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View Full Version : Question about Echo-widener effect from videos



Jesse Skeens
06-09-2004, 12:13 AM
Bob,

Hi, been watching the videos and I was wondering if you could clarify your technqiue you show in one of them. Its the old stereo widener trick/HAAS.

From what I could tell you set both the left and right sides of the delay to around 20ms. Raise the amount on both (forget the feedback but I assume its low). And then you pan the original signal on the channel fader while sending level on an aux to the echo plug. Is this correct?

Jesse

Bob L
06-09-2004, 01:42 AM
Jesse,

Actually, I usually do this technique on individual tracks directly without tying up an aux send. Another good reason for this is that each kind of instrument or vocal sound requires its own spread and balance adjustment in order to keep the overall mix in balance.

This is a very useful way to create a wide spread in a mix of mostly mono instruments.

Pan the track left or right... patch an echo module into the PST patch (important... it must come after the channel pan). Set the mode to Cross so the echo is output on the opposite side. Delays should be in the 10-30 ms range... the more delay, the wider the spread but you also start affecting the timing... percussive sounds should use small values.

You set the echo level control for the channel the signal is panned to all the way up... you may also bleed the other side in to create different spreads and compensate if your original pan is not all the way to one side.

The Dry signal (vertical control) is the original source sound and you will now need to adjust this down slightly to get a balanced audio effect when you listen. When the audio sounds balanced left/right, you will most likely notice that the channel meter is leaning to one side... this effect is caused by the fact that the ear seems to hear the original signal louder than the delayed signal and you need more delay signal level to create a left/right audible balance.

I usually compensate for this in the overall mix by doing this effect in pairs of instruments... therefore panning one to the left, and the other to the right.

Very nice way to liven up a mix. You will also start getting phase interactions and phantom signals that seem to come out of nowhere, which also help to create ambience in an otherwise drab mix.

Be careful with this technique though... make sure to listen to the final mix between stereo and mono modes to make sure you are not creating total phase cancellation on certain instruments.

Bob L

Jesse Skeens
06-09-2004, 03:00 AM
Great, thanks for the clarification. I heard you say on the video something about the level favoring one side but didn't realize what you mean but now I do.

Am I missing something or is there not shelving options on the eq? I know there is hi snd lo cut but what about boost?

Jesse

TotalSonic
06-09-2004, 07:27 AM
Great, thanks for the clarification. I heard you say on the video something about the level favoring one side but didn't realize what you mean but now I do.

Am I missing something or is there not shelving options on the eq? I know there is hi snd lo cut but what about boost?

Jesse

Jesse -
For shelving eq's I highly recommend the JMS Audioware SAW native Hi-Res EQ. It's 7 bands with options for peak, cut, and shelving filters, fully automatable, has a graphic display of the eq being used, uses double precision 64bit floating point internal math, just as efficient as the console eq, and sounds awesome. $75 from http://www.jms-audioware.com

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Bob L
06-09-2004, 08:37 AM
Jesse,

You can obtain a nice smooth adjustment on the top or bottom end, for example by adjusting the Q factor towards the 3 octave range... not quite the same as Shelving, but very effective in its place.

Otherwise, Jon's plugin or other excellent EQ plugs like the Elemental Audio Equium plugin are the way to go. (www.ElementalAudio.com (http://www.ElementalAudio.com))

Bob L

Jesse Skeens
06-09-2004, 10:39 PM
I'll have to check out that JMS eq. I do have the Voxengo GlissEQ but the dynamic feature of it isn't always a good thing. Theres a really nice sounding eq out for Creamware now too, the ISON.

Jesse