VST Problems in 2.3

[hclague]

Hi All

Anybody else having VST problems in 2.3 yet? So far:

KarmaFX Equaliser loads but updates made on the remote do not propogate to the host, even though the message says it did. Also, changes on the host do not show up on the remote when the plugin is opened.

SAC Remote crashes upon "sync up" if I have Reverberate LE loaded on an Aux on the Host. SIR2 works fine.

Loading some scenes form the remote that change VST Plugins in Auxes sometimes crash the Remote, though the Scene load did occur on the Host ( this happened on a scene that loads a Waves API 2500 Compressor to the Main Out Pre )

When engaging the Tap tempo on a Native SAC Delay on the remote, The green lights on the Host view do not illuminate. The Tap tempo does work correctly though.

The TC M30 Reverb Plugin does not seem to work with the remote controll protocol.

If anybody else has any of these and is able to get the remote control working please share and shed some light.

I will do more testing tomorrow.

Hal

[gdougherty]

Hi All

Anybody else having VST problems in 2.3 yet? So far:

KarmaFX Equaliser loads but updates made on the remote do not propogate to the host, even though the message says it did. Also, changes on the host do not show up on the remote when the plugin is opened.

SAC Remote crashes upon "sync up" if I have Reverberate LE loaded on an Aux on the Host. SIR2 works fine.

Loading some scenes form the remote that change VST Plugins in Auxes sometimes crash the Remote, though the Scene load did occur on the Host ( this happened on a scene that loads a Waves API 2500 Compressor to the Main Out Pre )

When engaging the Tap tempo on a Native SAC Delay on the remote, The green lights on the Host view do not illuminate. The Tap tempo does work correctly though.

The TC M30 Reverb Plugin does not seem to work with the remote controll protocol.

If anybody else has any of these and is able to get the remote control working please share and shed some light.

I will do more testing tomorrow.

Hal

I found the reverberate crash issue as well, though SACRemote worked fine as long as I don't have the plugin in the sacremote folder. Also saw the delay tap light issue as well. That may be by design since it doesn't recall its state between sessions or runnings of SAC.

Remote VST is semi-functional IMO. Like the previous plugin recommendations, I'd do lots of testing on anything you use.

[Bob L]

The echo tap only displays on the plugin being tapped... no need to pass that display data across the network...

Bob L

[hclague]

The echo tap only displays on the plugin being tapped... no need to pass that display data across the network...

Bob L

Got it. Makes sense.

Hal

[Angie]

Loopazoid doesn't work.

[Bob L]

If you mean you cannot press buttons and trigger from the remote in Loopazoid... that is to be expected... there is no direct remote connection across the network for individual interface details on vst plugs... they are working simply by adjusting settings on the remote and updating the current interface data across to the host as a preset in the background... momentary button triggers will not qualify as a changed setting in a preset.

This remote concept is very complex and each plugin will have to be made completely aware of the internal SAC network protocol for handling all nuances of plugin controls... each one requiring specific coding... that is what has taken me so long, getting this update out the door.

Bob L

[dbarrow]

If you mean you cannot press buttons and trigger from the remote in Loopazoid... that is to be expected... there is no direct remote connection across the network for individual interface details on vst plugs... they are working simply by adjusting settings on the remote and updating the current interface data across to the host as a preset in the background... momentary button triggers will not qualify as a changed setting in a preset.

This remote concept is very complex and each plugin will have to be made completely aware of the internal SAC network protocol for handling all nuances of plugin controls... each one requiring specific coding... that is what has taken me so long, getting this update out the door.

Bob L
Wouldn't it be great if plugin developers incorporated the extra code into their plugins to make them SAC aware? They could even have tests and traps built in, so that it didn't cause problems with other hosts. If just a few companies did this, it might start a new era of software-based remote mixing.

I can dream, can't I?

[DominicPerry]

Wouldn't it be great if plugin developers incorporated the extra code into their plugins to make them SAC aware? They could even have tests and traps built in, so that it didn't cause problems with other hosts. If just a few companies did this, it might start a new era of software-based remote mixing.

I can dream, can't I?

Write to everyone who makes a plugin which doesn't do this. Everybody should, everytime they find a plug which they want to use which they can't. Eventually, things will start to move.

Dominic

[dbarrow]

Write to everyone who makes a plugin which doesn't do this. Everybody should, everytime they find a plug which they want to use which they can't. Eventually, things will start to move.

DominicThat would be all plugin developers except Bob. I'll get started...

[hclague]

Wouldn't it be great if plugin developers incorporated the extra code into their plugins to make them SAC aware? They could even have tests and traps built in, so that it didn't cause problems with other hosts. If just a few companies did this, it might start a new era of software-based remote mixing.

I can dream, can't I?

How about SAC becoming such an industry standard that Plugin developers are forced to code them as such. That's what I'd like to see.

Hal

[gdougherty]

Electri-Q (posihofpit edition) updates fine from the host to the remote but the remote shows an error in SAC "Incorrect preset format." After that I can't seem to get the host data to sync back to the remote. Even after clearing the plugin and adding a new instance. I open it on the host, modify the curve then close it and open the plugin on the host.

I'll leave this for the benefit of others. Apparently things work differently with the engine live vs disabled. I can update and everything works fine if the engine is live. The above problem occurs only if the engine is not live. The Kjearhus Classic plugins work fine with the engine live or not.

Second update. Apparently it wasn't an issue of the live engine or not. Things get mildly confused when I add several plugins. The first plugin I add works fine with no problems. I can leave things open on the host and see the updates immediately reflected in the GUI. The second plugin added on a channel doesn't error but will not reflect changes on the host GUI, even with the GUI closed and reopened. I'm testing this with known good plugins that work fine when I add them as the first plugin. The third plugin then complains about an incorrect plugin format. I'm adding these on the same post fade fx chain for an input channel.
This also seems to cause issues based on the number of plugins overall, rather than just on a channel and for some reason, plugins that are loaded with the session seem to be okay. I'm loading 3 output channels with the Dual Linkwitz-Riley filters on them in the session but I have problems if I add more than 1 more once the session is open. I'll play around with things later this evening and start with a 100***37; barebones mix configuration to verify exactly where I'm running into problems.

[gdougherty]

Followup on Reverberate. The LE and full version both crash SACRemote. The engine must be live and all I have to do is select the channel as the hot channel.

[hclague]

Electri-Q (posihofpit edition) updates fine from the host to the remote but the remote shows an error in SAC "Incorrect preset format." After that I can't seem to get the host data to sync back to the remote. Even after clearing the plugin and adding a new instance. I open it on the host, modify the curve then close it and open the plugin on the host.

I'll leave this for the benefit of others. Apparently things work differently with the engine live vs disabled. I can update and everything works fine if the engine is live. The above problem occurs only if the engine is not live. The Kjearhus Classic plugins work fine with the engine live or not.

Second update. Apparently it wasn't an issue of the live engine or not. Things get mildly confused when I add several plugins. The first plugin I add works fine with no problems. I can leave things open on the host and see the updates immediately reflected in the GUI. The second plugin added on a channel doesn't error but will not reflect changes on the host GUI, even with the GUI closed and reopened. I'm testing this with known good plugins that work fine when I add them as the first plugin. The third plugin then complains about an incorrect plugin format. I'm adding these on the same post fade fx chain for an input channel.
This also seems to cause issues based on the number of plugins overall, rather than just on a channel and for some reason, plugins that are loaded with the session seem to be okay. I'm loading 3 output channels with the Dual Linkwitz-Riley filters on them in the session but I have problems if I add more than 1 more once the session is open. I'll play around with things later this evening and start with a 100% barebones mix configuration to verify exactly where I'm running into problems.

Wow George, I was just logging in to report on this and saw your post!

Anyway, My experience is similar, Seems If I have certain VST Plugins loaded on the Host and then start the Remote, the remote sync's up and and can control the plugin. BUT if I remove the plugin via either the Host or the Remote, then add it back in, I get the same thing George posted about above.(i.e. "Incorrect Preset format" error message ) and I can't control the plugin any longer.

This happened using the Karma FX EQ plugin and another EQ plugin called EQ31.dll

I believe it also happened with Waves plugins but I want to verify.

Hal

[gdougherty]

Wow George, I was just logging in to report on this and saw your post!

Anyway, My experience is similar, Seems If I have certain VST Plugins loaded on the Host and then start the Remote, the remote sync's up and and can control the plugin. BUT if I remove the plugin via either the Host or the Remote, then add it back in, I get the same thing George posted about above.(i.e. "Incorrect Preset format" error message ) and I can't control the plugin any longer.

This happened using the Karma FX EQ plugin and another EQ plugin called EQ31.dll

I believe it also happened with Waves plugins but I want to verify.

Hal

Now the fun part. Starting from a scratch session in SAC with absolutely nothing patched anywhere has gotten me 6 different working plugins with no problems and 10 instances of the Dual LR filter all with no problems.

I did manage to have SAC crash somehow though while I was trying to build my output setup from scratch and I removed a VST EQ plugin with the GUI open while operating on the host. This was after recalling some channel presets over 3 output channels and modifying them to my current config.

All of my problems seem to involve a pre-2.3 set of presets though. Either already stored within a session or plugins recalled into 2.2 basic session.

Starting everything from scratch with 2.3 seems to work with no problems. So far I've created a rough aproximation of my 3 output church install from scratch, saved it, reopened it and started adding plugins without problems. I've got 6 on a single channel and everything works transfering settings back to the host. No crashes, no issues. I'd hate to spend all the time, but scratch building things may be the way to go in the short run. Hal, or anyone else, can you give that a shot?

[Leadfoot]

Didn't Bob start this off by saying 2.3 is not backwards compatible.. I'm probably missing something, but wouldn't that explain all this?

[905shmick]

Didn't Bob start this off by saying 2.3 is not backwards compatible.. I'm probably missing something, but wouldn't that explain all this?

SAC v2.3 is backwards compatible - meaning it can load a mix session from v2.2 and earlier. SAC v2.2 and earlier will not work properly with a mix session from v2.3 and newer, so these versions are not backwards compatible with newer releases of SAC.

The issue is that while v2.3 can open a v2.2 mix session, some people are having problems with SACRemote and plugins that were configured and saved as part of a v2.2 mix session while using v2.3.

[Bob L]

I figured as much... these vst plugs can be tricky to deal with... there is so much variation between them...

In the end... there may only be a small handful that will behave when attempting to use them on the remote... I am continuing to look into ways to handle this...

The issue is that many will depend on a live engine passing data... and the remote does not do that... so... I may have to look further into faking out the plugs on the remote to think thay are getting data in a live environment.

In the meantime... enjoy what works... including the native plugs... and hang in there.

Bob L

[Angie]

In the meantime... enjoy what works... including the native plugs


Which, of course, work great!