Using Kontakt 4 in SAW & MWS?

[Microstudio]

Ok I am thinking of buying Kontakt 4 and I was wondering if any of you are using it and can tell me how its working in SAW and MWS?

Thanks for your time.

[mOjO Fet]

I have been using Kontakt 4 Player for months now without any problems, except when I reload a project the patches/multis will not load (not always). Not a big deal for me, I use it for Mixosaurus and the multis can be manualy loaded via the "recent multi" option in the menu. It might have to do with SAW's unique handling of it's audio engine. It's off by default, and when I tweak parameters in the patches, like midi maps for instance the parameters will not change until SAW is in LIVE mode.

Michael

[Microstudio]

I have been using Kontakt 4 Player for months now without any problems, except when I reload a project the patches/multis will not load (not always). Not a big deal for me, I use it for Mixosaurus and the multis can be manualy loaded via the "recent multi" option in the menu. It might have to do with SAW's unique handling of it's audio engine. It's off by default, and when I tweak parameters in the patches, like midi maps for instance the parameters will not change until SAW is in LIVE mode.

Michael

Are you using it in MWS also or just SAW?

[AcousticGlue]

Works fine either or.

[John Ludlow]

I've been using Kontakt 4 for the past few months and, although I mostly feel like I'm driving a jet plane down the road, I have to admit that even that is very impressive. The new AET concept is really cool. I haven't used Kontakt with MWS successfully though.

Here's something to consider about Kontakt, and Native Instruments - they issued the product in the fall and the literature that came with it talked about, and located within it's file structure, a manual. But it wasn't there, and the manual didn't show up until late in the winter in the second or third update. No explanation or apology for the bait-and-switch confusion at any point. It's just not there - then it is. The literature that came with it talked about a series of videos that came with the product. They're not there either. Later, in a forum, a company rep. just says that the literature was in error, that there would be no videos. Just like that.

It's clear that there's someone really brilliant in the lab behind Kontakt - this shows up in countless little nuances all through the product - but the company's connection with the customer really isn't there, and my impression is that they don't care about that in the least. The attitude seems to be, "You'll take what we sell you - and you're fortunate to get it." If the product wasn't so good - I wouldn't pay for the updates - just to spite them. That's how strongly I've come to feel about them. However, the product really is that good. I've made a pact with myself not to buy any of their other products though - just to save on aggravation.

[DominicPerry]

I've had similar problems with Battery (around authentication) and stopped using it. I also haven't bought any more NI products, but I now want an 'organ' and having been impressed with B4 before, was wondering what alternatives anyone recommends? -(looks like B4 isn't part of their suite anymore anyway, so I'm guessing it's part of one of the other products). Or I could just hunt for a real Wurly, Leslie, Hammond and Rhodes. ;)

Dominic

[mOjO Fet]

Nothing beats the real thing.

@Microstudio: I have used Kontakt in MWS without problems.

[John Ludlow]

Nothing beats the real thing.

One thing that's ironic is that I am very impressed by the realism of modern sampled instruments - except for the ones that I also actually play. For instance, acoustic guitar in particular sounds totally fake to me. Although the tone of the instrument is right, a resulting midi performance lacks the sound of a guitarist playing it.

There are many little flesh and bone things that guitarists do to add expression - and there are trade-offs in position that we make to compensate for our fingers being too fat, or too short, or not strong enough, or not flexible enough that influence the sound. Stuff that, over many years of practice, are largely - but not completely - hidden from view, which add character, and to my ears - realism - to the result. I suspect that this may be the case with, at least, many sampled instruments that are not natively played with a keyboard - but that the result isn't as glaring to me because I don't have the same intimate relationship with the instrument.

[Microstudio]

One thing that's ironic is that I am very impressed by the realism of modern sampled instruments - except for the ones that I also actually play. For instance, acoustic guitar in particular sounds totally fake to me. Although the tone of the instrument is right, a resulting midi performance lacks the sound of a guitarist playing it.

There are many little flesh and bone things that guitarists do to add expression - and there are trade-offs in position that we make to compensate for our fingers being too fat, or too short, or not strong enough, or not flexible enough that influence the sound. Stuff that, over many years of practice, are largely - but not completely - hidden from view, which add character, and to my ears - realism - to the result. I suspect that this may be the case with, at least, many sampled instruments that are not natively played with a keyboard - but that the result isn't as glaring to me because I don't have the same intimate relationship with the instrument.

Yes I agree. You can sample a piano and play it and get all the subtleties but the acoustic guitar has way more subtleties that you can't pull off in midi.

[DominicPerry]

Yes I agree. You can sample a piano and play it and get all the subtleties but the acoustic guitar has way more subtleties that you can't pull off in midi.

I don't agree. I can tell a sampled piano a mile off, even with today's massive sample libraries. The subtleties of the interaction of different notes, especially with the pedal being down, escape all the midi instruments. I have also come to hate modern piano recordings with their 100's of edits. I can't always tell where the edit points are, but the result is often a 'choppy' performance.

Dominic

[Cary B. Cornett]

I don't agree. I can tell a sampled piano a mile off, even with today's massive sample libraries. The subtleties of the interaction of different notes, especially with the pedal being down, escape all the midi instruments. For me it has become partly a matter of how the piano part is used and partly one of economics. As part of a rock/pop track with plenty of other instruments, I'm usually OK with a sampled instrument these days. By itself, I usually much prefer the real thing, but access to a truly fine instrument is not cheap.
I have also come to hate modern piano recordings with their 100's of edits. I can't always tell where the edit points are, but the result is often a 'choppy' performance.

Dominic
I have a friend who is a fine piano player, for whom I helped put together an album a few years back, and there is another "in the works". For the earlier album, there was little choice but to go with a sampler, except for a couple of cuts from a live concert recording. Somewhat later, we were able to borrow a piano in a theater for a day. It wasn't a great piano, but we managed to get some decent stuff out of it. The earlier album has maybe one or two edits in the whole thing, the rest of the performances being "straight up" with no fixes at all. There is a bit more editing in the later work, but still a lot less than what you describe.

I fully agree that too much/detailed editing strips the life from a "performance".

[Microstudio]

I don't agree. I can tell a sampled piano a mile off, even with today's massive sample libraries. The subtleties of the interaction of different notes, especially with the pedal being down, escape all the midi instruments. I have also come to hate modern piano recordings with their 100's of edits. I can't always tell where the edit points are, but the result is often a 'choppy' performance.

Dominic

I can respect that. Also you are among the few in a world that love music that understand the process the rest of the people have there music and listen and sing along never knowing anything about how the recording was done, let alone care about it. But as midi Soft Instruments go...the piano is one of the best that I have played and recorded. I have yet heard a convincing A-GTR recording or played one in midi.

[mOjO Fet]

You can make music with sampled instruments...

...you can have more character with real instruments, but character alone doesn't make music...

...only creativity does!

And yes, it depends on which part the intrument plays in the contex.

A real player can have an entire universe of subtleties and choices on how to play and express himself on his instrument. And every player "only" does use a portion of these choices that reflect his personality.
A sample library does mostly contain a more general definition of a instrument. Which is not always favourable to an individuals spectrum of expression.

Michael