Sac use with the same band

[Dan Fulton]

Just wondering how much would the setting of eq and such would have to change from venue to venue with the same band. I know the house eq foh eq would have to change some. but as far as the other settings i would think it would be just a tweek or too here and there and should be good to go?

Just started helping a band mix and i know with the analog mix things been working in radio since highschool and dj/bar sound installments for the last 12 years and playin and record various bands since highschool.

Just wanted to hear from some of you guys that do this alot more than I do

[ADMsystems]

One way to look at it is to consider that when you "tune" a system using pink noise, program material, etc, you are attempting to set the PA to reproduce your reference material as linear as possible. Meaning the PA and room interactions neither adds to or subtracts from what you run through it. Or are at least minimized. Forget about system tweaks that are more to taste than accurate reproduction for a moment. When you use your favorite pre-recorded music to tune a system, you don't reach for the channel EQ to make adjustments but rather go to the system EQ or Drive to make the changes...right? So, my point is, you will find that fewer changes to the input EQ's are needed from room to room, venue to venue if you are able to tune the PA as linear as possible or at least as close as possible to the system/room response you felt gave you the best sounding mix. This obviously is an oversimplified comment to a much more complex issue but maybe it will give you something to think about.

[dbarrow]

One way to look at it is to consider that when you "tune" a system using pink noise, program material, etc, you are attempting to set the PA to reproduce your reference material as linear as possible. Meaning the PA and room interactions neither adds to or subtracts from what you run through it. Or are at least minimized. Forget about system tweaks that are more to taste than accurate reproduction for a moment. When you use your favorite pre-recorded music to tune a system, you don't reach for the channel EQ to make adjustments but rather go to the system EQ or Drive to make the changes...right? So, my point is, you will find that fewer changes to the input EQ's are needed from room to room, venue to venue if you are able to tune the PA as linear as possible or at least as close as possible to the system/room response you felt gave you the best sounding mix. This obviously is an oversimplified comment to a much more complex issue but maybe it will give you something to think about.Amen. When you break it down into those two components: room/system EQ for accurate/pleasing reproduction and the EQ and channel settings needed to get the band mix where you want it through the accurate reproduction setting; the rest is easy. We do this with The Pictures Band, that plays a non-stop string of corporate parties, weddings and fundraiser functions through our own system and other existing systems up to huge line-array systems at concert-type venues. As long as whatever system we play through (including our own) is setup properly, we can just send the system a stereo feed (plus sub) and practically turn it on a sound great from the beginning. We did this with our analog stuff before SAC, but the recall of SAC, as well as all the other features, has perfected this to the nth degree.

[IraSeigel]

I'm not sure you can answer Dan's question without considering some very basic issues:

INPUTS?? Dan mentions nothing about whether his band travels with their own mics and DIs. To answer his question by just addressing room EQ or PA EQ is, well, silly. Depending on the mics used, gain and EQ for each individual channel will change. You can't have a singer on a Beta 58 one night and an 845 the next night and expect to have the same input gain and EQ. Ditto for drum mics, active vs passive DIs, etc.

BACKLINE? Dan doesn't mention that his band is traveling with their own backline either. If they're doing corporate dates and have lots of traveling, there's a possibility that the event is providing backline. So not knowing if their drummer, for example, is playing with the same kit every night means you can't just assume that the EQ from Drumkit A will transfer to Drumkit B on another stage.

Come on people. You know this stuff. It's basic. Consider all the factors before providing advice.

Ira

[Warren]

I'm not sure you can answer Dan's question without considering some very basic issues:

INPUTS?? Dan mentions nothing about whether his band travels with their own mics and DIs. To answer his question by just addressing room EQ or PA EQ is, well, silly. Depending on the mics used, gain and EQ for each individual channel will change. You can't have a singer on a Beta 58 one night and an 845 the next night and expect to have the same input gain and EQ. Ditto for drum mics, active vs passive DIs, etc.

BACKLINE? Dan doesn't mention that his band is traveling with their own backline either. If they're doing corporate dates and have lots of traveling, there's a possibility that the event is providing backline. So not knowing if their drummer, for example, is playing with the same kit every night means you can't just assume that the EQ from Drumkit A will transfer to Drumkit B on another stage.

Come on people. You know this stuff. It's basic. Consider all the factors before providing advice.

Ira

Preach it Brother! ;)

[ADMsystems]

This obviously is an oversimplified comment to a much more complex issue but maybe it will give you something to think about.

Enough said.

[IraSeigel]

Enough said.

So if it's "oversimplified", it's not of much use, is it?

[jlklein]

Dan, this actually reminds me of one of Dave Rat's YouTube videos, "How To EQ a Live Sound Reinforcement System". Basically what he describes is that, all things equal, from the mics/instruments to cabling to mixer/processing to speakers/amps to headphones (for reference), the differences that you hear from room to room will be due to the speakers locations and the room itself. So, in essence, if you do use the same equipment and rig for each gig, you should have a very good "starting point" from which to tweak your house or system EQ for those one-offs and time-crunch gigs.

Now, as has also been said, if any of your setup is different, especially mics and instruments, all bets are off. And even if all things are the same, the condition of the instruments, and players/singers, and the environmental conditions of the room (heat and humidity) will also have effects on the sound.

So I guess to answer your question, yes, all things being the same, you should have a decent starting point, but just a starting point ;)

HTH,
Jeff

[TomyN]

Well, I think it depends also on the size of the venue and the kind of monitoring.
In smaller venues you'll always face an addition of your FoH mix, the monitor mix (in the case no in ear is used) and the sound of the backline.

Even if you could manage to get your FoH system to sound similar in all the different venues (which is possible when you got experience, measurement equipment and time), the amount (and the frequencyresponse) of the additional sound will vary, depending on the position of the musicans, amps and monitors.
So you'll need to readjust your settings, both related to volume and to equing.

To be able to use your stored settings as a starting point, you'll need to know what is a source related problem (and therefore will stay the same, so you should correct it using the channel eq) and which is a room related problem (and therefore will change in an other location, so you should address it with the master eq).

Tomy

[dbarrow]

I'm not sure you can answer Dan's question without considering some very basic issues:

INPUTS?? Dan mentions nothing about whether his band travels with their own mics and DIs. To answer his question by just addressing room EQ or PA EQ is, well, silly. Depending on the mics used, gain and EQ for each individual channel will change. You can't have a singer on a Beta 58 one night and an 845 the next night and expect to have the same input gain and EQ. Ditto for drum mics, active vs passive DIs, etc.

BACKLINE? Dan doesn't mention that his band is traveling with their own backline either. If they're doing corporate dates and have lots of traveling, there's a possibility that the event is providing backline. So not knowing if their drummer, for example, is playing with the same kit every night means you can't just assume that the EQ from Drumkit A will transfer to Drumkit B on another stage.

Come on people. You know this stuff. It's basic. Consider all the factors before providing advice.

IraSorry. We use the same mics and DI's every time. Obviously, different mics, DI, instruments, etc. could change everything downstream.

[dbarrow]

I'm not sure you can answer Dan's question without considering some very basic issues:

INPUTS?? Dan mentions nothing about whether his band travels with their own mics and DIs. To answer his question by just addressing room EQ or PA EQ is, well, silly. Depending on the mics used, gain and EQ for each individual channel will change. You can't have a singer on a Beta 58 one night and an 845 the next night and expect to have the same input gain and EQ. Ditto for drum mics, active vs passive DIs, etc.

BACKLINE? Dan doesn't mention that his band is traveling with their own backline either. If they're doing corporate dates and have lots of traveling, there's a possibility that the event is providing backline. So not knowing if their drummer, for example, is playing with the same kit every night means you can't just assume that the EQ from Drumkit A will transfer to Drumkit B on another stage.

Come on people. You know this stuff. It's basic. Consider all the factors before providing advice.

IraRegarding backline: we use the same stuff every time. Everything goes direct, Roland V-Drums, etc. We are trying to standardize a fly-out package, where we can rent keyboard controllers, V-Drum pads, etc., but keep all the guitars, sounds and mixing the same. So far, we have just sent out truck to wherever we play, so the equipment is the same.

I just bought a Fractal Audio Systems Axe-FX and I'm trying to get one of the guitar players to get one for his position in the band. The other guitar player has a Line-6 Variax. The keyboard sounds could possibly be migrated to a Muse Receptor.

[Dan Fulton]

well to answer the questions brought up.

The band owns there own pa mics in ear and wedge moniters.
guitars are gibson les pauls and fender bass
drums would be the hard part right now they don't have a normal drum but 3 that they are rotating around when there availible

I understand the rooms acoustic thing. but i guess i will throw this out in to the mix.

I know a few people don't like the drive rack PA but that is what i got to work with. I also know that setting up the auto eq on it would work the best with the room full of people (but that will never happen)

but even with that starting point of EQing the room with the C weight on every venue that we play that should give a good starting point and then tweeks to the mix and house stuff when people are there and the show is going on.

Just grabbing some tips from you guys. so any little things i can pick up will help

Dan