Motherboards

[Tim Miskimon]

Any motherboards out there these days with 4 PCI slots?
I'm planning on building a new computer sometime this year and don't want to have to off my RMI, UAD 1 or my CARD Deluxe card which I use as an in/out for 88.2 recording of mix downs.
I've been very happy with my last 3 ASUS based systems but my studio machine is 6 years old now so it's getting to be that time again.

By the way I have Windows 7 on my laptop for playback of stereo tracks for some live stuff but I'm still using Windows XP for my studio machines.
Anybody having any luck using Windows 7 and recording & playing back 50 or so tracks?

[Dave Labrecque]

Any motherboards out there these days with 4 PCI slots?
I'm planning on building a new computer sometime this year and don't want to have to off my RMI, UAD 1 or my CARD Deluxe card which I use as an in/out for 88.2 recording of mix downs.
I've been very happy with my last 3 ASUS based systems but my studio machine is 6 years old now so it's getting to be that time again.

By the way I have Windows 7 on my laptop for playback of stereo tracks for some live stuff but I'm still using Windows XP for my studio machines.
Anybody having any luck using Windows 7 and recording & playing back 50 or so tracks?

I thought I found a cool deal when I bought my new i7 system from Costco (ibuypower.com brand box) -- it was said to have 3 PCI slots. But it came with 2. D'oh!

Good luck finding a 4-PCI-slot mobo that'll take your processor of choice. Not sure if they're still out there for newer processors. Hope so!

[905shmick]

If you happen to have half height PCI cards, you can get PCIe to PCI adapters that will allow them to work in PCIe slots.

I doubt most sound cards are half height, but ya never know.

[Perry]

Hi Tim,

Though I may well end up waiting a little while longer, I've been looking at mobos and processors too, with the idea of a major upgrade. My 'old' Asus P5W DH Deluxe still works great but OTOH is getting on and starting to feel a little 'ancient' now. :rolleyes:

In any case, as I've looked I've seen new mobos with 2 PCI slots, or 1 PCI or.... NO PCI slots! I've seen nothing so far with 3 or more... though maybe there's 'something' out there.. I sure hope! :eek:

As it stands right now I need minimally 3 PCI slots.... and so far haven't even seen that in the newest mobos!

In order to move forward with this I may have do other major hardware changes and move some stuff away from PCI and over to PCIE. Still figuring on this but it's looking to be a fairly expensive move in order to get into all the latest goodies.. Whew! It gets a little daunting! :)

So yes... good luck with finding 4 PCI slots on new boards!!! :eek:

Let us know what you find! I'm sure there are a lot of us in that same boat!

Best of luck with it!
Perry

[Tom Roberts]

In any case, as I've looked I've seen new mobos with 2 PCI slots, or 1 PCI or.... NO PCI slots! I've seen nothing so far with 3 or more... though maybe there's 'something' out there.. I sure hope! :eek:

As it stands right now I need minimally 3 PCI slots.... and so far haven't even seen that in the newest mobos!


I've seen several. Some take the i7, some take the AMD CPUs, and I believe some take the Core 2 Duo Intels. I believe they were made by Asus and Gigabyte.

I can't go into detail because I don't remember, but they are out there. I suspect they are discontinued NOS and once off the shelf gone forever, so I suggest you move fast.

I'm in the same boat needing at least three, four would be better.

Thomas

[905shmick]

The ASUS P7F-C/4L (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131632) has 4 PCI-X and 2 PCI-e slots and supports LGA 1156 socket processors.

You're welcome :D

[Perry]

Thanks for the info and links guys... for real!

My thing with this is that when I do upgrade I would (of course!) like to get the latest thing... with things like USB 3.0 and that would accept the latest CPU offerings.

I think that would be LGA1366 boards.. right? Or maybe not... I don't know for sure.

I used to be up on all this but haven't kept up in quite a while and just starting to get back up to speed again. sigh.. LOL! Well... I'm going to keep sorting through it but good to see that there are at least some boards with more PCI slots that are up the chain a ways.

I'm going to have to get really serious about thinking this out before I make a move. Because I'll be stuck with my decisions for a while likely! It would make sense to get off the PCI band wagon now, rather than later... but it sure is costly to go replacing otherwise perfectly good hardware... darn! :eek:

Thanks again for the help!
Perry

[Rick Spence]

supermicro makes nice workstation boards.

http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/4U/7046/SYS-7046A-T.cfm

This is a beast and quiet. Good for a situation where you do both audio and video editing. Probably overkill for audio only...but you do get your 3 PCI slots.

Having the hot swap drives is very nice too.

[Perry]

supermicro makes nice workstation boards.

http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/4U/7046/SYS-7046A-T.cfm

This is a beast and quiet. Good for a situation where you do both audio and video editing. Probably overkill for audio only...but you do get your 3 PCI slots.

Having the hot swap drives is very nice too.

WOW! Yes, that definitely looks nice! But as you say probably overkill.

I'm going to think this out and might take a different approach. Maybe I can rearrange things so that I don't need 3 PCI? Going to look into that option a little more. In the meantime there is no panic on my part... my current rig runs great. And if need be I can certainly wait a bit longer while I migrate a few changes.

As to the motherboard socket types, I've been researching a little more.

Forgive me if there are errors but I believe this is correct and this looks to be the lowdown as best I've been able to find out:

LGA1155 is the 'new' socket for the newest Intel CPU's.. with LGA2011 socket for enthusiast-class CPU's maybe by the end of next summer.

LGA 1155 makes LGA 1156 obsolete.

LGA 1366 'was' the newest thing and may get at least one more new CPU update before it expires... but a 'dead man walking' already though it appears.

LGA 1156 seems dead in the water as far as I can tell. This doesn't make someone's rig stop working of course but maybe not a good investment going forward either as far as future upgrading goes.

Oh well! At least they keep 'em coming! :-)

Perry

[Perry]

Well... this seems promising... 3 PCI Slots on new LGA1155 motherboards:

http://www.ncixus.com/products/57830/GA-H67A-UD3H/Gigabyte/

http://www.ncixus.com/products/58015/P8P67/ASUS/

http://www.ncixus.com/products/57213/P67A-C45/MSI%2FMicroStar/

http://www.ncixus.com/products/57513/P67A-C43/MSI%2FMicroStar/

http://www.ncixus.com/products/57513/P67A-C43/MSI%2FMicroStar/

Sorry though Tim.. not seeing anything with 4 slots so far.

Cheers,
Perry

[Trackzilla]

worst case, you might be able to adapt extra PCIe slots with an adapter.
10 seconds with google turned up many...here's the single slot one it showed first:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158165

for a more comprehensive, and expensive, solution...these guys make an external box that will house several PCI or PCIe cards and run them from one PCIe slot:
http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/pci-adapters-c205.html

I found this stuff while looking for a way to use my MOTU 424e with my laptop expresscard slot...ended up deciding to try an ebay adapter that was cheap (which brings up the concept of, look there as well & you might find a deal)...I'll know in a few days if mine was a well spent $30 or not. Wish me luck ;)

[Dave Labrecque]

worst case, you might be able to adapt extra PCIe slots with an adapter.
10 seconds with google turned up many...here's the single slot one it showed first:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815158165

for a more comprehensive, and expensive, solution...these guys make an external box that will house several PCI or PCIe cards and run them from one PCIe slot:
http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/pci-adapters-c205.html

I found this stuff while looking for a way to use my MOTU 424e with my laptop expresscard slot...ended up deciding to try an ebay adapter that was cheap (which brings up the concept of, look there as well & you might find a deal)...I'll know in a few days if mine was a well spent $30 or not. Wish me luck ;)

TZ -- let us know how you make out. Please. :)

[905shmick]

I wouldn't say LGA 1156 is dead by any stretch of the imagination.

[Tom Roberts]

I'm going to have to get really serious about thinking this out before I make a move. Because I'll be stuck with my decisions for a while likely! It would make sense to get off the PCI band wagon now, rather than later... but it sure is costly to go replacing otherwise perfectly good hardware... darn! :eek:


I'm in the same boat. The PCIe hardware doesn't perform "better" than my PCI versions, for my purposes.

I suspect that PCIe is not the end of the story either, the way things have been going, and may likely be replaced with something faster in the not so distant future. So I think I can squeeze two or three more good years out of my PCI stuff. So for around a grand, maybe less, I can get a screaming box that will get me through a couple of years when another major overhaul will be required.

But as I said before, I think the PCI mobo supply is dwindling as we speak.

Thomas

[905shmick]

I'm in the same boat. The PCIe hardware doesn't perform "better" than my PCI versions, for my purposes.

I suspect that PCIe is not the end of the story either, the way things have been going, and may likely be replaced with something faster in the not so distant future. So I think I can squeeze two or three more good years out of my PCI stuff. So for around a grand, maybe less, I can get a screaming box that will get me through a couple of years when another major overhaul will be required.

But as I said before, I think the PCI mobo supply is dwindling as we speak.

Thomas

PCIe isn't going away any time soon. PCIe has replaced PCI, PCI-X and AGP. The PCIe 3.0 spec was just ratified at the end of the year and will bring even more bandwidth compare to 2.0

PCIe 3.0 will be about 1GB/s per lane, meaning a x16 card slot can do 16GB/s, in theory.

No need to wait for the next big thing, PCIe will be around for plenty of time.

[Tom Roberts]

No need to wait for the next big thing, PCIe will be around for plenty of time.

I still don't see the point in trading in or selling or buying new PCIe to replace perfectly good cards because you need (or want) a good computer.

It's a little more complicated for me since I have an older Mac and need to move to a newer Mac or PC to stay updated with software features no longer supported on the older Mac OS.

Thomas

[Naturally Digital]

I still don't see the point in trading in or selling or buying new PCIe to replace perfectly good cards because you need (or want) a good computer.

It's a little more complicated for me since I have an older Mac and need to move to a newer Mac or PC to stay updated with software features no longer supported on the older Mac OS.Yup, I feel for the Mac people with the newer Macs only supporting PCIe... To me, that's a drag. In PC-land PCI lives on with support from most MB's and full systems. It makes this transition time a little easier to deal with.

Since you're straddling both sides of the fence, you could consider extending the life of your PT system by moving to Windoze for a couple of years. Avid seems intent on supporting both platforms and a guy like you could easily work in either environment. I don't know how the licensing works for 3rd party plugins (and sure, there are some that are Mac only) but it might be worth considering.

[905shmick]

I still don't see the point in trading in or selling or buying new PCIe to replace perfectly good cards because you need (or want) a good computer.

It's a little more complicated for me since I have an older Mac and need to move to a newer Mac or PC to stay updated with software features no longer supported on the older Mac OS.

Thomas

The PCI architecture ran out of bandwidth and wasn't able to meet the demands of the faster peripherals that were being used ie: multi gigabit ethernet and storage controllers.

Sound cards are a minority in the peripheral market and because they don't consume a lot of bandwidth, they're happy chugging along just fine.

Such is life, the PCI train has left and you'll need to save your pennies for something new. Like I said, PCIe will be around for a while, so tuff it out with your existing PCI gear while you can and maybe you can get a deal on some used PCIe gear later on.

[Tom Roberts]

Since you're straddling both sides of the fence, you could consider extending the life of your PT system by moving to Windoze for a couple of years. Avid seems intent on supporting both platforms and a guy like you could easily work in either environment. I don't know how the licensing works for 3rd party plugins (and sure, there are some that are Mac only) but it might be worth considering.

That's exactly what I'm looking at. There are probably a couple of plug-ins that I have that are Mac only, but such is life.

The option of getting an PCI expansion chassis and a new Mac, or using the trade in Avid offers is still a couple few grand more than hot- rodding a PC if I can find enough slots.

Thomas

[Perry]

In the just out Maximum PC review of the new Intel Sandy Bridge CPU they say this:

"In essence, Intel's Sandy Bridge has rendered all previous quad-core and dual-core processors obsolete in both performance and price."

And this: "The top-end Core i7-2600K smashes every other quad-core Intel chip by healthy margins."

So the i7-2600K outruns every quad-core in existence and challenges even the mighty i7-980X six-core CPU that comes in around $1,100, beating it in several benchmarks.

And it's in the low $300 range!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070

And they scale DOWN from there!

And, maybe of significance to SAWStudio users, there's a Sandy Bridge dual core that's crazy cheap! Like AMD pricing cheap! Of course the price has to include a new LGA 1155 mobo.

But if you're wanting to build a new box then from my perspective nothing else will make sense at this point.

Anyway, expect Sandy Bridge and LGA 1155 to dominate... well... pretty much everything going forward. It's like when the Core 2 Conroe's came out.. it was game over for everything else on the market. And I guess Nehalem Core i7 was similar, but for me at least, I've skipped that one now it would seem.

My 'ancient' P5W DH Deluxe dual core 'Conroe' certainly isn't 'dead'... I'm still using it! :) And it's still working great! And the same applies to any rig that anyone is still using.

But... Hey! Blame Intel for once again making pretty much everything out there obsolete in one fell swoop! Yep, the b*stards! :eek: :D

Hey... no question about it for me, I want one!!!!

Now about that PCI Slot problem.... I for one am just going to have to sort that out. No way am I 'backing up' to any of the previous CPU's/mobos. And yes, the PCI chassis thing is an option. In fact I'm already running a 7-slot PCI chassis... but I was hoping to dump that added complication at some pint... errr.. point! :D

And there ARE 1155 boards with 3 PCI slots. I've just got to figure if that's what I *really* want. I want the next rig to last me as long as the last one did... and I want to make careful choices. But... Sandy Bridge and LGA 1155 seems a no-brainer at this point in time.

Cheers!

Perry

[Naturally Digital]

Thanks for that Perry! Very timely for me. :)

BTW: my P5WDH Deluxe/Q6600 machine is also running great. It's the most stable machine I've ever had (and that's with all latest updates, online and often multitasking). Using an RME HDSP9652 and 2 x QuadroNVS290 cards. I sure hope my next machine is this stable.

Thanks for sharing your research.

[Richard Rupert]

Perry,

GREAT to see you back posting (this is the kind of post/attitude I was used to on the forum... perhaps you're aware it's become a bit more "confrontational" around here of late). :mad:

Sorry... I had intended to stay out of that fray, but your post was very refreshing. And I certainly don't mean to suggest that everyone has been pulled into the muck. 'Nuf said on that.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your research. I too am using the same Asus mobo as you, and like yours it's working wonderfully... and with a ProFire Light Bridge to boot! :) I've recorded up to 16 inputs at a time and played back 72 tracks with out hearing a whimper from the machine. (Kind of makes me wonder why I'm even interested in a new one :D)!!! Okay, I'm power hungry. I've said it. :)

[Dave Labrecque]

In the just out Maximum PC review of the new Intel Sandy Bridge CPU they say this:

"In essence, Intel's Sandy Bridge has rendered all previous quad-core and dual-core processors obsolete in both performance and price."

And this: "The top-end Core i7-2600K smashes every other quad-core Intel chip by healthy margins."

So the i7-2600K outruns every quad-core in existence and challenges even the mighty i7-980X six-core CPU that comes in around $1,100, beating it in several benchmarks.

And it's in the low $300 range!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070

And they scale DOWN from there!

And, maybe of significance to SAWStudio users, there's a Sandy Bridge dual core that's crazy cheap! Like AMD pricing cheap! Of course the price has to include a new LGA 1155 mobo.

But if you're wanting to build a new box then from my perspective nothing else will make sense at this point.

Anyway, expect Sandy Bridge and LGA 1155 to dominate... well... pretty much everything going forward. It's like when the Core 2 Conroe's came out.. it was game over for everything else on the market. And I guess Nehalem Core i7 was similar, but for me at least, I've skipped that one now it would seem.

My 'ancient' P5W DH Deluxe dual core 'Conroe' certainly isn't 'dead'... I'm still using it! :) And it's still working great! And the same applies to any rig that anyone is still using.

But... Hey! Blame Intel for once again making pretty much everything out there obsolete in one fell swoop! Yep, the b*stards! :eek: :D

Hey... no question about it for me, I want one!!!!

Now about that PCI Slot problem.... I for one am just going to have to sort that out. No way am I 'backing up' to any of the previous CPU's/mobos. And yes, the PCI chassis thing is an option. In fact I'm already running a 7-slot PCI chassis... but I was hoping to dump that added complication at some pint... errr.. point! :D

And there ARE 1155 boards with 3 PCI slots. I've just got to figure if that's what I *really* want. I want the next rig to last me as long as the last one did... and I want to make careful choices. But... Sandy Bridge and LGA 1155 seems a no-brainer at this point in time.

Cheers!

Perry

Perry -- I'm right there with you (I think). The i7 950 box I just bought from Costco has a bent chassis -- the jacks on the back of the mobo don't line up with the holes in the back of the case! These boxes disappeared from inventory right after I bought this one. Looks like I'm out of luck to replace it.

On the "bright" side, they told me it'd have three PCI slots and it only came with two! So, it looks like I have a chance to try again for three AND get a spiffier processor! :)

The only downside is that to do that I may have to build my own, which was something I was trying to avoid.

Keep us posted on your progress. I am the student, and the teacher has appeared! :D

[Perry]

Here's a little more info on the new Sandy Bridge CPU's and LGA 1155 mobos:

There are two chipsets to be aware of... and though there might be more at some point (or even now) these are the only two I know of: the H67 and the P67.

I haven't researched deeply into all the differences but the key difference seems to be that the H67 offers support for the internal graphics and the P67 allows for overclocking. So if you are looking at 1155 mobos these are things to be aware of.

If you're wondering the differences in the 'unlocked' K series as opposed to the standard CPU's.... here's the deal on that:

Only the K series CPU's are 'unlocked', meaning some of the setting can be changed that will make it possible to overclock them... and from what I've read so far, by a very stable and wide margin. And the price premium for the K CPU's is very small. Only a few dollars more.

Of course if you absolutely don't intend to change the stock settings no reason not to save those few dollars as far as I know.

FWIW, I've been running my Core 2 Duo E8600 3.33 Ghz CPU overclocked at a stable 3.75 GHz for years. But from what I read the Sandy Bridge K's clock up even better. I've already seen the 2600K in systems running at 4.7 GHz! (The Falcon Northwest Mach V with Sandy Bridge 2600K and Asus P8P67 Deluxe) Falcon Northwest is of course a top end 'enthusiast' supplier but I'd think that a slightly more conservative overclock would be very simple.

In any case... Wowie! :eek:

perry

[905shmick]

There are K-series in the i5 and i7 processors right now, but you can easily overclock them, and I am. The new Sandy Bridge processors will have a whole lot more going on per die and they are now basically forcing you to buy a K-series in order to overclock just the processor without throwing everything else out of whack.

[Perry]

Dave,

Sounds like that banged up Costco computer was a blessing in disguise! ;)

If you want someone to build you a new Sandy Bridge/LGA 1155 computer I wouldn't worry too much. Just give it a short while and there will plenty to be had. Expect every computer builder in existence to be all over this! Some already are.

I mentioned Falcon Northwest in my last post; they will gladly build you one right now! (looks like a two week delivery)

I quickly 'built' you a screamer top tier Sandy Bridge from them for apx. $3,000...

That's with the top CPU and from an enthusiast builder and with 8 gigs of Ram... you could easily bring that down I'm sure from a different supplier.

http://build.falcon-nw.com/?s=1

Select the P-67 system and give it a go!

But again, you will be able to find these all over very quickly I'm sure.

And Dave..


.... I am the student, and the teacher has appeared! :D

LOL! :) Trust me on this.. it is I that am the student, in all regards! But, I am most happy to share whatever I learn. :)

Cheers!
perry

[Perry]

There are K-series in the i5 and i7 processors right now, but you can easily overclock them, and I am. The new Sandy Bridge processors will have a whole lot more going on per die and they are now basically forcing you to buy a K-series in order to overclock just the processor without throwing everything else out of whack.

Yep! Indeed they are! :) But the new CPU's are so incredibly cheap for the amount of performance! It almost seems to good to be true... but there it is.

Maybe Intel wants to completely blow AMD right off the map at this point? I hope they don't myself because I would hate for Intel not to have any competition at all.

No matter what though... we just got a late Christmas present with Sandy Bridge/LGA 1155! Screaming, top tier performance for way less money; hard not to like that! :)
perry

[Perry]

Dave Vanderploeg and Richard Rupert,

Yeah, we bought wisely back then didn't we! My P5WDH Deluxe/Q6600 still rocks day in and day out as well! I won't be 'retiring' that machine so much as just bumping it down for other tasks.

And I'm with you in that there's really no real panic or whatever to upgrade.... and shouldn't be for anyone really with a powerful and stable system, whatever it is!

But the Core 2 Duo's (and truthfully most everything else now) are of course fading into memory as we speak... errr... type! :rolleyes:

But it's sure nice to have the luxury of taking our time to sort out the upgrade route. I thought it might never arrive but we 'finally' got to the point were computers truly provide the kind of power we once only dreamed of! For me that happened with the Core 2 Duo generation of CPU's.

In the case of the current 'new' Intel chips there's not even really much more to say... just the details to work out. It's just such a no-brainer, at least unless something pops up to spoil the party that we don't know about yet. But that's not likely I figure.

Sandy Bridge is going to be part of our language for a while I'm pretty sure. Of course.. just like with the Core 2 Duo's.. eventually it too will fade. In the meantime... Whoo Hooo! :D

Cheers!!!
Perry

[Tim Miskimon]

Funny thing is I'm not really lacking any processing power with my current system.
The reason I'm looking to upgrade is for the ability to have more memory & I'm really looking forward to the speed of USB 3.0.
For about 12 years I've been using Data Port hard drive caddies - they've been very dependable - but I love the idea of being able to use USB drives for tracking rather than just for backup storage as I've been doing for several years now.
So as Perry suggest we do have a sort of luxury being able to take our time to investigate the options out there.
I really would like to keep my RME 9652 in service - that thing has been a gem!
Also I do use my UAD 1 card quite often so I really need those PCI slots - I really don't see me buying a Fairchild anytime soon & I can't afford another half dozen 1176s....:D

[Richard Rupert]

<SNIP> - but I love the idea of being able to use USB drives for tracking rather than just for backup storage as I've been doing for several years now.

Tim,

I've been using USB drives for a few years to do just that: I track, overdub and mix to them. I have several clients who bring their drives with them when they start a new project, and I record directly to the drive. And I've had some very high track counts; twice I hit the current SAWStudio Full limit of 72, and the system just keeps plugging along.

I make certain to tell the client to make sure they get a 7200 RPM spindle speed with their drive purchase, and I've had no problems so far...

Since you have drives for backup (and if they're 7200 spindle speed), give it a try.

[Dave Labrecque]

Dave,

Sounds like that banged up Costco computer was a blessing in disguise! ;)

If you want someone to build you a new Sandy Bridge/LGA 1155 computer I wouldn't worry too much. Just give it a short while and there will plenty to be had. Expect every computer builder in existence to be all over this! Some already are.

I mentioned Falcon Northwest in my last post; they will gladly build you one right now! (looks like a two week delivery)

I quickly 'built' you a screamer top tier Sandy Bridge from them for apx. $3,000...

That's with the top CPU and from an enthusiast builder and with 8 gigs of Ram... you could easily bring that down I'm sure from a different supplier.

http://build.falcon-nw.com/?s=1

Select the P-67 system and give it a go!

But again, you will be able to find these all over very quickly I'm sure.

And Dave..



LOL! :) Trust me on this.. it is I that am the student, in all regards! But, I am most happy to share whatever I learn. :)

Cheers!
perry

Perry -- I was thinking that in order to get 3 PCI slots and assure myself a reasonably quiet box, I'd have to build my own. What do you think?

Thank you for sharing your wisdom, mahstah. [reverent bow] ;)

[Perry]

Perry -- I was thinking that in order to get 3 PCI slots and assure myself a reasonably quiet box, I'd have to build my own. What do you think?

Thank you for sharing your wisdom, mahstah. [reverent bow] ;)

Hi Dave! Well... personally I prefer to build my own as far as that goes. Then I know exactly what I'm getting from the get go! Again though, if you want someone to build one for you I'm just saying there will be plenty to be had... no worries there.

The 'mainstream' is going to be Sandy Bridge all the way. There's always the server class and serious workstations needing as many cores as are available (and for someone using apps that actually benefit from more cores, those top tier machines should outperform the Sandy Bridge quad cores in that case). And there's the VERY top tier enthusiast class where guys will want really as many cores as they can get... just because! :rolleyes: And there's the very bottom rung budget stuff. These are all in their own class though, their own world really.

'Here in the Real World' (Alan Jackson wasn't it?) ;) ...it'll be Sandy Bridge all the way over the next while pretty much for sure. And it'll be no problem to get 'vendor-built' Sandy Bridge computers. I haven't checked DAW rig builders but parts are available already and I'm sure it's no problem to get one ordered from an appropriate vendor.

It's maybe a little trouble I guess to roll your own but for sure if you have the experience and ability, then why not do it yourself? :) That's what I'll do for sure. Got a few projects lining up and soon as I have the spare dough I'll probably go for it!

And hey.... I was just compiling a list of P67 chipset boards that have 3 PCI slots, as that's what I'm looking at myself. Anyone could of course look these up but I might as well share.

And for anyone needing only 2 or less PCI slots.. It's wide open in that case! (he he) ;-)

My list so far of P67 'Sandy Bridge' Motherboards with 3 PCI slots:

ASUS P8P67 LGA 1155 Intel P67 $159.99

ASUS P8P67 LE LGA 1155 Intel P67 $139.99

MSI P67S-C43 LGA 1155 Intel P67 $129.99

ASRock P67 PRO3 LGA 1155 Intel P67 $123.99

MSI P67A-C45 LGA 1155 Intel P67 $139.99

All prices as of today's date @ New Egg

Happy Building!
Perry

[Dave Labrecque]

Here's a little more info on the new Sandy Bridge CPU's and LGA 1155 mobos:

There are two chipsets to be aware of... and though there might be more at some point (or even now) these are the only two I know of: the H67 and the P67.

I haven't researched deeply into all the differences but the key difference seems to be that the H67 offers support for the internal graphics and the P67 allows for overclocking. So if you are looking at 1155 mobos these are things to be aware of.

If you're wondering the differences in the 'unlocked' K series as opposed to the standard CPU's.... here's the deal on that:

Only the K series CPU's are 'unlocked', meaning some of the setting can be changed that will make it possible to overclock them... and from what I've read so far, by a very stable and wide margin. And the price premium for the K CPU's is very small. Only a few dollars more.

Of course if you absolutely don't intend to change the stock settings no reason not to save those few dollars as far as I know.

FWIW, I've been running my Core 2 Duo E8600 3.33 Ghz CPU overclocked at a stable 3.75 GHz for years. But from what I read the Sandy Bridge K's clock up even better. I've already seen the 2600K in systems running at 4.7 GHz! (The Falcon Northwest Mach V with Sandy Bridge 2600K and Asus P8P67 Deluxe) Falcon Northwest is of course a top end 'enthusiast' supplier but I'd think that a slightly more conservative overclock would be very simple.

In any case... Wowie! :eek:

perry

Perry -- one thing I'm not clear on. Can you use a 2600K chip with an H67 chipset and get the internal graphics support? Or do you have to go with the locked 2600 for that?

Also -- what does 'internal graphics' mean, here? It's different than a mobo's integrated graphics, right?

[Dave Labrecque]

Hi Dave! Well... personally I prefer to build my own as far as that goes. Then I know exactly what I'm getting from the get go! Again though, if you want someone to build one for you I'm just saying there will be plenty to be had... no worries there.

The 'mainstream' is going to be Sandy Bridge all the way. There's always the server class and serious workstations needing as many cores as are available (and for someone using apps that actually benefit from more cores, those top tier machines should outperform the Sandy Bridge quad cores in that case). And there's the VERY top tier enthusiast class where guys will want really as many cores as they can get... just because! :rolleyes: And there's the very bottom rung budget stuff. These are all in their own class though, their own world really.

'Here in the Real World' (Alan Jackson wasn't it?) ;) ...it'll be Sandy Bridge all the way over the next while pretty much for sure. And it'll be no problem to get 'vendor-built' Sandy Bridge computers. I haven't checked DAW rig builders but parts are available already and I'm sure it's no problem to get one ordered from an appropriate vendor.

It's maybe a little trouble I guess to roll your own but for sure if you have the experience and ability, then why not do it yourself? :) That's what I'll do for sure. Got a few projects lining up and soon as I have the spare dough I'll probably go for it!

And hey.... I was just compiling a list of P67 chipset boards that have 3 PCI slots, as that's what I'm looking at myself. Anyone could of course look these up but I might as well share.

And for anyone needing only 2 or less PCI slots.. It's wide open in that case! (he he) ;-)

My list so far of P67 'Sandy Bridge' Motherboards with 3 PCI slots:

ASUS P8P67 LGA 1155 Intel P67 $159.99

ASUS P8P67 LE LGA 1155 Intel P67 $139.99

MSI P67S-C43 LGA 1155 Intel P67 $129.99

ASRock P67 PRO3 LGA 1155 Intel P67 $123.99

MSI P67A-C45 LGA 1155 Intel P67 $139.99

All prices as of today's date @ New Egg

Happy Building!
Perry

Great info! Thanks, Perry. I may just look at building my own -- although...

I found these guys: http://www.portatech.com (http://www.portatech.com/)

Looks like I can customize a barebones system around a 2600k with the stuff I need (2 HDDs, 3 PCI slots) AND an Antec Sonata (quiet) case for under $1200 shipped. That's right in-line with my budget.

I guess I'll check piecemeal pricing to build it myself and see how it compares. :)

[Carl G.]

AND an Antec Sonata (quiet) case :)
[/FONT]
Dave, I have a super quiet case (insulation, front door, etc)....
But I still find it more noisy than my "Gamer's" where I can now run super large fans at real slow speed (the one on the top of the case is the big key to releasing heat). Just thought I'd share the info.

What would be really cool (but I haven't researched it yet), is a case that has harddrive insulators (live some servers), with inside case acoustic rubber/foam treatment, with a large (140mm) slow speed fan on TOP of the case.... all coupled with an inside fanless design. (for under $120 :) )

[Dave Labrecque]

Dave, I have a super quiet case (insulation, front door, etc)....
But I still find it more noisy than my "Gamer's" where I can now run super large fans at real slow speed (the one on the top of the case is the big key to releasing heat). Just thought I'd share the info.

What would be really cool (but I haven't researched it yet), is a case that has harddrive insulators (live some servers), with inside case acoustic rubber/foam treatment, with a large (140mm) slow speed fan on TOP of the case.... all coupled with an inside fanless design. (for under $120 :) )

Good to know, Carl. The ibuypower.com system I bought through Costco (and that I'm returning) is a gamer case with a huge fan on top and on one side, and four large fans also on the sides. It doesn't seem as quiet as the off-the-shelf Gateway/Costco system that I bought for the home last year. :( I guess you really have to hear them in person to know what's what.

[Perry]

Hi Dave!

What are you doing Dave? (obscure humor.. getting cabin fever here in the very cold South, couldn't help myself!) ;)

Yes, like I was saying.. it won't be a problem to find someone to build you A new Sandy Bridge based computer. In the often sited 'tick tock' regarding Intel's introduction of new advancements, this is most definitely a big 'Tock'! :)

Those get a lot of attention... and quick! Anyway, sure man.. whatever works best for you! And amen to the Antec cases, been using them for years. An added (and needed) plus for me is that some of those allow for full length cards in the bottom slots... something pretty rare in mid-size cases. I need that for my SSL-Soundscape Mixpander card.

Only the top two in the series now I believe support that but that's fine! And also... on the quite thing... yes, big, slow fans pretty much rule. You can buy all sorts of aftermarket stuff for this. Once upon a time I got into that and bought several esoteric 'cool' fans. (that pun intended thank you)

In the end they are all simply fans but there are differences. Up to you to decide how much a few degrees difference in cooling or a few decibels difference in noise mean to you... and the balance and trade offs between the two. As an example... I had reasonably priced, slow fans that when it came down to it were not really much different in practical terms than some of those esoteric fans made in Norway (or was it Sweden?). :)

I also at one point bought a fairly large and heavily built, metal case with ports for big, slow fans on top and bottom... with covers for unused ones....and a nice heavy glass door and removable side panels and a big swing-open metal back door! It had all that and was on large, heavy duty wheels as well.

I loved it! But I unceremoniously simply dumped in for the Nashville move. I might get something similar again at some point but, in the end it's just more 'junk'... you know. :rolleyes: Cool but essentially not really necessary.

Again.. up to you what to do with all this. I'm just saying this from experience... it's easy to get caught up in it all and in the end the worth of it can be questionable. Again, up to you and don't let me spoil your party! :)

And the Antec cases are a good choice!

You asked another question in a separate post Re: Motherboards:

"Perry -- one thing I'm not clear on. Can you use a 2600K chip with an H67 chipset and get the internal graphics support? Or do you have to go with the locked 2600 for that?

Also -- what does 'internal graphics' mean, here? It's different than a mobo's integrated graphics, right?"

Internal graphics here is directly related to the CPU, not the motherboard where some have on-board graphics. The new Intel CPU has what is touted as being ... well, skipping the hype, in reality it's 'good' graphics built right into the CPU. And though it isn't really new, this is supposedly the best so far at this and will likely be used in many consumer level computers. And in some cases it will be more than sufficient... and lower costs I'd think. At the price of the Sandy Bridge CPU's, having graphics power sort of thrown in for free is going to attractive for a lot of folks... the one's buying as well as the one's selling.

Ummm... It could be (possibly I suppose) that the this might actually be sufficient in some cases for a DAW.... but I have my doubts and won't likely be taking that route myself.

Anyway, my understanding Dave is that the H67 chipset is necessary to take advantage of the internal graphics. And as far as I know the 'K' designation only refers to the ability to over-clock settings that are 'unlocked' on the CPU, accessed via motherboards with the P67 chipsets.

This is Intel's concession to the overclocking crowd... and I'm glad they did it! Even a mild overclock should put the top Sand Bridge squarely in the court of the very pricey 6-cores in most regards.... and in reality almost assuredly more powerful for programs that don't take advantage of the extra 2 cores. At stock speeds it's already beating out the high end 6-cores in many important benchmarks.

BUT... if you are interested in the on-board graphics definitely research this further yourself. I'm not looking closely at that since I don't plan to take that route and do plan to get a 'K' CPU regardless.

Hope this helps! :)

Cheers man!

[Carl G.]

Good to know, Carl. The ibuypower.com system I bought through Costco (and that I'm returning) is a gamer case with a huge fan on top and on one side, and four large fans also on the sides. It doesn't seem as quiet as the off-the-shelf Gateway/Costco system that I bought for the home last year. :( I guess you really have to hear them in person to know what's what.

Dave, on mine, I actually turn OFF both front case fans AND the back fan!! I only use the top fan... works great. I also changed my graphics card fan for a huge double sided Zalman heat sink with tubes. (the side fan section I leave without a fan). The whole case actually runs pretty cool (top fan is the key). Oh... the power supply fan (large) is the only other fan ...and it twirls slow too.

[Dave Labrecque]

Thanks for all the info, Perry. Yeah, I was thinking it might be a cost-saver to use the CPU graphics capability and skip a dedicated video card. Maybe not the greatest choice? I have yet to figure out if such a configuration would even allow for two separate monitors. The mobos have all kinds of video out ports (one of each, typically), but I gotta wonder if you can put monitor 1 on DVI and monitor 2 on HDMI, for example. Seems suspect.

What's your thinking on a case? Is quiet important, or do you have a 'machine room' type setup for your computer?

[cgrafx]

Thanks for all the info, Perry. Yeah, I was thinking it might be a cost-saver to use the CPU graphics capability and skip a dedicated video card. Maybe not the greatest choice? I have yet to figure out if such a configuration would even allow for two separate monitors. The mobos have all kinds of video out ports (one of each, typically), but I gotta wonder if you can put monitor 1 on DVI and monitor 2 on HDMI, for example. Seems suspect.

What's your thinking on a case? Is quiet important, or do you have a 'machine room' type setup for your computer?

The built-in intel graphics generally support two of the usual three video connectors. So if there is DVI, HDMI, and VGA, you can connect monitors to two of the three.

Yes, you can run two monitors at a time via DVI and HDMI.

[Dave Labrecque]

The built-in intel graphics generally support two of the usual three video connectors. So if there is DVI, HDMI, and VGA, you can connect monitors to two of the three.

Yes, you can run two monitors at a time via DVI and HDMI.

Thanks for the info Phil.

In the case of the 2nd gen i7's H67 motherboards, where the graphics processing capability of the CPU can be utilized, does anyone know:

1) Is that "in place of" the mobo's integrated graphics, or used "in conjunction with" it?

2) Would one expect that using the CPU's graphics processing capabilities would "drag down" the main processing performance at all, or work completely independent of it?

[Cary B. Cornett]

I keep being told that the real issue with using on-board graphics is the use of shared memory, which means that video operations "steal" a certain number of memory read/write cycles from everything else, which reduces the ability of the system to handle heavy processing loads.

I'm using on-board graphics in my current DAW, but I haven't been running huge live SAC mixes with it, nor have I ever gone much over 50 tracks on a SAW session. I also haven't needed to use the SS video track.

[905shmick]

Thanks for the info Phil.

In the case of the 2nd gen i7's H67 motherboards, where the graphics processing capability of the CPU can be utilized, does anyone know:

1) Is that "in place of" the mobo's integrated graphics, or used "in conjunction with" it?

2) Would one expect that using the CPU's graphics processing capabilities would "drag down" the main processing performance at all, or work completely independent of it?

The onboard video ports are used in conjunction with a processor that has a GPU. So if you plunk in a CPU with no GPU, you won't get any video, though everything in that lineup will have a GPU, so it's not really an issue.

The GPU on the chip is independent of the CPU, so you won't notice a slow down. Prior systems that lacked a GPU would rob the CPU to process video.

[Cary B. Cornett]

The onboard video ports are used in conjunction with a processor that has a GPU. So if you plunk in a CPU with no GPU, you won't get any video, though everything in that lineup will have a GPU, so it's not really an issue.

The GPU on the chip is independent of the CPU, so you won't notice a slow down. Prior systems that lacked a GPU would rob the CPU to process video. Yeah, but does the GPU have its own separate and independent video memory, or does is use the main RAM in the mobo? If it depends on shared ram, it will still take away a certain amount of process capacity by making a certain number of R/W cycles in memory unavailable to the CPU.

[DennisC]

Perry,

Here is an Intel MB 1155 socket and 3 PCI slots:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121480

Although that Gigabyte board looks nice too. I am thinking similar to you.

The new i5 Sandy Bridge 2500K looks like a very nice SAW cpu with quality graphics on the chip.

I am debating the XP versus Windows 7 thing...

XP: Stable, Stable, Stable, but limited RAM and does not support TRIM for solid state drives (without running a utility program).

Windows 7: 64 bit: RAM, RAM, RAM, built in TRIM for SSD, but? is it SAW-friendly, stable?

With built-in graphics and Solid State Drives - Boy you could have a truly silent recording PC and use eSata to back-up to more affordable drives when not recording.
What are your thoughts?

Dennis

[Perry]

Perry,

Here is an Intel MB 1155 socket and 3 PCI slots:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121480

Although that Gigabyte board looks nice too. I am thinking similar to you.

The new i5 Sandy Bridge 2500K looks like a very nice SAW cpu with quality graphics on the chip.

I am debating the XP versus Windows 7 thing...

XP: Stable, Stable, Stable, but limited RAM and does not support TRIM for solid state drives (without running a utility program).

Windows 7: 64 bit: RAM, RAM, RAM, built in TRIM for SSD, but? is it SAW-friendly, stable?

With built-in graphics and Solid State Drives - Boy you could have a truly silent recording PC and use eSata to back-up to more affordable drives when not recording.
What are your thoughts?

Dennis

Hi Dennis,

That's an H67 board.. for me I wish it were a P67 and that's all I've been looking at. Love the price though and would love to get an Intel board but I want the overclocking ability and Intel doesn't support that. And I will definitely use a separate video card anyway.

BUT... otherwise that should be a great choice.

The on-board graphics??? Honestly I don't know. Someone is going to have to try that I guess and let us all know how it works. It 'might' actually be OK... I just haven't investigated into that deep enough to know. And we probably won't really know without a trial run with SAWStudio. Good chance there will be 'some' kind of performance hit... just don't know if it will be significant or even noticed. With enough main system memory like can be used with a Win 64 rig it might not be an issue... but 'might not' is something to keep in mind!

But... if you aren't interested in overclocking (and I know a lot of people aren't) then there's no down side I see to the Intel H67 board. IF the on-board graphics doesn't work out... you can of course still put in a separate video card and that will disable the on-board stuff.

Windows 7? I plan to install that on a new drive without loosing my XP set up.... and then have a go with it! :D The things you noted about Win 7 64... all sound good. Again just going to have to give it all a try. I like the ideas though!

Again I'm in no big rush... taking my time to suss it all out. :) Someone here I'm sure will be able to report here first hand on a new Sandy Bridge rig before I make the move. And that's OK by me! :D

Cheers!