I need more tracks ... plz

[ranger1970]

I purchased SAW studio Basic, and i can only record 24 tracks... i need more... is there something i'm missing? I cant believe that in order to get more tracks i need to 1200 - 2500 $$. Maybe more tracks can be added in a patch or something. It says that i have 8 stereo output tracks also... well i dont understand what im sposed to do with those since they dont work like regular tracks.

Bob? Can you add 10 more tracks for the not so rich ppl out here ?? maybe in the next patch... I'd.... We'd really appreciate it.

P.S. if theres any way at all to add more tracks or chop the 24 tracks in half and create more tracks ourselves plz let me know... SAW is the king... im just not rich enough for the more expensive version.

Thanks.

[AudioAstronomer]

By ordering through a VIP (such as myself :)) You can purchase SS lite for 600$

you can also do submixes of various styles and the like.

[Bob L]

Basic is designed for basic recording work... more tracks and more features come with the Lite and Full versions... it's pretty simple really... kind of like having to pay a little extra for the Leather seats and the high power engine and power options in your new car. :)

There should be no surprises... its pretty clearly explained on the product pages what the features of each version are... and you were encouraged to download the demos before purchasing so you would know exactly what you were buying into.

Moving up to Lite is a very easy move. Through one of the VIP's you get a nice discount... if your budget is tight... look at the Good Faith Agreement... you can move up for only $200 out of pocket immediate expense... the rest can be paid for over time... its a great way to go... and many people are jumping on board that way.

Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

Also, keep in mind if you have any mono tracks being panned hard, you can mix them to stereo fairly easily to save tracks.

Editing your tracks and overlapping and using automation works very well too.

I find it pretty hard to use that many tracks, it can build up on some of my very complex projects (which is well, a lot of them) but I always find a way to make due... there's always a way somehow :)

[Leadfoot]

I cant believe that in order to get more tracks i need to 1200 - 2500 $$.

You could get a 2" 24 track tape machine for about 80 grand, then call Otari and ask them for another one for free. Maybe they'll throw in the 48 tracks of dolby just for fun too.


SAW is the king... Thanks.

That won't work either..

Tony

[Shawn]

Back when my main setup was an 8 or 16 track reel to reel, submixing was the ticket for getting more out of the machines, of course, a submix also places some limitations on what could be done with the submix, going back to redo a submix after adding more tracks was extremely difficult at best, and usually would require retracking anything that had been recorded after the submix, at each submix point there would also be the inevitable degradation of the recorded audio itself, a great deal of detailed planning had to go into this process.

Digital HD recording is a very different animal, with the convenience of absolute recall and automation, ANY and EVERY important point in the tracking and submixing process can be easily saved as a seperate edl, this allows for going back to a submix edl to make changes, you can even save any redone submixes as seperate edls, allowing you to go back to what ever version you like best, then you can import the new submix into an empty track in the current working version of the song and compare it to the first submix, the really nice part is that among all related edl's, at all points throughout the song's progress, as long as you don't shift things around in the timeline, everything will always be in sync, this loss of sync was a major drawback to bouncing to an external machine with analog, and of course the big drawback to bouncing on the same machine would be the loss of the original tracks as they were recorded over to add new parts, making going back impossible.

If used with a little forethought and care, submixing to free up tracks can be a very effective method for getting the most out of SSB, it would require an organized method to keep a handle on each edl as you work thru each session.

:)

[Craig Allen]

A lot of clasic rock tunes were recorded on 4 track and then 8 track and have held up over time - improvise like those guys did. Make decisions, consolidate.

[tomasino]

:eek:!

[SoundSuite]

It says that i have 8 stereo output tracks also... well i dont understand what im sposed to do with those since they dont work like regular tracks.

They are 'Output'.
If you have 16(8 stereo) device outputs, you can route each Output Channel to each one of your Output Devices for surround sound mixing, external monitor mixes of effects feeds, etc.
They are outputs of tracks, not tracks themselves to record on.


On your other question, like everyone said, save an edl, and 'bounce'.

[Dave Labrecque]

This might sound crazy (it probably is) but does Basic have timecode sync capability? You could always try two instances of SAW on your machine. I think you can trigger one from the other using MTC and some creativity. Just be sure you're using different I/O devices for each.

I know, I'm nuts.

[mghtx]

Having 24 tracks forces me to be creative. It's really not a show stopper. Just bounce when needed and keep backups.

[ranger1970]

ok, thanx for the replies... The only way i've been able to have more tracks is to be very creative... I use all 24 tracks then mixdown , start fresh add the mt soundfile to the track and continue on from there... 23 new tracks... Is this a bad idea? Will it hurt the sound quality if i mix down the same song twice?


Thanks

PS in your video segment, if you would include the actual key combination of keystrokes used to perform some of the operations (instead of saying "with a keystroke") that would really help me figure this program out more. You did some incredible stuff with SAW, but now i need to read up and hopefully find what you did. <---- I had previously removed this from the thread but someone caught it... so its back now... I'm watching some of your tutorial videos right now.. and this is one of the techniques i was trying to figure out...

http://www.sawstudio.com/Tutorials/SAWStudio/UsingTheMultiTrack/BasicEditingTechniques.html

so its all here just gotta track it down


once again thanx again for making this incredible program Bob.

[Bob L]

That is an extreme method of getting more tracks... try submixing grouped items like drums, back vocals, horns... etc... and save the edls along the way in case you need to go back for one of those submixes and change something. You can always simply blend back in a new submix of horns for instance.

This is standard operating procedure for large projects like film sound design... effects, dialog, music... etc are saved in Stem mixes and then the final mix is done with those.

How many tracks do you really need??? you have 24 stereo tracks... that is the equivalent of two 24 track 2 inch machines that can cost tens of thousands of dollars each... what kind of music are you doing that requires so many tracks???

Be careful of over producing... and if all your sessions are really that large, what are you doing with Basic? For the price of one decent 2 track deck you could be using SAWStudio Full with 72 stereo tracks... would that be enough? :)

Bob L

[Burkeville]

I never regretted spending the money to buy the full version of SAWStudio.

In my experience in operating recording studios I think it was the best money I ever spent. Well worth it at the recording complex and at home.

kb

[Westwind]

I know you've probably heard enough on this by now, but I'd thought I'd chime in on your track issue. I, too, am a little suprised that 24 'stereo' tracks aren't enough for you. There are many good solutions posted, but it seems the most obvious one wasn't. I almost never needed 24 tracks, and I've done all kinds of music. Like Bob, I wonder what kind of music you're doing, and if, perhaps, you're overproducing. Anyway, the easiest way to consolidate tracks could be to place similar items in the same tracks. i.e cymbals, and metallic percussion. Most other percussion. The automation features allow you make neccesary adjutments to levels and eq. Chances are you've go a lot of unused area in the multi-track. Nothing says that every individual sound or instrument has to have its own track. Something eles I did in my SawPlus days, and still do: if you're using live drums, and stereo cymbals come in on two mono tracks, merge them to one stereo track. Same thing thing with 3, 4 or more tom tracks. Merge to stereo. Besides saving tracks, it make your mixing process easier. Just some thoughts. Hope it helps.

[ranger1970]

Bob,

I'm just a newbie at this program. I use one track for small stuff like 1 voice or a drum part ... every piece of my song has 1 track... im getting better and after watching your videos last night I was able to see other ways of creating the same effects of 1 track as with 2 or 3 tracks... so like i said im just a newb but getting better everyday... 24 tracks should be enough i just need to get more experience with SAW.

Thanks again,

[kent]

For the price of one decent 2 track deck you could be using SAWStudio Full with 72 stereo tracks... would that be enough? :)

Bob L

That one made me laugh out loud.



PS in your video segment, if you would include the actual key combination of keystrokes used to perform some of the operations (instead of saying "with a keystroke") that would really help me figure this program out more. You did some incredible stuff with SAW, but now i need to read up and hopefully find what you did.

Quite true. I remember thinking the same thing while I was watching the same video for the sixth time trying to figure out the exact process Bob was doing the get those cool results (so quickly) on screen. My alternative is to exhaustively search the; 1) Manual, 2) Online help file, 3) User Forum 4) IQS threads 5)Trial and Error + Verifiy (damn long process).

Just thought I'd ante-up

Kent

[Dave Labrecque]

Having 24 tracks forces me to be creative. It's really not a show stopper. Just bounce when needed and keep backups. Can you imagine what The Beatles would have thought if they heard this back in '67? :eek:

[Sean McCoy]

If George Martin had had 72 stereo tracks, he'd still be mixing Sgt. Pepper's today.

[Bob L]

Glad to hear you are having to search the helpfile to find out how I did something in the video... anything that gets you to read the helpfile is a blessing in disguise. :)

Actually, better than searching through it is to simply sit down and read it like a short novel... I have said this many times before... its only a few hours of reading and I guarentee that you will come out with dozens if not hundreds of new things that will definitely save you more than the reading time in every new session you do.

Also, note that the few videos that are there so far are mostly sales oriented videos to get people excited about what SAWStudio can do... they were not really scripted as training videos where I would be showing or telling the keystroke details.

Bob L

[earthpig]

This is a good book if you are interested in george martin and the making of sgt pepper :

Summer of Love: The Making of Sgt.Pepper

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/033034210X/qid=1106686444/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_0_1/026-7774896-6346822

[Arco]

Make each track an instrument rather than a section of the tune. Not sure if this is what you're doing but i've seen it before:

tracks 1-5 were "Intro Guitars" and
6-10 were "Verse 1 Guitars" ..and so on.
you can go through a lot of tracks quickly ;)

Better to have one instrument per track and make good use of punching and soft edges to keep the integrity of a single instrument playing through the tune. Much easier to mix too..

[ranger1970]

Thanx Arco,

If someone has the answer to this question, i may not have any more questions for a while. Ok, I've learned how to chop sections of tracks up into seperate sections for editing or moving or whatever... but

Q: Is there a way to add volume to each little chopped section? I need to make one small section a little louder than the rest of the tracks on the same track

[conleec]

"Is there a way to add volume to each little chopped section? I need to make one small section a little louder than the rest of the tracks on the same track..."

Do some lookin' at the "automation" sections of the tutorial/manual. You can automate just about any parameter of your mix, either over time, or instantaneously.

Chris

[ranger1970]

Thanx Conleec,

Thats a start in the right direction at least.

[Naturally Digital]

"Is there a way to add volume to each little chopped section? I need to make one small section a little louder than the rest of the tracks on the same track..."

Do some lookin' at the "automation" sections of the tutorial/manual. You can automate just about any parameter of your mix, either over time, or instantaneously.Yup. You can select a range by tabbing to the beginning of the region in question, hit B to mark the beginning, tab to the end of the same region and hit E to mark the end of your range. Engage AUT mode, grab the fader for that track and push it up a little. Disengage AUT mode and you're done.

[RobertV]

Perhaps this is silly but does SS Basic have Layers? and if yes, are they being used as intended or does each take go to a new track? Just wonderin!
As mentioned repeatedly in the responses, 24 stereo tracks is a lot. Very often less is more in my humble opinion.

Enjoy the journey!

Robert V. ;)

[Bob L]

No layers in Basic.

Bob L