PC benchmarks; relevance to SAWstudio

[Hussyh]

Just a question relating to evaluation of PC performance. Can anyone shed some light on which PC-performance Benchmarks are most relevant to real-time audio mixing and processing in general, and SAWStudio specifically?
My understanding is that SAW is very efficient in terms of its CPU load due to the way it is written, so that one doesn't necessarily require the latest and greatest PC. Nevertheless, it would be useful to know how to compare benchmarks in terms of their relevance to SAW. For example, would it be correct to assume that good benchmarks relating to gaming performance(not talking video cards here) indicate that a particular PC would be good for a SAW DAW? I mean, gaming requires lottsa real-time processing, so wouldn't it be similar to audio mixing and processing in that regard?
Interestingly, there are a couple of motherboards that have just been released for a desktop implementaion of the low-power Pentium M processor, and in the gaming benchmarks specifically this mobo/cpu combo is the fastest thing out there at the moment, with the added benefit of running very cool and quiet. A great candidate for a SAW DAW perhaps?

[Craig Allen]

My off the shelf Toshiba Centrino Pentium M 1.6G with 512M RAM (32M shared with video) runs circles around my 2.4G PIV DAW with 1Gig of memory as far as real-time processing goes, so it probably would be a good candidate. Where my PIV DAW shines is in sessions with a large number of tracks (recording or playback) because it has faster disk drives. Obviously a Pentium M machine built around fast ATA133 or SATA drives wouldn't have this issue.

[SoundSuite]

Most gaming benchmarks are built around how many pixels can be spat on the screen per second.
Sure, they task your CPU/Mem, etc, but the read-out is bunk for us.

Get something like SiSoft Sandra, that'll run good system tests for numbers not related to gaming, but to 'performance'.

[Bob L]

Truly just about any reasonable machine of today's standards can perform wonders as a SAWStudio machine... simply keep the Windows install clean and free of background programs and services. No virus checkers, no drag and drop CD burner apps... etc... turn off Windows menu and windowing effects and animations... etc...

I will probably be posting some of my Windows setup guidelines very soon.

Bob L

[mghtx]

I will probably be posting some of my Windows setup guidelines very soon.

Hey, great. That would be nice.

[DennisC]

I want to raise this question again because I, as Hussyh, am contemplating building a dedicated DAW that is "silent" so it can be in the same room as an open mic.

To build a silent PC you need to keep fan noise down. To keep fan noise down you need to keep heat down. The Pentium M processor runs about 5-6 times cooler than the P4 and lends itself in that reagrd to be a geat silent PC CPU.

However, the Pentium M benchmarks are great for some tasks and poor for others. It has more variation than most CPUs on benchmarks.

Therefore, with this question it is particulary interesting to note which benchmarks would best reflect SAW performance. I know SAW does internal processing differently than many other DAWs (something about integer vs floating point math). This is particulary important because the Pentium M does not show good performance on "scentific, mathematic" benchmarks but does great for "gaming" and general PC tasks. If it helps any, the Pentium M "pipeline" in like 3 times shorter than the P4 and the Pentium M has 2MB L2 cache.

We know SAW will run on most any decent PC. BUT, trying to make it silent with a Pentium M CPU, with the Pentium M's strengths vs weaknesses, is it a good match for how SAW does it's processing.

Thanks,
Dennis

[Craig Allen]

My Toshiba laptop has a Pentium M in it and I have no complaints. I use it for live duties all the time and it's never let me down and the load is low. I currently mix 13 channels, all with compression and gates, 1 Studio Freeverb, 3 JMS EQ's, 3 Levelizers, 2 RML Frequency Analyzers, a couple JMS RC Delays, and other things I can't remember right now all at 3x64 buffers with a RME Multiface.

[AudioAstronomer]

My best saw experience so far has been with pentium-M.

very fast, and just felt a lot more solid...

[Dave Tosti-Lane]

I want to raise this question again because I, as Hussyh, am contemplating building a dedicated DAW that is "silent" so it can be in the same room as an open mic.

Dennis

I've been checking out the new Zalman TNN 500AF completely fanless case - it even has a completely fanless power supply - basically the whole case is heat sinc fins with heat-pipes feeding from the cpu, video, and other locations. It's a good looking box too, and is castered. They point out that the lack of fans also reduces dust build-up which contributes to cooler running as well. The catch - well, It's kinda pricy - like $1195! But that does include heatpipes for CPU, Video card, and even an enclosure and heat-pipe cooling for the drives, additional thermal blocks to apply to the motheboard in specific locations, and a pretty nice remote control system. And, of course, the advantage of not having all that cat-fur sucked into the machine is a big one for me too :D

link to info here - http://tinyurl.com/59ye2

I have a machine right now with Zalman's very quiet 400w power supply, and their large diameter copper/aluminum fan on the CPU (larger diameter fan with large blades that run a lot quieter than typical cpu fans) and a fanless ATI all-in-wonder video card - the only real noise it makes is a case fan that is left over from the original configuration of the box, and I'm going to try disconnecting that one of these days since it doesn't seem to have any heat problems as yet. This is on a P4 3.2 Gig machine.
Also have a Seagate baracuda SATA drive on it which is similarly extremely quiet.

Dave Tosti-Lane

[chevdo]

The catch - well, It's kinda pricy - like $1195!

That's ridiculous. I keep my machine in the room next to this one, with a small hole punched in the wall for cabling. So I have a quiet room for recording for the price of monitor and usb extension cords for keyboard and mouse. Even if I were renting I could repair the wall for less than $1195 before moving!

[Carl G.]

I have a machine right now with Zalman's very quiet 400w power supply, and their large diameter copper/aluminum fan on the CPU (larger diameter fan with large blades that run a lot quieter than typical cpu fans) and a fanless ATI all-in-wonder video card - the only real noise it makes is a case fan that is left over from the original configuration of the box, and I'm going to try disconnecting that one of these days since it doesn't seem to have any heat problems as yet. This is on a P4 3.2 Gig machine.
Also have a Seagate baracuda SATA drive on it which is similarly extremely quiet.
Dave Tosti-Lane
Dave,
Pretty much Ditto here. I've never hooked up my case fan and it runs great!
On a few summer days, I do turn up the Zalman speed though.
I also have the machine located just around the corner in the closet....
The only noise I hear is the keyboard ... so I try not to type when I'm doing VO :)

[Bruce Callaway]

Carl and Dave,

Thanks for the Zalman information. I haven't come across this company before and am now quiet interested in their products. The power and CPU fan could be quiet useful for me.

Cheers
Bruce

[Dave Tosti-Lane]

That's ridiculous. I keep my machine in the room next to this one, with a small hole punched in the wall for cabling. So I have a quiet room for recording for the price of monitor and usb extension cords for keyboard and mouse. Even if I were renting I could repair the wall for less than $1195 before moving!

Yeah, it's pretty pricy. But, for my sound design computers, I often need to move the computer between 3-4 spaces throughout the year, and none of them really allow for the remote-room, and some of them need the computer to sit out in the open in a theater auditorium to run playback, sometimes within a couple of feet of a paying audience member. So, for those situations, it might just be worth it to have the totally silent box. Also, it's very ruggedly built, with convenient handles for moving, and the full metal enclosure offers some advantages in terms of reduced EMI.

And then, it looks cool :D

For the home machine, it's really a lot more convenient for me not to have to remote the box also, as I have no closets, and wouldn't really want the noise in any of the rooms on the other side of the near walls. The reduced dust and cat hair part is a plus as well (we're all long-hairs here :rolleyes: ).

And, frankly, sometimes I don't really care what something costs - I spend way more than I technically have to on parts for my bicycle too, and I've been known to spend a lot of money putting a ridiculously large engine in a tiny little automobile with no practical reason for doing so even remotely definable (just ask the wife). Don't even ask about the stove in our kitchen. :eek: (Of course, you probably already figured out that that one solves the wife problem with the other ones :) )

Dave Tosti-Lane

[Dave Tosti-Lane]

Dave,
Pretty much Ditto here. I've never hooked up my case fan and it runs great!
On a few summer days, I do turn up the Zalman speed though.
I also have the machine located just around the corner in the closet....
The only noise I hear is the keyboard ... so I try not to type when I'm doing VO :)

Yeah, I actually put this machine right on my desk next to the monitor, and it's no problem there (it's a big desk, so it's still a good distance away.) I originally had it under the desk, but it put out so much heat that it was getting uncomfortable. The Zalman stuff seems to be very well thought out.

Dave

[Tree Leopard]

Carl and Dave,

Thanks for the Zalman information. I haven't come across this company before and am now quiet interested in their products. The power and CPU fan could be quiet useful for me.Bruce - maybe you're already aware of this, but there is a small company called AAVIM here in OZ who builds custom 4U rack mount PCs for pro audio use.

Vin fits his gear with Zalman and also he uses special cables (to replace the ribbons) to ensure better airflow through the unit. High quality work & very reasonable prices considering the service you get. Ideal if you are using the unit as part of a mobile production rig (as I am)
http://www.stealthaudiosystem.com.au/index.html

Andre