Mixing down live shows

[mojogil]

I've started mixing some of our live multi track shows, mostly for ourselves to listen to and make improvements. I have them segmented into 4 sets. I'm not spending tons of hours editing all of the songs but rather just trying to get a decent blend and spread of the band along with some dynamics and verb. Here's my question:
Is it better to do a mixdown of the whole set and then split the wav into tracks for CD, or is it better to split the tracks first and process them individually?
Thanks,
Gil

[Mark Stebbeds]

Here's my question:
Is it better to do a mixdown of the whole set and then split the wav into tracks for CD, or is it better to split the tracks first and process them individually?


Most people would split them first to keep the sessions manageable in size ....and easier to move around the interface.

You might want to investigate how to use a 'template' or 'snapshot' of one song to keep your basic levels similar on all of the songs.

Mark

[Bob L]

Yes... I agree... splitting the individual songs into their own folders and working that way keeps things more managable.

Each song can then have its own starting settings and automation changes without involving complications carried over from the last song.

After taking the time to setup the mix details of the first song, then create a mix template... and apply that to the other songs to get started.

Now adjust specific details for that song... each one will be different based on the type of song and arrangements... but the starting template will workout well since they all came from the same essential session setup.

Then mixdown each song into its own wav file... and then you can create a final edl with all the mix files laid out on individual tracks... and it becomes easy to then finalize and balance things from one song to the next as they all play back to back.

Bob L

[UpTilDawn]

When doing quick references mixes to give to our band director, I'll often get a rough, overall blend of the tracks all in the same edl. Then I'll do one of two things to address the individual songs:

1- Rough mix of the first song and build mix to new soundfile, then quickly make new adjustments for the next song and build mix of just that song to a new soundfile (keeping all the new .wav files in a common folder, of course). Use B/E marked areas to define each new song when building the mix file. Continue down the timeline until I've roughed and mixed each song, disregarding any changes to the mix I began with, or saving that first set of adjustments as a mix template for later use... or even each set of new changes as its own mix template.

2- Rough mix each song similar to method one, but with the added step of cutting/dragging any trouble segments into free channels and making adjustments to blend those segments without disturbing the overall rest of the mix. I only do this with solos and very abrubt changes in volume along the timeline, generally.

This method has worked very well for me to quickly throw together rough mixes without the extra steps of separating songs and using automation. It's especially timesaving when I know that I will be cleaning up the tracks from concert recordings to get rid of dead space and unused tracks to trim down the session size before getting serious about the mix.

DanT

[Chris Kress]

This guy gets paid to mix.. +1 I would say to do it as he says, unless you are --really-- good at maintaining the automation. I mean ------ reallly ------ good.. The offset mode is your best friend or your worst enemy........................................

Here are other thoughts...
http://www.sawstudiouser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9297


When doing quick references mixes to give to our band director, I'll often get a rough, overall blend of the tracks all in the same edl. Then I'll do one of two things to address the individual songs:

1- Rough mix of the first song and build mix to new soundfile, then quickly make new adjustments for the next song and build mix of just that song to a new soundfile (keeping all the new .wav files in a common folder, of course). Use B/E marked areas to define each new song when building the mix file. Continue down the timeline until I've roughed and mixed each song, disregarding any changes to the mix I began with, or saving that first set of adjustments as a mix template for later use... or even each set of new changes as its own mix template.

2- Rough mix each song similar to method one, but with the added step of cutting/dragging any trouble segments into free channels and making adjustments to blend those segments without disturbing the overall rest of the mix. I only do this with solos and very abrubt changes in volume along the timeline, generally.

This method has worked very well for me to quickly throw together rough mixes without the extra steps of separating songs and using automation. It's especially timesaving when I know that I will be cleaning up the tracks from concert recordings to get rid of dead space and unused tracks to trim down the session size before getting serious about the mix.

DanT

[Mark Stebbeds]

This guy gets paid to mix.. +1 I would say to do it as he says, unless you are --really-- good at maintaining the automation. I mean ------ reallly ------ good..

What if you're like ...good ...but not really good ..or maybe just sort of good ...or maybe not good at all. How do we know whether or not to do as he says? Or what if the thread has nothing to do with automation?

Get a room.

Mark

[Chris Kress]

What if you're like ...good ...but not really good ..or maybe just sort of good ...or maybe not good at all. How do we know whether or not to do as he says? Or what if the thread has nothing to do with automation? Mark

I might have been able to be more concise:

I would say to do it as he says
UpTilDawn is not using automation. His post describes exactly what you should do. It is great advice, and very fast Try it, and then ask questions if you get hung up.

I think UpTilDawn would have you start will the entire show in one Sawtudio project though.. (not 4 sets each in their own .edl) If you can get a basic mix that sounds pretty good on -all- of the songs, then you can start in the manner that was described...

[Mark Stebbeds]

UpTilDawn is not using automation. His post describes exactly what you should do. It is great advice, and very fast
<snip>
I think UpTilDawn would have you start will the entire show in one Sawtudio project though.. .

His post describes one of many different options.

The popular approach is to split the session into individual songs in individual folders for better file management and workspace efficiency. As Bob described, the basic settings can be carried over to the next songs.

Mark

[Chris Kress]

...I'm not spending tons of hours editing all of the songs but rather just trying to get a decent blend and spread of the band along with some dynamics and verb.

It seems like you want a simple mix. If you do what UpTilDawn suggests, you can probably finish one hour of live music mixing in 2-3 hours. If you split each song into it's own .edl it will take longer (possibly days to comlete all mixing). Splitting them up does make it easier to manage more precise tweaking of each song --if-- that is what you want. So do you want to spend days or hours on this job?

[Mark Stebbeds]

If you split each song into it's own .edl it will take longer (possibly days to comlete all mixing). Splitting them up does make it easier to manage more precise tweaking of each song --if-- that is what you want. So do you want to spend days or hours on this job?

To suggest that it would take days to mix instead of hours if you split the session up is ridiculous.

I probably know less about splitting sessions than anyone here, but after about 5 minutes reading the help file and a couple of minutes of trial and error, I was able to split one session into five sessions in just a few minutes.

Anyone who has more than five minutes experience can probably do it faster and more efficiently that I did.

Mark

[Bob L]

Splitting the session into separate songs and mixing does not take days... its generally a few minutes a song for 30-48 track recordings.

Once split... you can tweak the first song, and then instantly apply that mix template to the rest... if you were going to try for a single general mix across 4 sets... then you are done... but, my guess is that a rock song and a ballad will require tweaks for many instruments in order to balnce well in even a quick mix... so you can now handle each song differently very easily... without even needing to explore automation since each song is independent of the others.

But... heh... you can do it any way you like... however... results may vary. :)

Bob L

[mojogil]

I like the idea of splitting the songs. You only have to do it once and then you have a lot of options from there on.
Thanks for all of the great thoughts.
Gil

[Haysus]

Newby here not quite getting it.

I did my first live MT this past Friday. I spent some time watching Bob's videos and found them very helpful. I have also read the manual multiple times. I'm still not understanding how to get the individual songs separated from the original EDL. So far I have 1 set approximately 1 hour long as a test to get familiar with the program. Sorry if this is trivial but I'm used to programs like Adobe that uses terms like "cut,copy,paste".

Thanks in advance.

[Bob L]

You can mark from beg to end of a song and then use the Extract Session function from the File menu... this will create a new session with new files for that song with the starting mix settings transfferred to the new edl... then you can open that song edl by itself and edit and mix away with no concerns about affecting the other stuff further down the timeline.

Bob L

[Haysus]

Which view do I have to use to mark the the song? Select, Aut, WAVE?
I'm starting to get the hang of it, but I'm working with powerful stuff here and not quite sure what tools I need for my specific jobs.
Thanks again.

[mixer100]

You don't have to use any of those. In your normal view, go to your start point and hit the "B" key. Now go to the end point and hit the "E" key. SAW will highlight everything in between those markers and then you do the "Bob" move in the file menu.
Ken

[Haysus]

Thanks.

[Dave Labrecque]

But, remember, you mark different things in different modes. If you are trying to mark the song, have the 'wave' on, but turn off the 'Select' and 'Aut'omation buttons.

Truth be told, I don't think the mode matters. What you mark is what will be processed regardless of mode. If you're going to try to move something with a drag, then that's a different matter.