at the doorstep of 2005: Sonoris Meter released!

[PieterS]

Hello,

At the doorstep of 2005... I'd like to inform you that the Sonoris Meter for SAWStudio is released.

With this plugin, you can accurately measure peak and loudness levels of audio signals, at one scale. The measurement system is the K-System, from Bob Katz, mastering engineer and founder of Digido mastering studio. During the development period of this plugin Bob Katz was very helpful in providing information. The end product closely follows the K-system specifications.
I think the K-system metering is a very good candidate to become the new metering standard. It gets adopted more and more by hard and software manufacturers. It can help you to produce more consistent levels in your productions and give a good visual clue on peak to average levels.

http://www.sonoris.nl/sawstudio/smtr10.jpg

Specs:

- Closely follows the K-System, with three metering sets:
- K12 for broadcast productions.
- K14 for home theatre, pop, rock, folk, etc.
- K20 for wide dynamic music.
- High resolution metering of peak and loudness levels, on the same scale.
- Peakhold function with resetable values or,
- 10 seconds hold of last maximum values.
- Loudness measurement methods: RMS/flat (AES-17) and Leq(A-weighted).
- Pink noise output (left, right or stereo) for monitor calibration of 0dBr / 83dB. 20Hz - 20Khz bandlimited noise
- Adjustable number of consecutive overs before clipping.
- Resetable clipping indicators.
- Resetable clipping incident counters.
- all samplerates supported.
- low CPU load.
- settings can be saved.
- 64 bit resolution.
- All settings are automatable in SAWStudio

The Leq(A) loudness measurement method is the first implementation in a K-meter ever! In practice, you see a nice and slow meter, that takes some time to get used to, but it does translate the loudness very well in my opinion.

Thanks goes to the betatesters Jon Ketcham (SoundSuite) and Steve Berson (Totalsonic) and also to Yura Oransky who made the graphics. It was a nice international project!

Please take a look at:

http://www.sonoris.nl/nl/plugins.asp

you can download a demo version there.

regards,

Pieter Stenekes

[bertie]

Hi Pieter, :)

Nice plug-in :)

Q: Is this plug-in intended to work only in Post FX Patch?

The reason i'm asking this is because when i use it in Pre Fx Patch and when the track is active i move SAWStudio's fader up and down but in the plugin the light meter doesn't follow the fader movements up/down....but in the Post FX patch the plugin works great :)

Thanks,

Bertie,

[Mountain Media]

Q: Is this plug-in intended to work only in Post FX Patch?

The reason i'm asking this is because when i use it in Pre Fx Patch and when the track is active i move SAWStudio's fader up and down but in the plugin the light meter doesn't follow the fader movements up/down....but in the Post FX patch the plugin works great :) Since 'Pre Fader' FX are connected before the Fader, I would hope there are no plug-ins connected Pre Fader that would show output Post Fader. If there are, I sure would like to know which ones do! :)

Pieter, nice meter. I'm really interested -- now, just gotta find monitor real-estate for it (here comes the 21", I guess -- ;) )!! On a 'quick-check' the selectable number of 'over' samples (clips) and the accumulated total of overs work well. They are things that may help with several requests/concerns folks have had, which have been posted on this forum.

[bertie]

Ha ha ha...... :)

I've got you, didn't I? :)

New Year's Joke :) :D

Happy New Year :)

Bertie,

[TotalSonic]

As a beta tester for this plugin I can state one thing:
For anyone looking for the ULTIMATE output meter - THIS IS IT!

Initially I wasn't so enthusiastic because I have so many meters in the studio, both physical (both peak LED's & VU's by NPT & Neumann & Neve), and virtual (obviously the great ones that are already in SAW, the old IQS SAWPro meter, the SAW Utility Pack meter by Kelly Industries, Elemental Audio's Investigator) - but this one's size, flexibility, and response makes it a MUST HAVE if you're looking to truly get the best idea of your average levels, and the very handy peak and overs counter is fantastic to have.

cpu useage was only approx 1% on my 2.8GHz P4 for a single instance. Works great whether patched pre or post fader on input or output tracks. No problems whatsoever working with 96kHz stuff either in my tests.

A big thanks to Pieter for creating some amazing stuff for us SAWyers!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[SoundSuite]

*applause*

Even though this metering plugin is primarily built for those that want to follow the K-X spec, the value it represents to anyone that just wants big, easy to read peak and rms output meters in the same interface on a high resolution monitor is still overwhelming.

No more squiniting...definately good stuff!

[AudioAstronomer]

awesome interface!

[Yura]

This is so splendid contribution to SAWstudio's environment!
Lets it to growwwwww!
to be continued!

[Carl G.]

As a beta tester for this plugin I can state one thing:
For anyone looking for the ULTIMATE output meter - THIS IS IT!
Best regards,
Steve Berson
Great looking! And awesome convenience!
Just one bothering thing.
On my system the Peak meter portion has a slight latency to the display (The displayed peaks are lagging just behind actual sound)... on a P4, 3ghz, 800mhz bus, 1 Gig Ram, Matrox 650. In contrast, the SawStudio meters catch the peaks with virtually no latency on the same track (with no plugins or patches).
Is that latency in the Sonoris meter to be expected? (It's really not bad at all...but not quite what I'd expect a fast acting Peak meter to be).

Carl

[Mountain Media]

Ha ha ha...... :)

I've got you, didn't I? :)

New Year's Joke :) :D

Happy New Year :)

Bertie,Yes, you certainly did!! :o I thought you might have started "celebrating" New Years early, and had just forgotten that the word 'Fader' followed Pre and Post!!

Here in USA we have April Fool's Day (April 01) jokes -- not New Year's Jokes!:)

Happy New Year to all -- may God bless all in 2005!!

[SoundSuite]

Great looking! And awesome convenience!
Just one bothering thing.
On my system the Peak meter portion has a slight latency to the display (The displayed peaks are lagging just behind actual sound)... on a P4, 3ghz, 800mhz bus, 1 Gig Ram, Matrox 650. In contrast, the SawStudio meters catch the peaks with virtually no latency on the same track (with no plugins or patches).
Is that latency in the Sonoris meter to be expected? (It's really not bad at all...but not quite what I'd expect a fast acting Peak meter to be).

Carl

Carl, there should not be any delayed response for the peak metering, only in RMS or LEQ displays will it not hit instantly.
My tests here ranged using buffer settings of 3x128 to 6x1024, all had a quick / expected peak display refresh.

The way the peak meters drop level on display after a peak is slower than Bob's 'instant' dropping of level display.
This slowed decay can play tricks on your eyes sometimes, especially when comparing A-B vs Bob's or all other instant refresh peaks, per se.

For example, a peak at +8dB followed by one at +7dB...If they are close enough, the second peak will not move the peak meter at all because it is on the way down to the peak's level.
In other words, all higher peaks should show instantly, any lower peaks may or may not tickle the peak meter, depending on the difference of level and time between.

When you don't 'see' a peak on the Sonoris Meter in this situation, but see it on Bob's, it will play mind games with your eyes.

Assuming it's not the illusion, you should not be having any noticable delay between the Sonoris and Bob's peaks hitting top at the same time.

Where did you patch it, etc, gimme some edl specs and I'll try to replicate it.

[Naturally Digital]

Beautiful!! Awesome! Awesome! Awesome!!! :) :) :)

Thank you Pieter, Yura, John and Steve (and Bob Katz too!)!! I love it.

All the best for 2005!
Dave.

[Carl G.]

Carl, there should not be any delayed response for the peak metering, only in RMS or LEQ displays will it not hit instantly.
My tests here ranged using buffer settings of 3x128 to 6x1024, all had a quick / expected peak display refresh.

I'm running 4x1024.
I noticed this on a Vocal Track patch (Not music tracks) where sharp consonants appear....like the start of a "P" in power, or the "T" at the ends of words. The sound is there and the peak meter is fractions of a second behind. Actually it was after I noticed it that I then compared it to Bob's.
I know what you mean about display decay time masking subsequent lower peaks which fall rapidly after higher peaks. That's a natural thing to happen. I'm talking about response (reaction time) to the highest first peaks.



Where did you patch it, etc, gimme some edl specs and I'll try to replicate it.
Ah Hah... maybe that's it! I patched it post (but pre Soundforge Compressor and Levelizer with Normalizing ON).... maybe there is a slight latency in that setup? If so... gosh this meter is _good_ to pick that up! Any guesses on that?
Carl

[SoundSuite]

The only way I can get the plugin to display the peaks out of sync from the SAW channel meter is:
If I patch Sonoris Meter in after any latent plug (tested using SIR), the Sonoris is behind the SAW channel peak display.
However, in this scenario the Sonoris is displayed on time with the music and the SAW channel meter is ahead.

I cannot get it to display SAW correctly with music and Sonoris delayed...so far it acts as it should here, but I do not have that particular plugin to test.

Maybe it's doing some latency adjusting and messing with the Sonoris.
Try removing all plugins one by one from the list and see when/if it syncs.

Also, even though the meter 'should' be the last in the chain, swap plugin orders for a test as well.

[Yura]

Ah Hah... maybe that's it! I patched it post (but pre Soundforge Compressor and Levelizer with Normalizing ON).... maybe there is a slight latency in that setup? If so... gosh this meter is _good_ to pick that up! Any guesses on that?
Carl

BTW, what SF compessor's name? Is it Wave Hammer compessor??

[PieterS]

Hello,

a Happy Newyear to everybody, and may all your wishes for 2005 come true!

Carl, about the latency issue:

I attached a little wav file to this post. It's a 1 sample spike. Please open SS fresh and add the file to the MT. Now be careful with your monitors!!!
Patch two Sonoris Meters, one pre- and one post fader to the channel with the spike and position the meters so that you can see them together with SAW's channel meter. Now play the file at low volume and watch the 3 meters. They should be all absolutely in sync! Now patch your plugs in between the Meters and do the test again. If this plugs should introduce any delay you should see a difference between the response of the two Sonoris meters, but, the postfader patched one should remain in sync with the channel meter. All this should be regardless of buffersettings.

I recommend to patch the meter allways as the last in row, except if you want to do A/B -ing or so.When patched as last, it also catches the overs properly!

please let me know what your findings are.

regards,

Pieter Stenekes

[Sebastian Eskildsen]

Hi Pieter

Thanks for that nice meter, and for share your and Bob Katz
idea about headroom.
I do have to read he´s text a couple of time, to make sure
I really undestand he´s K system.

And know a wich.
What about a Gouinjometer...I really don´t know have to spel
to it. But I am sure you know what I mean.

Sebastian

[PieterS]

Sebastian,

I'm sorry, but I don't know what a Gouinjometer is....

regards,

Pieter Stenekes

[Sebastian Eskildsen]

Ok, I did find a DK-audio manual, and in plain English it is a
audio vector oscilloscope (stereo image monitor).
Or take a look at www.dk-audio.com.

Sebastian

[Craig Allen]

Ok, I did find a DK-audio manual, and in plain English it is a
audio vector oscilloscope (stereo image monitor).
Or take a look at www.dk-audio.com.

Sebastian

brainspawn (http://www.brainspawn.com/) already has one for SAWStudio called Focus in their SpectR-Pro pack - see it at http://www.brainspawn.com/products/Focus/

[TotalSonic]

brainspawn (http://www.brainspawn.com/) already has one for SAWStudio called Focus in their SpectR-Pro pack - see it at http://www.brainspawn.com/products/Focus/

Also commonly known as a "phase correlation meter". Very valuable for being able to assess mono compatibility at a glance (vital for things like transfer to vinyl master). Brainspawn's "Focus" - and Spektr-Pro, the real time specturm analyzer it comes bundles with - both work great and are recommended.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Sebastian Eskildsen]

I know brainspawn make one and also others, I must admit
the only one I have seen working the way I like it, is one
from VB software. The only problem with VB software is, that they
use usb dongles.

After I have seen Pieters work, I am sure he can make a "pro" one. :)

Sebastian

[Naturally Digital]

I know brainspawn make one and also others, I must admit
the only one I have seen working the way I like it, is one
from VB software. The only problem with VB software is, that they
use usb dongles.The VB one is my favorite also. Actually, I really like most of Vincent's plugs... except for that dongle issue. I've had my eye on the measure pack but with the new Sonoris Meter I don't have as much of a need anymore. I own the EQ, I've only demoed the others.

Since we're on the subject, his C10 is a pretty cool (and unique) plug.

He's recently redone his website. It's not as nice as the new SAWStudio site but it's pretty good nonetheless. ;)

www.vb-audio.com

Dave.

[AudioAstronomer]

On my way to go buy all Pietr's plugins now... woohoo :)

[SoundSuite]

I've had some work to do here lately that has taken away from my audio fun (coding a webapp in PHP), but I've pretty much finished it up and had the past day to get back into SAW and do some mixes.

The Sonoris Meters are freaking awesome.
I've been trying to follow the K14 standard for a few years now.
It was not impossible to follow in SAW before this plugin, but now, omg...just look at the pretty lights.

I was using Inspector for the RMS readouts previously and counting the hashes below peak.
It's a bit on the small side and true RMS is not 'perfect' for most of the music I mix/master.
Pieter's plugin, in addition to being much larger and easier on the eyes, uses LEQ or RMS.
LEQ works like butter on a biscuit for hard-rock with heavy guitars, etc.

Pieter also opened up the plugin to allow multiple instances...
I've been using 2 instances, one with RMS, and the other with LEQ, both on Post-fader Output.
I'm in heaven...peak, RMS and LEQ metering.

On another note:
In the solo of this one particular song, it starts as two guitars, then the right side drops out...sounded like #$%^.
I downloaded Pieter's MS demo, tested it on the trouble section of solo and boom, full again...gonna have to get this plugin too, to round out my collection of Sonoris goodies ;)

Thanks again, Pieter...good stuff!

[AudioAstronomer]

Just as a note for some reason shareit keeps timing out on me... is there another method one could use perhaps or?

Ive been trying most all day to get it to go through

[PieterS]

Robert,

There are sometimes problems with the ShareIt site. Can you tell me at what stage you get a timeout? If you have any information I can pass it on to ShareIt servicedesk, they respond very quickly.

regards,

Pieter

[AudioAstronomer]

After I hit buy on your site... I goto the page to login or fill in information. When I try to continue from there it freezes.


Also! Is there a way to add multiple items to my cart at once so I dont have to buy the plugins seperately?

[PieterS]

b.t.w.

SoundSuite is a bit modest about his php programming. He didn't told you he programmed a complete webadmin tool for me, that enables me to distribute my software online. It is similar to the system Bob uses and is also an enhancement for customers to download updates.
It feels so good that there are people willing to help and create marvelous things! The same is truth for Yura, he also helps me enormous with creating very good graphics for my plugs!
I'm glad I am a member of the SAWStudio community!

I like to do something in return for you all, so stay tuned! Real soon I release the Sonoris Leveler for free!

http://www.sonoris.nl/sawstudio/slev10.jpg

regards,

Pieter Stenekes

[PieterS]

Robert,

hold on, I pass your info to ShareIt and we'll see what they have to say!

Pieter

[PieterS]

Robert,

cart functionality is added to my purchase pages.

regards,

Pieter Stenekes

[mghtx]

Real soon I release the Sonoris Leveler for free!

WOW ! :)

[Naturally Digital]

I'm glad I am a member of the SAWStudio community!Pieter, *I'm* glad you're a member of the SAWStudio community also!! :)

I'm not sure what your work schedule is like, but I'll happily snatch up your plugins as fast as you can code them! ;)

And BTW: I don't mind paying for them... you've made the prices *very* reasonable.

Thank YOU for your contribution to the community.

Listen well,
Dave.

[Carlos Mills]

Hi Pieter,

I just bought your Meter Native Plug In... Thanks for your great contributions. Would you share with us the method you used to calibrate your monitors?

Thanks again and best regards,

[AudioAstronomer]

Im still having some trouble... Im going to try on another computer sometime tonight probabaly and see if I can get it to work.

[PieterS]

Carlos,

a quote from the article of Bob Katz:

To use the system, first choose one of the three meters based on the intended application. Wide dynamic range material probably requires K-20 and medium range material K-14. Then, calibrate the monitor gain where 0dB on the meter yields 83 dB SPL (per channel, C-Weighted, slow speed). 0dB always represents the same calibrated SPL on all three scales, unifying production practices worldwide.

That's about how I do it. Take into account that when you calibrate two channels at the same time, you have to add 3db, so it should give 86dB on the loudness meter. The meter is just an ordinary Radio Shack Analog Sound Pressure level meter, nothing special.

regards,

Pieter Stenekes

[SoundSuite]

Hi Pieter,

I just bought your Meter Native Plug In... Thanks for your great contributions. Would you share with us the method you used to calibrate your monitors?

Thanks again and best regards,

Carlos,

There are two ways...
The 'real' way and the 'virtual' way.
Either way, you want the reciever at your hearing position.
ie, put the rta pickup, spl meter or mic where your head usually is, not at the speaker.

Real way:
If you don't have one (which many of us don't), rent a nice flat RTA and a calibrated mic, ie, the pair that has been measured and calibrated or at least marked with a pen on tape what hash = what dB on the RTA display.
(or hit the radio shack like us SAW users and snag an spl meter, lol)
Turn down your monitors
Plug in the Sonoris Meters on MT1,
create a blank region a couple of minutes down the timeline,
Enguage L Calibration and hit play.
Turn up the left amp gain until the meter displays 83dB...you should hear the generated pink noise coming out of your left monitor.
...repeat for right monitor

The Virtual Way, depends on you, your mic, and your preamp gain selection:
Not really a great solution.
Turn down your monitors.
Plug in the Sonoris Meters on MT1 go to output 1,
create a blank region a couple of minutes down the timeline,
On MT2, select input as Device 1, and plug the best mic you got into it (best meaning best known by you as to how loud is how big on waveform)
On MT2, after the fader, plugin Bob's Freq Analyser or Spectre Pro
Do not assign MT2 to a valid output.
Enguage L Calibration and hit play.
Turn up the left amp gain until the MT2 displays 83dB on MT2, repeat for right.


How the K-System principle boils down is this:
Basically, if you go by the meters only, your mixes will be loud enough and have plenty of headroom (unless K12, which is squashed for broadcast).
This unity of mixing/mastering specs gives all media an accepted RMS level, ie percieved loudness, and allows the listener to change cd's without changing the overall percieved volume.

You can follow the K-X specs without setting your monitors...just use the meters.
The magic 83dB point comes into play when monitoring.
It is not, per say 'needed', but if followed, it is great and will make you smile.
When you use the K-System fully and set your monitors at 83dB and mix at that volume RMS for 0 on the KMeter, you'll be very satisfied in the loudness and clarity.
You may also notice your mixes centering in on this loudness inherently by ear when the monitors are calibrated..then looking at the meter and confirming your moves...scary stuff indeed.
*Bob Katz did alot of testing, there are many good arcticles about it on the google, ie how they came to the 83dB number exactly...it wasn't just guessed :)*

[Carlos Mills]

Hi Jon and Pieter,

Thanks for the tips...


Real way:
If you don't have one (which many of us don't), rent a nice flat RTA and a calibrated mic, ie, the pair that has been measured and calibrated or at least marked with a pen on tape what hash = what dB on the RTA display. (...)

Great. I have a friend who has a calibrated equipment to do this (among other things, he works measuring noise inside cars for the automobile industry). Besides, getting borrowed is better then renting... ;)


The Virtual Way, depends on you, your mic, and your preamp gain selection:
Not really a great solution.(...)

I had this idea , but,as you pointed out, it was not very appealing... so the Real way is the way to go for me...


You can follow the K-X specs without setting your monitors...just use the meters.
The magic 83dB point comes into play when monitoring.
It is not, per say 'needed', but if followed, (...)

I agree with you entirely. The concept of monitor calibration is what cached my attention at first. I think this is what makes his proposal unique. As he says, film mix engineers have enjoyed the liberty and privilege of a controlled monitoring environment with a fixed (calibrated) monitor gain for over 30 years now... I also think this is a very interesting way to break the "loud is better" philosophy so in use this days... :cool:

Thanks again and best regards,