OT: Dakota Drivers

[mr_es335]

Hello,

I recently purcased a Dakota card and have been unsuccessful in locating the correct drivers and/or getting ASIO to work in Windows XP.

All I see is WDM.

Any assistance would be very much appreciated.

[Richard Rupert]

Hello,

I recently purcased a Dakota card and have been unsuccessful in locating the correct drivers and/or getting ASIO to work in Windows XP.

All I see is WDM.

Any assistance would be very much appreciated.
The drivers are available on the Frontier Design website. Here's the link:
http://www.frontierdesign.com/Products/Dakota/Downloads/Prev

[mr_es335]

Hello,

I have downloaded these drivers and the device is not coming up with ASIO but with WDM!

I am not sure what I am doing wrong. All of the drivers that I have located thus far only provide the WDM drivers and not ASIO.

[mr_es335]

Hello,

Does this make any sense?

[905shmick]

The site says:

v3.15 2007-07-18
DakWdm3_15.zip - 583K

Windows 98 SE, Me, 2000, XP and Vista (including multi-CPU support). Includes WDM, ASIO ASIO 2.0, GSIF, and GSIF 2.0 support. See seperate installation instructions in Documentation section below.

Have you opened SAW and setup the device via ASIO yet?

[mr_es335]

Hello,

Yes I have. I also spent over 2 hours with the folks at Frontier (Mike was very, very helpful) trying everything and to no avail. They even downloaded the SS demo and walked me through every known thing possible. He figures it could be a defective card.

If anyone uses this card, I would be more than willing to pay for a call to see what else can be done. I am using a stripped XP/SP2 system with a new ADA8000.

PS: Do both IN's and OUT's need to be connected from the Dakota to the ADA8000? Mike was not sure if they needed to be.

When I start SS, load a wave file into the MT and hit play, I get momentary levels, but then nothing. I get now audio output. Also, when I stop playback, I get a "forcing engine shutdown" message. I have tried various settings but nothing seems to work here.

PS: I am new to the "optical" scene...used Firewire before and never had any problems.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[mr_es335]

Hello,

I will offer my setup:

1. Dakota Optical Out A to ADA8000 optical IN
2. Dakota Optical In A to ADA8000 optical OUT
3. ADA8000 Line Out 1 to left powered monitor
4. ADA8000 Line Out 2 to right powered monitor
5. ADA8000 SYNC set to Master 44.1 (default)
Note: When ADA8000 is powered-up, both Master/Locked lights are lit.
6. SAWStudio set to ASIO 16 bit
7. All Ins/Outs left at default settings
8. Preload buffer at 6, Out buffer at 512 (defaults)
9. Load Soundfile to MT
10. Press play
* I get a momentary level on I-01
* Dakota Control Panel applet shows both Input and Output and no errors.
* I am getting no levels and therefore no output.
11. Stop playback, have to press Spacebar 2x to get playback to stop, then get "Forcing Engine Shutdown..." message.

What am I doing wrong? I hope this helps?

[MikeDee]

Hello,

I will offer my setup:

1. Dakota Optical Out A to ADA8000 optical IN
2. Dakota Optical In A to ADA8000 optical OUT
3. ADA8000 Line Out 1 to left powered monitor
4. ADA8000 Line Out 2 to right powered monitor
5. ADA8000 SYNC set to Master 44.1 (default)
Note: When ADA8000 is powered-up, both Master/Locked lights are lit.
6. SAWStudio set to ASIO 16 bit
7. All Ins/Outs left at default settings
8. Preload buffer at 6, Out buffer at 512 (defaults)
9. Load Soundfile to MT
10. Press play
* I get a momentary level on I-01
* Dakota Control Panel applet shows both Input and Output and no errors.
* I am getting no levels and therefore no output.
11. Stop playback, have to press Spacebar 2x to get playback to stop, then get "Forcing Engine Shutdown..." message.

What am I doing wrong? I hope this helps?Normally the sound card is the master, so be sure to set the Dakota as master and the ADA as slave (ADAT IN [unless you're usinc BNC cable for Word Clock]).

HTH,

[mr_es335]

Hello,

Thank you for getting back to me.

Make I ask where exactly this is done? I just want to be very sure.

Thanks again.

[Wink0r]

On the ADA there is a four position switch next to the BNC connector on the back. Look for a clocking section on the driver UI.

[BrianR]

I don't think I can help you with a fix, but I came across these same symptoms last week. I purchased a Motu 2408 on Ebay and it came with a 424x and also a 424e card. Someone borrowed me a HP desktop to play with SAWlight at home. I previously had it hooked up to a M Audio USB Pre and everything worked fine. The computer had one PCIe slot and I could change settings on the 2408 fine and see it in SAW/SAC. But would not pass any audio in SAC, and SAW would behave exactly like you describe. The 424x card would work fine. I thought I got a bad 424e card so I brought it to someone with a Motu set up and tested it and everything worked in a different computer. I didn't spend any more time trying to figure it out as I had finished acquiring all the parts to build another computer.

[mr_es335]

Hello,

1. ADA8000 set to ADAT IN (Slave)
2. Dakota UI as show below:

[Ian Alexander]

Longshot here. You mentioned a stripped XP setup. Is it possible you stripped out something that ASIO needs?

[mr_es335]

Hello,

No...as my previous ASIO setups have worked just fine.

Anyhow, I use Disk Imaging and I restored a non-stripped version and still the same problems.

I would love to know if I have everything connected correctly.

Last thing I will try is some new opticcal cables - have those coming soon.

Thanks for your helps.

[mr_es335]

Hello,

A question: Does both optical IN and OUT need to be connected?

Thank you!

[Cary B. Cornett]

Hello,

A question: Does both optical IN and OUT need to be connected?

Thank you!
If you want the sound card to be the master (what I always do), then yes. If the ADA8000 is getting its clock from the sound card, you need to run the optical connection from sound card out to ADA in. Of course, if you are not using the ADA inputs at all, maybe you don't need the other optical connection, but I always connect both anyway.

[Richard Rupert]

mr_es335,
I haven't been using my Dakota/Montana setup for recording since I bought the M-Audio LightBridge a few years ago. I do use it with SAC however but will attach screenshots of the settings for SAWStudio. (I do hook up both in and out optical cables and use the converters for syncing).

On the SAW menu bar, choose Options>Audio Driver Model>Asio Protocol. You'll then get a flyout that offers Dakota 16 bit or 24 bit. Choose your poison and match it in the menu item under Multitrack>Resolution.

HTH

[mr_es335]

Hello,

Richard....Thank you, and Thank you! Very much appreciated indeed.

Followed your instructions and still no go.

What is interesting is that:

1. I get no levels on the faders, and
2. I get the "Force Engine Shutdown..." message.

Thanks again...very much appreciated indeed.

[BrianR]

Have you tried switching PCI slots ?

[Carl G.]

Hello,

I will offer my setup:

What am I doing wrong? I hope this helps?

Silly question... but you don't have 2 instances of SAWstudio open, do you?

[mr_es335]

Hello,

Brian, yes, switched slots. I have also installed the card on 3 systems and the exact same problems.

Carl, there were times I did (getting old and tired), but that was not it either. I do appreciate your thoroughness though.

As I just mentioned, I have installed the card on 3 systems, one with a new install of XP/SP2, and no joy!

It is either a timing issue or the cards are bad.

[mr_es335]

Hello,

Here is the Clock/Device Status Screen.

I have MiniHost loaded with a VST...everything here looks OK..but no audio?!

[Richard Rupert]

Would Frontier Design be willing to check it out/fix it if in fact it's faulty? At this point it seems likely the card is bad...

[mr_es335]

Hello,

I just tried calling them this morning and have just sent them an email.

When I received the cards, I was charged $30.00 in brokerage fees. I have a feeeling that unless they repair the cards for free (not expected) or very cheap, it just may not be worth having them repaired.

Looking at the data of manufacture, it does go back to 1993.

Would anyone be willing to map out a procedure for setting up this card with an ADA8000 (just to very make sure I have not missed anything).

In the interim, I will do one for myself and list it here.

Than you to all who have offered assistance thus far.

[MikeDee]

1993, eh? Hmmm...wonder if a Firmware upgrade is needed....

Either way...Firmware upgrade or defect...it appears that the card will need to go back to Frontier.

[mr_es335]

Hello,

No firmware updates that I know of and they were not mentioned to me during my last conversation with them.

I have created an install procedure and it can be downloaded here (too big to upload):

Install Procedure (http://www.sentinelmusicstudios.com/ftp/Install_Procedure.PDF)

If someone could please have a look at this procedure as see if I am missing anything, it would be appreicated.

Q: Are there any particular settings on the ADA8000 that I need to be aware of (other that ones listed in the attached procedure)?

Thank you all again!

[RBIngraham]

Hello,

1. ADA8000 set to ADAT IN (Slave)
2. Dakota UI as show below:

That is the way you want it to be set up.

[RBIngraham]

Hello,

No firmware updates that I know of and they were not mentioned to me during my last conversation with them.

I have created an install procedure and it can be downloaded here (too big to upload):

Install Procedure (http://www.sentinelmusicstudios.com/ftp/Install_Procedure.PDF)

If someone could please have a look at this procedure as see if I am missing anything, it would be appreciated.

Q: Are there any particular settings on the ADA8000 that I need to be aware of (other that ones listed in the attached procedure)?

Thank you all again!

This all looks correct to me. However I would just try using the drivers in the 24 bit mode and see what happens as well. If you have not already done so. I never run any of my interfaces at 16 bits any more. I seem to remember something in the back of my head about those maybe not working, but I don't remember if that was with these frontier cards or with Echo hardware. Sorry it's all a bit fuzzy since I don't use these cards any longer for my SAC system or with SAW at home.

All my Dakota hardware is out running shows right now so I can not test anything for you. Next time I'm at the theatres where this hardware is at, and it's between shows I will double check to see how I made it work. Right now I mostly use them for audio playback in another application that then gets sent to SAC for mixing with live audio, or right to amps for shows that don't have a mixer. (i.e. small theatre) This software also uses ASIO for it's connection to the sound card, so I know the ASIO drivers work for me.

I do have one of my Dakota cards that has a finicky set of MIDI ports (the multi-pin port on the card itself), so I would not completely rule out a faulty card.

Have you tried something as simple as using the Optical In/Out B rather than A? Maybe one of those ports is broken? That happened on one of my 2408 units from MOTU. One of them has a bad Optical In C port.

I don't have any other concrete ideas really. I don't remember having any real troubles in making all the cards work.

[Richard Rupert]

Have you tried using this driver version?:

Drivers

Previous Dakota Windows Driver http://www.frontierdesign.com/ui/img/win.jpg

v2.08 2000-08-04
dak2_08.zip (http://www.frontierdesign.com/download/driver/Dakota/dak2_08.zip) - 324KB
Includes ASIO 2.0 driver for use with Cubase VST, and GigaSampler Interface (GSIF) support.
It looks to me like you might be using Vista drivers...

EDIT: Also, I've never had any issues running at 16 bit...

[mr_es335]

Hello,

First off, thank you very much RBIngram...you are a busy man and I am very glad to hear it!

Second, Richard Rupert, I did try the file listed but it is incomplete. It is missing the Dakota.sys for that installer routine. I tried copying one from another installer, but that did not work either.

Finally, the DakWdm3_02.zip is damaged but I did manage to find a working one (from a Japanese site). Still no joy.

PS: The most current drivers for XP is the DakWdm3_15.zip (http://www.frontierdesign.com/download/driver/Dakota/DakWdm3_15.zip) file (which does say Vista support). But that is the one for XP as well.

"Windows 98 SE, Me, 2000, XP and Vista (including multi-CPU support). Includes WDM, ASIO ASIO 2.0, GSIF, and GSIF 2.0 support. See seperate installation instructions in Documentation section below."

Thanks again!

[RBIngraham]

They have old drivers here:

http://www.frontierdesign.com/Products/Dakota/Downloads/Prev

I just downloaded 3.02 and it unzipped fine for me.

[mr_es335]

Hello,

I have tried it on 2 systems with 2 different unzippers, and I get error messages...

Can you do a "big" favour? Can you rezip those files and send it to me?

mr_es335@hotmail.com

Thanks in advance!

[RBIngraham]

sent them in private email, just unzipped. Let me know if your email software doesn't let you unattach them in that way. Some won't, like Outlook.

[mr_es335]

Hello,

Nope...did not get .exe's! You will need to zip it I am afraid.

Also, are these the 2.08 drivers? This was the only version to contain the DakAsio.dll file. This zip is the one that is missing the dakota.sys file which is needed to compelte the install.

dak2_08.zip (http://www.frontierdesign.com/download/driver/Dakota/dak2_08.zip)

DakWdm3_02.zip (http://www.frontierdesign.com/download/driver/Dakota/DakWdm3_02.zip)

[Richard Rupert]

sent them in private email, just unzipped. Let me know if your email software doesn't let you unattach them in that way. Some won't, like Outlook.
If it fails, you could change the file name by dropping the last letter off the extension and then send it.
mr_es335 will need to add the letter back on to get it to function...

[RBIngraham]

I just rezipped them and emailed them again.

[mr_es335]

Hello,

Thank you for the drivers...but still no go.

The dk2_08 drivers are incomplete. The DakWdm3_02_rezip do the same at the 3_15 drivers.

Any idea why I get no levels on the faders using the Dakota?

When I switch to the on-board audio, I get levels and all works great!

[RBIngraham]

Hello,

Thank you for the drivers...but still no go.

The dk2_08 drivers are incomplete. The DakWdm3_02_rezip do the same at the 3_15 drivers.

Any idea why I get no levels on the faders using the Dakota?

When I switch to the on-board audio, I get levels and all works great!


The drivers don't work, or the zip files don't unzip?

I have no ideas, sorry. Did you try using them in 24 bit mode?

[mr_es335]

Hello,

The files unzipped just fine!

However, I am still getting errors. Bill said that he tried the card before shipping it to me using the ADAT connection going to a Mytek 8x96, set to slave to incoming clock. I am using the ADA8000.

So, the drivers still do not work.

I will call Frontier on Monday to see what they have to say.

Thank you to all who have offered thier assistance. It is very, very much appreicated!

[Ian Alexander]

Here's an idea. Do you trust the ADA8000? Have you used the ADA8000 with anything else recently? Did that connection use the ADAT in and out? Do you see the sync lock light on the ADA8000?

[mr_es335]

Hello,

The ADA8000 checked out at the place I bought it. Though I like Behringer products, I do not necessarily trust them all the time.

Yes, I see the sync lock light on the ADA8000?

[mr_es335]

Hello,

I have not heard back from Frontier yet but I swapped out the ADAK for another unit and the same problems?

I will give it one more day and then I will have to consider other alternatives.

I do not do this full-time, so RME's are a bit pricey. Are there other PCI-based card alternatives with ADAT? The E-MU 1212M is priced right but has problems with SAW (as I see from the forums).

I am not sure I will go used any longer, so new is literally "in the cards".

[Bob L]

Consider all the time you have spent attempting to get this working and then consider that the RME cards are not expensive at all... the drivers just work well usually right off the bat.

Bob L

[905shmick]

I've purchased 4 used RME HDSP 9652 cards + 2 RME HDSP PCI cards + Digiface units and have not had a single problem with any of them.

[RBIngraham]

Hello,

I have not heard back from Frontier yet but I swapped out the ADAK for another unit and the same problems?

I will give it one more day and then I will have to consider other alternatives.

I do not do this full-time, so RME's are a bit pricey. Are there other PCI-based card alternatives with ADAT? The E-MU 1212M is priced right but has problems with SAW (as I see from the forums).

I am not sure I will go used any longer, so new is literally "in the cards".

I have used a lot of the Echo products. There is the Layla 24/96 cards. They are PCI and fairly inexpensive these days. In fact if you are really interested, I could be persuaded to let one of mine go since I am not using them as much as I once was. They are 8x8 analog with 1 8x8 ADAT optical port for a total of 16 channels per PCI card and you can use 2 of them in a single computer.

Having said that, I wonder if this isn't a dead card, or if there is just some incompatibility with your particular computer? Don't know. All I can tell you is that my Frontier cards just installed and they worked, just like most people's experience with RME. Yes, the RME have a great reputation, but frankly they are also not 100%. Nothing is. I know plenty of folks that have had RME issues over the years as well. Not nearly as many as oh.. say MOTU or M-Audio but still it happens. :)

Sorry I just use the crap shoot mentality when it comes to sound cards. Even if you buy the best, it's still a crap shoot and you may end up with some combo that just won't play nice together.

The only reason I bring all this up is because I would hate to see you buy something else and run into the same issues and waste even more time.

[905shmick]

Sorry I just use the crap shoot mentality when it comes to sound cards. Even if you buy the best, it's still a crap shoot and you may end up with some combo that just won't play nice together.

The only reason I bring all this up is because I would hate to see you buy something else and run into the same issues and waste even more time.

This is a good point. Trying the card in a different computer would also be a good test as there might be something up with the PC.

[Naturally Digital]

What is interesting is that:

1. I get no levels on the faders, and
2. I get the "Force Engine Shutdown..." message.Make sure the card isn't somehow being locked down by windows sounds. Go to Control Panel > Sounds and Audio Devices > Sounds > Sound Scheme and make sure you're set to "No Sounds". On the Audio tab, choose your internal device instead of the Dakota or else set it to an unused pair of inputs/outputs.

Long shot, but that's all we've got at this point.

[Naturally Digital]

This is a good point. Trying the card in a different computer would also be a good test as there might be something up with the PC.He's done that, and also says he's tried it in a different pci slot.

[Richard Rupert]

<snip>
Having said that, I wonder if this isn't a dead card,<snip> Don't know. All I can tell you is that my Frontier cards just installed and they worked, just like most people's experience with RME.

Same experience here. My Dakota was in three different machines over the years and worked flawlessly (and still does... in fact running at lower load with the same buffer size than my RME HDSP9652).

That's why I say again: I have a strong suspicion that your card is damaged. Can you return it? Was there any warranty from the seller that came with it?

[mr_es335]

Hello,

905shmick: This is a good point. Trying the card in a different computer would also be a good test as there might be something up with the PC.
mr_es335: Done that 3x - same issues.

Naturally Digital: Make sure the card isn't somehow being locked down by windows sounds. Go to Control Panel > Sounds and Audio Devices > Sounds > Sound Scheme and make sure you're set to "No Sounds". On the Audio tab, choose your internal device instead of the Dakota or else set it to an unused pair of inputs/outputs. Long shot, but that's all we've got at this point.
mr_es335: Great Points!!! Tried it - still the same!
PS: I have disabled my internal audio device.

Richard Rupert: That's why I say again: I have a strong suspicion that your card is damaged. Can you return it? Was there any warranty from the seller that came with it?
mr_es335: Returning it - not sure, I am waiting to hear what Frontier has to say. Warranties - as far as I know, there is no warranty from the seller.

All in all, I have spent a fair bit of time on this, plus with shipping and brokerage about $350.00 on the card. As I said, I will give it one more day.

I am looking at either the 9632 ($540CDN) or the 9652 ($790CDN) card.

Thank you so very, very much to all of you. All that I can say is RML products are simply the best and so are you guys! Thank you again for all of your help!

[905shmick]

If you purchased the card with paypal, you can claim the unit was DOA and try and get your money back. I've had mixed results with the paypal process, but it's worth a try.

[Dave Labrecque]

If you purchased the card with paypal, you can claim the unit was DOA and try and get your money back. I've had mixed results with the paypal process, but it's worth a try.

So long as you made the purchase on a credit card, you shouldn't have to mess with PayPal. Call your credit card company if you need satisfaction. This has worked for me, even on PayPal transactions.

[Tom Roberts]

So long as you made the purchase on a credit card, you shouldn't have to mess with PayPal. Call your credit card company if you need satisfaction. This has worked for me, even on PayPal transactions.


Ditto. Pay Pal is ass. Your credit card company rules.

Thomas

[Bill Park]

PayPal doesn't really help at all. It is best to know and trust your vendor.

[mr_es335]

Hello,

I just received a call from Frontier this morning, and they feel that it would not be advantageous for me to have this device repaired as they would be unable to provide any warranties regarding the repair. They are also concerned about any "other" problems that might occur with the device "down the road". I believe that this was a very reasonable assessment on their part.

PS: What great service, it is too bad they do not make cards any longer.

So, with this in mind, I have just 2 more questions:

1. Why the "Force Engine Shutdown..." message?
2. The internal signal routing of this device?

I always expect that I am missing something? Just do not know what?

PS: Frontier was going to charge me $50.00(US) for the repair. I would be willing to pay someone who has experience with the Dakota card (I have the Montana add-on as well) to walk me through an install and setup process. I have a 2nd system with a clean install of XP/SP2, just with the necessary drivers (no audio or LAN on this one, so just the video, etc). There is only the install of the above drivers. The hardware specs are: Intel D865PERL, 3.02GHz, 4GB DDR2RAM, nVidia FX5200 video.

I would like to install the latest Dakota drivers (DakWdm3_15) and a demo of SAWStudio (4.9a) and then to configure it.

PS: I asked Mike at Frontier when we last spoke what his "gut" feeling was and he was sure that it was a possible clock chip on the card itself that was malfunctioning. This may mean that there really is nothing more to do though.

[Tom Roberts]

If you are asking for advice, my advice would be to return the Dakota card and get a refund. If the seller refuses or gives you a hassle, then instruct your credit card company to refuse payment and refund your account. They will send you some forms to fill out, but you will most likely succeed, and include the "brokerage fees". It has ALWAYS worked for me when I've been ripped off, even with Pay Pal transactions.

You've already spent too much money (and time) and there is no point in throwing good money after bad to repair a discontinued product.

Take your refund and put it towards an RME product that seems to be the most likely to succeed around here, with plenty of support from RME, Bob L., and the rest of the SAW/SAC user base.

My 2 cents.

Thomas

[MikeDee]

Don't lose too much time...you have a maximum of 60 days to file your claim/dispute with the credit card company. (Nope, phone conversations don't count.)

UIAM, this is SOP.

[mr_es335]

Hello,

Thank you, Thomas...and I most heartily agree...(it is RME for me!)

[mr_es335]

Hello,

I though an update was in order.

I have just ordered an RME9652 card from a vendor here in Canada (Long-McQuade) for $480.00. Though it is "used", it is in mint condition and comes with a full warranty.

I am looking forward to getting this card and getting my studio back up and running. I will update you when I get it installed and running.

Thank you to all who have partaken in helping me troubleshoot the Dakota problems.

PS: I have a couple of Frontier items listed on ebay which I will list in SAWBay classifieds.

[mr_es335]

Hello,

I have the following two items listed on ebay:

Frontier Designs Sierra (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220730616601&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:CA:1123)

Frontier Design Montana (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220730616852&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:CA:1123)

Note: This is the last day...so why not have a look.

[mr_es335]

Hello,

I just picked up an RME 9652 from a local store here (in new condition with full warranty) for $399.00! This is even better deal than I thought.

However, aside from all of this, and most importantly, I have just installed the card in my system and within less than a minute - it is all up and working within SAWStudio. I cannot believe what is coming out of this system. I have to reduce the levels considerably to save both my ears and my speakers! Very nice indeed!

Note: I have sent the Dakota card to Mike at Frontier Design to see what he comes up with. I will keep you updated.

[905shmick]

Hello,

I just picked up an RME 9652 from a local store here (in new condition with full warranty) for $399.00! This is even better deal than I thought.

However, aside from all of this, and most importantly, I have just installed the card in my system and within less than a minute - it is all up and working within SAWStudio. I cannot believe what is coming out of this system. I have to reduce the levels considerably to save both my ears and my speakers! Very nice indeed!

Note: I have sent the Dakota card to Mike at Frontier Design to see what he comes up with. I will keep you updated.

Nice. Sure hopes its the HDSP 9652 and not the DIGI 9652 for that price.

[Tom Roberts]

Yes, make sure it is the HDSP version. You'll want Total Mix with SAWStudio.

Thomas

[mr_es335]

Hello,

Yes, it is the HDSP Vesion.

I imagine that the image below is the Total Mix?

[Craig Allen]

That's it, but you don't have to have Total Mix with SAW as it will do monitoring. But having it is nice.

[Tom Roberts]

That's it, but you don't have to have Total Mix with SAW as it will do monitoring. But having it is nice.

It's my understanding you can get lower input monitoring latency with Total Mix, although some folks seem satisfied with the existing latency.

Thomas

[Craig Allen]

Most do ok, but some singers want less. Like I said, it's a nice tool to have.