAC is more easily accessible for a newbie. Jens said he wanted to mix shows and also record them. The live mix should be his first priority. You can always record another show, if something didn't go right. You can't retake a concert, so your attention needs to be on FOH and no feedback in the monitors.

Ira