Notebook Recommendations for SAWStudio?

[Perry]

I have a lot of friends working with notebooks (but mostly Macs) and it's got me thinking of the possibilities. But, about notebooks I know next to nothing.

Are there any clear cut do's and don't's to think about? Can anyone make any chipset suggetions for a notebook to run SAWStudio? Anything in particular that's proven to work well with SAWStudio? An endorsement directly from RML Labs maybe?

Thanks for any help! :)

All the Best,

perry

[Bob L]

Perry,

I have been ordering and setting up ProStar laptops for my high-end customers for the last 6 months or so.

There are a couple of configurations that work out real well for a SAWStudio killer system.

Their 5604 system is the lesser priced system that works great... has 2 hard drive bays for 120 gigs internal 7200 rpm drives... has a 1600x1200 screen option... up to 2 gig ram option... firewire... and uses the ATI radeon cards which will deliver full screen overlay video out to an external monitor from the vidoe track.... also has a dvd burner option.

Their more crazed system adds very wide screen 1680x1050 option... a built-in tv tuner and camera... higher performance ati overlay video out... svideo in and out connections... larger keyboard... 7 in 1 memory card reader... its called the 8794 system.

These have given insane performance so far in each case... I usually get them with XP Pro and then tweak the Windows install to my performance specs...

All systems so far have performed solid 72 track mixed mono-stereo files at 3% MT load... with all 72 eq's patched with all 5 bands active and all compressors and gates patched... that test session runs at about 60-70% MT Load... pretty amazing...

In all cases I have used the RME Hammerfall DSP Cardbus system... with digiface and multiface boxes and whatever converters would fit the customer's budget... in many cases the Behringer ADA-8000 have been used and there have been no problems to date... you may decide on more expensive converters if you feel the need.

Check them out at www.pro-star.com (http://www.pro-star.com/)

Bob L

[Perry]

Bob,

WOW!!!! that *IS* impressive. That's more performance even than I expected, though I know that some of these latest laptops are incredibly powerful... as powerful as many desktop systems.

I'll give it some thought. Danielle just bought a laptop as well, but it's only for her own office/word processor work and occasional graphics stuff when she's out.... no audio.

She loves it... now I'm starting to feel like the only person *without* a laptop! :(

Thanks for the info Bob... very much appreciated! :)

All the best,

Perry

[TotalSonic]

Perry -
One other model you might want to check out is the Sager - http://www.sagernotebook.com

You can also get them with 7200rpm drives, fast P4 CPU's, ATI Radeon graphics, etc.

But the Pro Star definitely looks impressive too!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Bob L]

Steve,

Someone told me that ProStar is owned by Sager or the other way around...

Look at the machines... they look the same. :)

Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

Prostar and Sager outsource to the same taiwanese (or asian country) company. [edit] and here's the link I just found.

http://www.powernotebooks.com/Name_Brand.php3

I use a toshiba notebook, model escapes me at the moment. Having used prostar, emachines, dell, desknote etc... This one is by far the most rugged and well-built. Ive dropped my toshiba out of a moving car (long long story), going about 50 mph. You would NEVER know it. not a loose screw or even a scratch in sight. And ran a test project after seeing this thread, 32 stereo tracks with eq, compression and each routed to a jms freeverb for 3-4% mt usage. Kill freeverb and it flickers between 2-3%. 2.8ghz no HT. This was with a 2x256 buffer using my motu ASIO drivers.

I love my toshiba :) [edit] it cost me 1050.00$ at circuit city, who gladly accepted 3 returns of laptops I didnt like before that with no questions asked. Full refund, of course I opted for store credit. There was also 300$ rebates on the toshiba. And it has one of the best LCd screens I've experienced on a laptop, in the same league as apple and sony's display's.

[Oz Nimbus]

One alternative to a notebook, and one that I'm seriously looking at for my live rig, would be a "Frag Box." These are very small cases, using small motherboards, usually with two free PCI slots as well as an AGP slot.

These were originally invented for Lan Parties, sort of a "high power" rig that would be very portable, and for a lot less money than a high end laptop.

Grab one of these case/motherboard configs, drop in a full blown P4 cpu, some decent ram, and buy a cheap LCD monitor. Instant portable live recording system.



Just an idea,


-0z-

[AudioAstronomer]

I have a box similiar to what OZ mentioned, and it works great. I use this in conjunction with a wireless modem, and my laptop to run live recording gigs.

[mghtx]

Having never owned a laptop I've always wanted one. But I've been thinking of going the "frag box" way, as Oz stated. I'm gonna check out the ProStars tonight.

[Dave Tosti-Lane]

I also have a Prostar - it's not my main audio machine, I bought it for office work, but I have no problemo using my Layla 24 PCCard interface with Studio on Win2K when I'm out and around.

See if you can get your hands on the model you plan to buy first - the one thing I haven't been happy with on the Prostar is the keyboard, it's a little too flexible and mushy for my taste (I would LOVE to find a PC laptop with a keyboard as nice as the 17" Powerbook) - but it's been a good all-round machine. I went for the Prostar because it was the only one at the time that had reasonale pricing on memory and other upgrades. It is starting to act up a bit now - I suspect it may be time to replace the HD.

The cheaper models don't have easily removable batteries - I bought a spare battery with mine, but when it came, I realized I could never take it through Airport security - it's about 12" long, shaped like a stick of dynamite, with a set of wires and a connector trailing off one end <grin>

The bigger ones Bob was talking about may have cartridge batteries - never really was a big deal for me as it turned out because I'm rarely using it without the ac plug.

Dave T-L

[Dave Tosti-Lane]

I realized I should expand on that part about starting to act up - I've been using the machine for over 2 years, including dragging on a month long vacation in the UK to use with my digital camera, and the "acting up" just means that it occasionally doesn't want to boot up on the first hit of the power button. It has always eventually come up and once it does, it works fine for the rest of the day.

Dave T-L

[Bob L]

Dave,

The higher-end ProStar machine still is not all that sweet in the battery dept... it is a cartridge type battery, but you still have to screw it into place... it is actually part of the case molding...

Not really great on battery power either... only about 1 to 2 hours max... but then again... its got a dvd burner and two 7200 harddrives and a tv tuner and camera as well as a killer 1600 plus screen... what can you expect. :)

Bob L

[Dave Tosti-Lane]

Yeah, the little guy can make about 3 hours at the most. On the other hand, one of the reasons I went for it was that it was a desktop CPU rather than one of the power saving type, so I knew what I was getting into there.

They do seem like great values - and even two years ago, it had firewire, which has turned out to be extremely handy for my photography work. The one thing it doesn't have that has been a bit of a pain is a serial port - this wouldn't be a big deal, except that I've got several DSP boxes in the theaters (Symnet and BiAmp) that need serial port connections, and the USB-Serial converters will work, but they're a lot slower than a straight serial connection.

I'm leaning toward something a lot lighter for my next laptop though - as it happens, I don't really use the laptop that much for audio stuff, and when I do (in the theater) I'm generally just using it with VNC or something like that to control the desktop up in the booth. I'd love to get down in the 3-4 pound range, to cut down on the lopsided walk through the airport <grin>

Dave T-L

[Bob L]

Yup,

These machines are not gonna win in the small and light dept... but oh boy... when you think you can carry your whole studio control room with you on location and do a complete mix in a hotel room without missing anything from some large million dollar mixing suite in your home town... it's pretty awesome. :)

I don't even need my studio monitors anymore... the last missing link for me was finding the Sony Digital MDR-V6 headphones... they are so accurate, I have done my last few projects 100% mixed and eq'd in the phones... the mixes translate perfect up to my monitors and other systems I tested on.

Bob L

[Bob L]

I am not sure that they are the same... but you could be correct... the V6s sell for about $80... there are other Sony phones that are higher priced and billed as superior... but the V6 gets the job done better than anything I ever tested before.

They are very critical and bright sounding... they would not necessarily be your pick for easy listening... but I can actually hear the 40 cycle boost and cut of my eq in them with perfect clarity... its kind of scary. :)

Bob L

[Dave Tosti-Lane]

I really like the MDR-7506s - I think they are very similar to the ones Bob is using. I started using them when I was doing some recording in a small jazz club, and needed something punchy enough to be able to hear over the live sound. I think they're usually around $99 or so - and they're pretty rugged and fold up into a nice size for sticking in a gig bag or brief case.

The 7506 has a 40mm driver, and lists frequency response as 10-20K, there is also a 7509 model which has a 50mm driver and claimed Fr of 5-30K and a larger "earmuff" so it encloses the entire ear instead of sitting on the ear.

I think the model Bob has may have the 50mm drivers as well?

Dave Tosti-Lane

[Dave Tosti-Lane]

Ah - I found them I think - is that the MDR-V600 model Bob? 40mm drivers just like the 7506, but they do list the frequency response as 5-30K, and it looks like they have the larger earcups as well.

Dave T-L

[Bob L]

Dave,

No... the number is the V6... like I said there are many different ones and they all definitely seem to sound different.

I tried the 7506s and they have a nice and pleasing sound... but eqing and mixing does not seem to translate as well when the mix is played back on monitors...

The V6 has done that for me...

Of course many of us have learned a particular set of phones and make adjustments to what we are mixing to compensate and end up with the results we are aiming for...

With these V6s... I have not really had to compensate... They are bright sounding and I simply make a very rich and punchy mix... and it seems to translate beautifully.

May not work for everyone... but for me now... I feel I can mix and master a project completely on location with no control room... it sure is fun.

Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

has it taken much of a transition to get the stereo image correct Bob? I have been mixing and setting levels on sennheiser hd280's (i love em), and it translates great spectrally and dyanmic balance... but the stereo image always is "squished" on other systems. I guess because the headphones make it seem more seperated than it really is.

whats your experience with this?

[Bob L]

I don't find the stereo image to be a problem.

You can hear some results for yourself at www.StevenLeeGroup.com (http://www.stevenleegroup.com/)

Check out the "From The Ground Up" CD samples... and they are just mp3's...

That entire project was recorded, mixed in the V6 phones and mastered in the virtual SAWStudio environment... its one of my favorite works.

I happen to love the musicianship also. :)

Bob L

[TotalSonic]

Just shows you that what works for one person is absolutely horrible for another!
I can't possibly imagine mixing and especially eq'ing on headphones. I have Sennheiser HD450 & Sony V600 headphones - but these are just to check mixes and to listen for things like clicks and pops and check details in fades.
I'm kind of old school primarily using NS-10Ms & a Hafler TM10.1 subwoofer (gotta be albe to hear below 80Hz in order to mix hip-hop!) for mixing in my project room.

To me, while you can get away with using all kinds of stuff for mixing, excellent monitoring is CRITICAL when mastering. Here at Europadisk we have the venerable Infinity RS4.5's (they're the size of refrigerators w/ a response of 24Hz-45kHz) driven by a Neumann SAL84 rack. Things that absolutely would never be revealed by near fields or headphones become readily apparent when listened to on this system. I believe this level of detail is a must have for making the proper decisions when doing critical mastering.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Bob L]

Steve,

Not long ago, I thought so too... I tried mxing in many different headphones all throughout my 30 plus year audio career... the results never translated properly in any regard... I was always forced back to my monitors. Headphones were always something to listen for details like background noises and so forth.

The V6 has blown my mind with the way it does translate... and once again, I say... not the V600, or any other model... only that one model... I bought a handful of them, just in case they take them off the market anytime soon. :)

Bob L

[Carl G.]

Dave,
With these V6s... it seems to translate beautifully (With monitors)

May not work for everyone... but for me now... I feel I can mix and master a project completely on location with no control room... it sure is fun.

Bob L
Just got my V6's. Rarely do I buy anything 'sight unheard'. But the raving over the V6s was irresistable.
I now find that they are absolutely "Great" for adjusting/matching EQ in a mix!
I like my AKGs studio monitor headphones for most VO work, but they miss the low freq mic pops that the V6 will catch.
For general VO work I'll use the AKG's but mic placement VO matching and for all my mixing... it's going to be the V6s!! (They actually beat the Yamaha NS10m's in making a good EQ balance).
Very impressive!
Thanks!

[Perry]

Well.. this is extreme I know.. but I have the AKG K-1000's and boy do they ever sound good. It's like mixing through speakers really... only they're on your head.. ;) Incredible clarity and detail... perhaps the ultimate "nearfields". :rolleyes: And quite the conversation piece as well! :eek:

http://www.fullcompass.com/Products/pages/SKU--76008/


http://www.akg.com/mediadatabase/psfile/datei/65/k1000_en405f0490c892c.pdf

Sometimes I'll set up a mix with these and they're great for checking panning and detail... pretty interesting.

Very pricey... but I got mine at a considerable discount.

I gotta try a pair of these V-6's that Bob is talking about though. :)

Perry

[Bob L]

I will be adding the new Lon Bronson finished mixes into rotation on the Radio Network shortly. This entire project was recorded and mixed using the V6's as the only monitoring source.

It's pretty amazing how well they can work.

Bob L

[Perry]

I will be adding the new Lon Bronson finished mixes into rotation on the Radio Network shortly. This entire project was recorded and mixed using the V6's as the only monitoring source.

It's pretty amazing how well they can work.

Bob L

That's amazing Bob!!! I'm going to check to see if the store where I trade here has these... I know they carry AKG's and I could use an extra set of phones anyway.

Looking forward to hearing the new Lon Bronson stuff! :)

Perry

[RobertV]

I've been trying to locate a source / supplier in Australia for the V6's but not looking promising so far!, does anyone know of a supplier over here?

Sony Australia does not seem to carry them, it is not in their product listing, perhaps someone does parrallel importing.

:( Cheers.....Robert V.

[Mountain Media]

Sometimes I'll set up a mix with these and they're great for checking panning and detail... pretty interesting.

...............

I gotta try a pair of these V-6's that Bob is talking about though. :)

Perry
Perry, if you do get to use a pair of the V6's I'd, really, like your thoughts as to 'detail checking' compared to K-1000's. Obviously, you won't have the 'openness' of the AKG's, but it'd be interesting to have someone, that does as much varied mixing as you do, compare.

I've used the V6's for years, and I have similar feelings as Bob does, as to their benefits. For VO, the Sony 7506's seem to work a little better for talent fold-back monitoring, but for editing and correcting VO, the V6's can't be beat!

[Perry]

Perry, if you do get to use a pair of the V6's I'd, really, like your thoughts as to 'detail checking' compared to K-1000's. Obviously, you won't have the 'openness' of the AKG's, but it'd be interesting to have someone, that does as much varied mixing as you do, compare.

I've used the V6's for years, and I have similar feelings as Bob does, as to their benefits. For VO, the Sony 7506's seem to work a little better for talent fold-back monitoring, but for editing and correcting VO, the V6's can't be beat!

Sure... soon as I get a pair of V-6's I'll reply here. I find this all quite intereting really and I'm always interested in stuff like this. I definitely want to try them.

The K-1000's are... well.... I don't expect these to be exactly something to compare as apples and apples really. The K-1000's I can mix on... but I still usually trust my monitors for the final decisions. The K-1000's are pretty incredible though and I like listening on them a lot and they tell a lot of things.

One friend of mine here (a producer of jazz recordings) is considering getting a pair for checking the sounds of different studios when he's recording so that he doesn't have to rely on different studio monitors and rooms that he isn't familiar with. He wants a "standard" reference that he can easily carry around and thinks these will work for him. Could be I'd think.

But the K-1000's are quite different from normal headphones though in that they are completely "open" and you can hear their output in the room (faintly, but easily) and you can still carry on a conversation if you're not listening too loud... just like with speakers. You don't have the "closed-in" thing like with regular phones.

Of course, in some situations... like probably a lot of "live" recording situations... this might be considered a fault rather than a feature. :) But working here in my room I like this and also there isn't the fatigue of phones pressing on your ears for long periods of time.

Also, they are *very* inefficient in that they are supposed to be powered directly from the output of a power amp rather than the normal "headphone" output. I've found that some headphone amp outputs will drive them sufficiently though in a pinch... like the Behringer Powerplay.

The detail is amazing really (and accurate).... far beyond what I generally think of for headphones like my Sony 7506's or any that I know of really. I think Bob said it about the 7506's... they're nice to listen to. :) But they don't sound "natural" at all and are not a very good "reference". Some clients like them though. Interestingly enough I find some clients want "real" headphones :rolleyes: .. like the Audiotechnica M-40's... boxes with speakers in them that don't sound natural at all! :eek: They sound like... well.... "headphones".

Mmmm... anyway, the K-1000's are something you'd have to hear I guess... very hard to explain and calling them headphones is a bit of a problem to begin with as they're quite different from what people usually think of as "headphones". If you do a Google search you'll find tons of info and reviews of these. They've been out for a long time and have been heavily reviewed in the audiophile world.

Anyway... I do want to try the V-6's, especially after what you and Bob are saying about them. I'll probably just pick up a pair soon and I'll try to report in here with my subjective opinions. But... as I always say about these things... whatever works! It really doesn't matter in the end so long as whatever you use works for you. :)

Thanks,

Perry

[omaru]

I've been trying to locate a source / supplier in Australia for the V6's but not looking promising so far!, does anyone know of a supplier over here?

Sony Australia does not seem to carry them, it is not in their product listing, perhaps someone does parrallel importing.

:( Cheers.....Robert V.

Hello RobertV

Try jeremy@vinylwarning.com.au
Website: www.vinylwarning.com.au

or audio@bhphotovideo.com (US)

or www.frontendaudio.com (US)

cheers

Denis

[RobertV]

Denis;

Thanks heaps for the info, tried to order from vinylwarning company but no stock, probably finish up getting them from BHphotovideo and include some in-ear monitors as well (ethymotics or shure 2c , can't decide!) to make the freight cost worthwhilel

Cheers...Robert V.:D

[Veit Kenner]

probably finish up getting them from BHphotovideo
Hi Robert,

I just recently ordered from BHphotovideo a pair of V6s for shipment to Europe. The deal went very smooth and fast with quick shipment, tracking and a perfect product. All in all it took me about 4 days to arrival. I can highly recommend BHphotovideo.


Best regards,

Veit

[Mountain Media]

.................
Anyway... I do want to try the V-6's, especially after what you and Bob are saying about them. I'll probably just pick up a pair soon and I'll try to report in here with my subjective opinions. But... as I always say about these things... whatever works! It really doesn't matter in the end so long as whatever you use works for you. :)

Perry
Agree, completely, with 'whatever - works for you'! That's why I've only bought two headphone types, both Sony's. I have problems taking the time to compensate for mixing in different environments, and usually take my V6's with me to other studios, so I can 'reference' to something I kinda know. That's what work's for me! Really, I'm just interested in YOUR impression of V6's ('specially knowing you also got the 7506's), 'cause I appreciate your mixes very much, since hearing SSRN! :)

[Ollie]

Bob and Studioites,
I recently bought a couple new RME HDSP 9652 soundcards for my PC. I am not sure how soundcards work in the notebook world.

Can I still use these cards with a notebook setup?

Thanks. Chucking the big old pc would be pretty sweeeeeeeet!!!!!

[RobertV]

Hi Robert,

I just recently ordered from BHphotovideo a pair of V6s for shipment to Europe. The deal went very smooth and fast with quick shipment, tracking and a perfect product. All in all it took me about 4 days to arrival. I can highly recommend BHphotovideo.


Best regards,

Veit

Veit;

Thanks for the feedback, I'll go with them!

Cheers...Robert V.

[Bob L]

RME provides the Cardbus PCMCIA Hammerfall cards for use in a laptop. Your 9652 cards are PCI cards... laptops don't generally have PCI slots.

You would have to use the CardBus or possibly the newer FireWire cards in a laptop. You may also find some USB cards for laptop use.

Bob L

[Chuck Mitchell]

I use the RME Multiface that Bob recommended years ago with the PCMCIA slot and it works excellent. I have had great luck for many years. The little mixer that comes with it is a bit confusing but very useful once you get the hang of it.