upgrade Waves ?

[Scott P]

This should be an interesting discussion.... :D

I have the Renaissance plugs V 3.0 (that's right, it's not a typo)

Right now there's a sale on the upgrade which adds a few more plugs. I am wondering, since my version is Dx and the new stuff is VST, do I want to upgrade? And now there is the Ilok issue that I don't have presently. Is there a difference in the sound and if there is, do I want it?

Thanks to Dominic, I now have the Sonoris LP EQ, dither and MB Comp. (thanks Dominic!).

So, I don't really need more plugs right now, but I could save some money if it's a good idea.

Thanks in advance! :D
Scott

[Tom Roberts]

You can download demos and decide for yourself if you like them enough to buy them, but will need an iLok for that.

I haven't looked, but you can probably also find Waves stuff for sale "used" with some sort of license registration exchange arrangement.

Thomas

[Grekim]

Which plug-ins are they adding?? RenAxx RenBass RenVox?
I don't really like the Waves plugs much except for the IR-L. But, I haven't tried the newer stuff like the API emulations. The Ren plugs seem to muffle and cloud the sound to me, not a lot, but just enough to be not a first choice.
I doubt they changed how they sound. They probably optimized for different OS's and formats.
If you do upgrade, I would not use both VST and DX because it can cause confusion when you change your system down the road and open and old edl.

[Bill Park]

Waves takes a lot of heat, but I've gotten my moneys worth out of them. I had version 4 of the Platinum Bundle, and I took the 40% off update deal. More plugs, updated plugs, plus the looming 64 bit upgrade which, if it occurs within the year (which they say it will...) will be included in the WUP. It made sense to me, I've never seen the cheaper.... and once the 64 bit version hits, they may have no reason to discount them for a while.

[Chris Kress]

You'll likely lose the DX version in 6.0 or higher. This happened to me for the platinum bundle. So anything you are currently working on will not be recall-able and the DX will be un usable. Waves sometimes will let you leave the older DX plug-ins on for a time. You should call waves sales directly or someone like alto music in NYC. They know whats up..

[Scott P]

I can probably do without the upgrade. These do pretty much what I need, when I need that sound. I was just looking for some opinions.

I am a little concerned about the DX / VST issue. I have ongoing projects that I have time invested in that I don't want to lose because of an upgrade that I don't have a huge use for anyway.

As much as I might like to go on and get the upgrade, just to stay on top of things, I think I'll wait.

Thanks guys,
Scott

[Arnie]

There are some pretty fantastic competitors to Waves out there. Just a thought. That way you could keep your current Waves and add some different/fresh flavors.

[Microstudio]

There are SO MANY plugins out there and every month, year there are more coming out and everyone is updating the ones we already have...... WHY?

Because thats how they make money.

There is no way I would upgrade to the newer Waves stuff its not worth the money and the extra hassle specially when you already have the plugins.

[Tom Roberts]

There is no way I would upgrade to the newer Waves stuff its not worth the money and the extra hassle specially when you already have the plugins.

Except when you upgrade a bundle, you get several more new plug-ins. And the first year of WUP is free with any paid upgrade or purchase, so you get any new plug-ins that may be added added to that bundle, and there usually are a few more every year.

Yes, that's their marketing plan to get you to come along for the ride, but it's better than a simple upgrade on a single plug-in for a fee.

Other than that, there is no reason to upgrade, except maybe in the OP's situation where he is on version 3, which is really, really old and DX.

Thomas

[Microstudio]

Except when you upgrade a bundle, you get several more new plug-ins. And the first year of WUP is free with any paid upgrade or purchase, so you get any new plug-ins that may be added added to that bundle, and there usually are a few more every year.

Yes, that's their marketing plan to get you to come along for the ride, but it's better than a simple upgrade on a single plug-in for a fee.

Other than that, there is no reason to upgrade, except maybe in the OP's situation where he is on version 3, which is really, really old and DX.

Thomas

All I have to say in rebuttal is 1960, 70's analog gear is going up in cost, nothing new about the gear and there are tons of studios still using their 70's gear. The whole plugin thing to me is out of control.... how many tracks, plugins did the Beatles have?

Anyway its just my 2 cents and I can say that once and a while a new plugin comes along that I go and get and most likely rarely ever use...:o

[Tom Roberts]

All I have to say in rebuttal is 1960, 70's analog gear is going up in cost, nothing new about the gear and there are tons of studios still using their 70's gear. The whole plugin thing to me is out of control.... how many tracks, plugins did the Beatles have?


I wonder how many digital drum sets with dozens of toms and cybal pads and sample libraries the Beatles had? None. And yet they had a wide range of drum sounds.

To each their own.;)

Thomas

[Dave Labrecque]

And yet they had a wide range of drum sounds.



Not sure if I'd go along with that. Or... was that your point?

[Bill Park]

All I have to say in rebuttal is 1960, 70's analog gear is going up in cost, nothing new about the gear and there are tons of studios still using their 70's gear. The whole plugin thing to me is out of control.... how many tracks, plugins did the Beatles have?


I think you're wrong about this. As the people who maybe cared about the Beatles... like me... retire there is less and less interest in the band and how they got their sounds. The whole 60s/70s vibe is wearing out, for a couple of reasons. One, the stuff is rarer and rarer. Two, the copies are 'good enough' for the younger crowd who never used the real thing in the real setting. Everybody is happy with copies and emulations and things that are not remotely like, however happen to be named after or close to, a piece of 'vintage' gear. So long as they are cheap. So lots and lots of clones and copies and wanna-bees will be sold, but it won't have much to do with anything remotely sounding like the Beatles.

And technically, the Beatles didn't have any studio gear, EMI did and EMI hired the operators who used the gear. Their time frame has them transiting through a lot of equipment, and that equipment overlapped. So what is the point?

Meanwhile, we've all made our choices about plugs verses hardware. For those who have chosen plugs, Waves has turned out to be a good choice. You want to whine about costs? Okay, don't buy them. Fair enough. I sure wish that the new Audi was not $125,000, but if I want one, that is what I will have to pay. But many of the Waves competitors which were touted as being so great were unable to stay in business. We're on the verge of 64 bit audio computing. My Waves will be upgraded for free, because I'm paying for the WUP. As it works out though, as I've bought the update and gotten the WUP for free, and saved 40% on the update because of the current special. How can anyone who is a Waves user find fault with that?

[Cary B. Cornett]

When I was learning the craft, the studios I worked in had 1176's, LA-2A's, and other "vintage" gear. I used them, not because they were "cool", but because that was what was available to me. I got whatever sounds I could out of whatever gear was there. For a long time, engineers everywhere simply worked with whatever tools were available, and got the best sounds they could.

Now I work with what I have, and get the sounds I can, just as before, only the tools are different, starting with SawStudio. I have never felt the urge to get any of the modeled emulations of the vintage gear I worked with before. Will I get the same sounds I got in the old studios? No. Can I get good sounds, things that are worth hearing? Certainly.

Oh. Wait. This is supposed to be about getting the great sounds of past engineers and artists, isn't it? Well, it ain't gonna happen. I'm not Alan Parsons or Bruce Swedien or (your favorite engineer here), so I won't get their sounds, even if I had all of the same equipment. I am only me, and I am only going to get the sounds I get with my ears, my methods, and my abilities, such as they are.

It is not my job to be somebody else. It is my job to be me, and to try to make clients happy with what I do. If I make enough of the right people happy, one day my name might become a "brand" in its own right. If that day comes, and other people research what I used and buy it so they can be like me, I will laugh and shake my head over it.

So, Waves or whatever tool or vintage emulation du jour, if the tool does something you like, buy it, but not because somebody else uses it. If it becomes too expensive or too clunky of whatever... find something else. That's what I did, and I don't regret it.

[Microstudio]

I think you're wrong about this. As the people who maybe cared about the Beatles... like me... retire there is less and less interest in the band and how they got their sounds. The whole 60s/70s vibe is wearing out, for a couple of reasons. One, the stuff is rarer and rarer. Two, the copies are 'good enough' for the younger crowd who never used the real thing in the real setting. Everybody is happy with copies and emulations and things that are not remotely like, however happen to be named after or close to, a piece of 'vintage' gear. So long as they are cheap. So lots and lots of clones and copies and wanna-bees will be sold, but it won't have much to do with anything remotely sounding like the Beatles.

And technically, the Beatles didn't have any studio gear, EMI did and EMI hired the operators who used the gear. Their time frame has them transiting through a lot of equipment, and that equipment overlapped. So what is the point?

Meanwhile, we've all made our choices about plugs verses hardware. For those who have chosen plugs, Waves has turned out to be a good choice. You want to whine about costs? Okay, don't buy them. Fair enough. I sure wish that the new Audi was not $125,000, but if I want one, that is what I will have to pay. But many of the Waves competitors which were touted as being so great were unable to stay in business. We're on the verge of 64 bit audio computing. My Waves will be upgraded for free, because I'm paying for the WUP. As it works out though, as I've bought the update and gotten the WUP for free, and saved 40% on the update because of the current special. How can anyone who is a Waves user find fault with that?

Using the Beatles is just a way to show that they did not have all the things we have to day and they made great music. I know they used a studio and did not own the stuff, hell EMI had to make the stuff on the fly back then. My point is I think we all get caught up in all the stuff out there too often and it takes us away from the main thing which is the instruments and making music with them.

I find no fault with upgrading hell I do it myself.... I think 5.0 is coming soon.

[Bill Park]

I am only me, and I am only going to get the sounds I get with my ears, my methods, and my abilities, such as they are. ...It is not my job to be somebody else. It is my job to be me, and to try to make clients happy with what I do...

Which is how I successfully marketed my room for all those years... not on what I owned, but on what I could do. I keep saying, it ain't about the gear, anyone with deeper pockets can buy better stuff.

When I switched from tape to SAW what the clients got was faster work. I got the ability to bang out hundreds of edits in the time it used to take to do tens of edits, and the edits were more precise.

When I switched from a mixture of analog effects and the SAW Effects Rack 1 to all ITB effects, what the clients got was again, faster work. I got to give them more choices, I got to use the effect on more than one track, and I got more effects.

But I didn't try to sell the fact that I had XXXXX, I sold ME. In the end, moving to the computer was an advantage to ME. It obviously worked for the clients too, but I did it to regain more of my time.

What i see now are a lot of guys who have tons of effects and such, unable to make up their minds about what to use where, what edit to make when, and they are spending MORE time, not LESS time to get the work done. That just doesn't make any sense. Better tools should not make the job harder, longer, or more arduous.

[Bill Park]

Using the Beatles is just a way to show that they did not have all the things we have to day and they made great music. I know they used a studio and did not own the stuff, hell EMI had to make the stuff on the fly back then. My point is I think we all get caught up in all the stuff out there too often and it takes us away from the main thing which is the instruments and making music with them.

I find no fault with upgrading hell I do it myself.... I think 5.0 is coming soon.

There is a balance between talent and gear. It isn't a matter of one or the other, it is a synergy among the parts.

i constantly run into guys who want to get big dollar sounds without spending big dollars. Okay. But they don't want to spend any dollars. Well, now it is getting kinda rough. Most of us are not going to be able to duplicate the sounds gotten on the last Rolling Stones album recorded at the best studios money can buy using the best instruments money can buy being played by the best studio musicians money can buy in our 8x10 spare bedrooms using the cheapest computers, software, interfaces, mics, instruments, and sample packs we could find. They should either step up to the plate and get what they need (like everyone else who is serious and has made the commitment) or STFU.

But the point about not trying to be like someone else... it is great to have heroes and people to inspire you to get better. That no longer seems to be the goal. "Getting better" and creating something has gotten lost in the scramble to copy...

[Microstudio]

There is a balance between talent and gear. It isn't a matter of one or the other, it is a synergy among the parts.

i constantly run into guys who want to get big dollar sounds without spending big dollars. Okay. But they don't want to spend any dollars. Well, now it is getting kinda rough. Most of us are not going to be able to duplicate the sounds gotten on the last Rolling Stones album recorded at the best studios money can buy using the best instruments money can buy being played by the best studio musicians money can buy in our 8x10 spare bedrooms using the cheapest computers, software, interfaces, mics, instruments, and sample packs we could find. They should either step up to the plate and get what they need (like everyone else who is serious and has made the commitment) or STFU.

But the point about not trying to be like someone else... it is great to have heroes and people to inspire you to get better. That no longer seems to be the goal. "Getting better" and creating something has gotten lost in the scramble to copy...

Agree!

[Arnie]

The ears are 90***37; of the battle, but like a guitar with poor action, poor effects can hold you back from reaching the next level in your mixes.

There comes a point where you've got to spend to get the good stuff. However in the case of plugins, there are many competitive options that sound as good or better than the hyper-expensive ones. So it's possible to redirect some of that cash into far more important things like room acoustics, quality instruments, microphones, etc.