Y-ing an effect to 2 returns

[IraSeigel]

I'm using a drum sample, and I'd like to return it into 2 separate returns. I'd like do this, if possible, rather than use 2 instances of the effect, in order to save CPU resources. Is it possible to do this?

Thanks,
Ira

[Brent Evans]

I don' think you can do that, exactly, but it begs the question, "why?".

[Mark Stebbeds]

Is it a sample/virtual instrument or an effect? Be more specific about what you are trying to do.

Mark

[IraSeigel]

I have a Barcus-Berry contact mic that I'm using to trigger a drum sample in Apulsoft Aptrigga. The contact mic isn't assigned to an output - it just goes to Aptrigga.

Now, I'm returning the Aptrigga kick drum sample into a return, and assigning that return to an output feeding PA subs only. As such, I get a lot of the low end kick drum sound, but none of the attack (that higher frequency isn't reproduced by the subs). I've tried to send the kick drum sample to the PA L&R AND the subs, but at a fader level that gives me sufficient send to the subs, I get WAY too much attack coming thru the Mains.

So I thought of having 2 returns of the kick drum sample: 1 return I could send to the Mains with the proper amount of attack of the kick drum, and the other return I could send just to the Subs, to get the proper balance between low end and hi.

I'm going to get some work time on with PA tomorrow, so I can play with balances. Perhaps it's just a matter of getting the proper amount of attack into the PA, and then balancing the output fader going to the Subs accordingly.

Sorry if I've made this sound very confusing. Perhaps it is, and I'm doing something in a very difficult manner that could be done much more simply.

Ira

PS I have my mixer set up so that I simply assign something to the Subs output using the Output Assign button. I'm not assigning to the Sub output using an Aux Send. If I did, perhaps this would be simpler? If I chose to do that, how to I return an effect (sample, VSTanything) to an input rather than a return, and thereby having access to the aux sends on the the input channel?

[Craig Allen]

Assign the kick drum to a channel and put the drum replacer as a pre FX. Set it up so it doesn't pass any audio, just the sample. Use the aux sends to send it to two return channels - one assigned to the hi pass output, and the other to the low pass output. Tweak the aux send levels until you have the proper mix.

[Bob L]

Or... assign two adjacent chans to the same real kick drum input device... then you can use and eq the real kick however you want and assign the plugin patched on the second chan into any bus any way you want.

Or assign the plugin output to two or more aux sends and returns... eq and effect them any way you want.

Bob L

[IraSeigel]

The problem is that I don't have a real kick drum. I have a shoe that's pounding on a slab of birch. I have a transducer that I'm using just to trigger the sample. The transducer itself sounds like crap - no offense to Barcus Berry.

I think I tried the Pre FX patch early on, and I was not able to get the proper sound. But I'll try it again, maybe using a different patch point in the signal chain.

If I wanted to assign the plug in output to two or more aux sends and returns - actually, that's EXACTLY what I want to do! - how do I do this? I would have to use the sample as a PreFX patch instead of an Aux Send patch returning on a return bus. Right?

Ira

[gdougherty]

Ira, patch Apptrigga pre-fx on the channel. Then on the mixer menu, use the pre-fx point option to set your Barcus Barry channel to be pre-eq/dyn. That will put Apptrigga before all your channel processing and the aux sends. If you just put it on the pre-fade fx point it processes after the auxes. That's how I patch Reverberate to model the bass signal into an 8x10 cab.

[IraSeigel]

Ira, patch Apptrigga pre-fx on the channel. Then on the mixer menu, use the pre-fx point option to set your Barcus Barry channel to be pre-eq/dyn. That will put Apptrigga before all your channel processing and the aux sends. If you just put it on the pre-fade fx point it processes after the auxes. That's how I patch Reverberate to model the bass signal into an 8x10 cab.

Yes! Maybe that's why I couldn't get it to work the first time. I'll try that again.

BTW,I'm using Reverberate LE for a few shows now. It sounds really good. The GUI is a bit large, and it takes up a bit more CPU than Bob's, but it's a really nice reverb

[Brent Evans]

Ira, if all you want to do is balance output to the subs, have you tried using the X/Y sub feed?

[IraSeigel]

Ira, if all you want to do is balance output to the subs, have you tried using the X/Y sub feed?

???
I suppose that's in the manual???:eek:

[Brent Evans]

???
I suppose that's in the manual???:eek:

Yup, but it's simple. Turn X/Y pan on and turn the sub volume up on all channels you want going to the sub, and click the "sub" button on your sub output fader. Bob says it takes a lot of CPU load becasue it engages a bunch of busses even if you're just using the one, but when I tried it it only used as much as an aux send, and the load was proportional to the number of channels going to the sub. It was only 2-3***37; anyway.

You'd use this instead of aux or bus fed subs, it kind of functions the same as aux fed though. Pretty neat stuf.

[IraSeigel]

Yup, but it's simple. Turn X/Y pan on and turn the sub volume up on all channels you want going to the sub, and click the "sub" button on your sub output fader. Bob says it takes a lot of CPU load becasue it engages a bunch of busses even if you're just using the one, but when I tried it it only used as much as an aux send, and the load was proportional to the number of channels going to the sub. It was only 2-3% anyway.

You'd use this instead of aux or bus fed subs, it kind of functions the same as aux fed though. Pretty neat stuf.

Much thanks. I'll try it this afternoon. I have the whole place (UConn theater) to myself for a few hours, so I can't wait to give it a go.
Ira

[gdougherty]

Yes! Maybe that's why I couldn't get it to work the first time. I'll try that again.

BTW,I'm using Reverberate LE for a few shows now. It sounds really good. The GUI is a bit large, and it takes up a bit more CPU than Bob's, but it's a really nice reverb
Reverberate, is even nicer in features, though the UI is even bigger. With the one instance I can model both a D6 and an i5 somewhere on the driver for an Ampeg 8x10. It also doesn't pop-up with the "donate to a charity" message on the occasional scene load. It's also not remote controllable :(. Too many parameters and big file name fields.

[RBIngraham]

Another Option. Assign the Aux Return to two separate dedicated Outputs in Submaster mode. (Out 9-24) Assign one of those submaster only to the subwoofer Output. Assign the other only to the mains. Balance the levels between the mains and subwoofs with those submasters. Put them way off to the right on the F-mixer and don't pay them any mind except when you need to adjust the balance.

[Leadfoot]

I get WAY too much attack coming thru the Mains.



Howbout use a different sample.

[gdougherty]

Howbout use a different sample.

Also a good option, though by patching it at the right point in the channel signal flow, you can then EQ it appropriately as well.

[IraSeigel]

Thanks G and Brent. Choosing the proper PreFX patch point solved part of the problem, and I would NEVER have looked at the XY Pan if Brent hadn't told me about it. Using the XY and correct patch, I was able to eliminate 2 Aux sends and 2 channels worth of EQ, and get a good balance between the attack of the kick sample and the bottom end. It seems like a much simpler setup now. It sounds great in my cans - now I'll have to wait til the PA is fired up.

Next to last show of the tour - maybe I'll finally get it right...:o

I DID notice a small inconsistency in the way the L+R Click works on the XY Pan popout fader for the S and C sends. Instead of L+R Click taking the fader to 0, as is common pretty much throughout the interface, these faders go to -inf. Which is fine. Just thought I'd mention it...

Ira

[Brent Evans]

Ira, did you happen to notice your comparable CPU load? I'd like to verify that my result is or isn't isn't a fluke before I start stating it affirmatively and making a fool of myself. I can do that quite effectively otherwise. :D

[IraSeigel]

Ira, did you happen to notice your comparable CPU load? I'd like to verify that my result is or isn't isn't a fluke before I start stating it affirmatively and making a fool of myself. I can do that quite effectively otherwise. :D

I'm down on my CPU usage by at least 7%. Bypassing Reverberate LE frees up another 8-10%

Ira