the rotten apple Big new studio

[paul kostabi]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/arts/music/26studio.html?_r=1&

an interesting article

[Carey Langille]

HOLY CRAP. Thats a LOT OF MONEY.....

[TotalSonic]

I have a distinct feeling it will end up the same way that Allaire Studios did. Beginning: Mix Magazine profiles. Middle: a few high profile clients. End: after a few years - closed.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Naturally Digital]

I have a distinct feeling it will end up the same way that Allaire Studios did. Beginning: Mix Magazine profiles. Middle: a few high profile clients. End: after a few years - closed. With a healthy profit made on the real estate flip perhaps.

Who knows Steve. It'll be interesting to see what happens. At least they're giving it a shot.

[Ian Alexander]

At least the journalism is right on top of things:

"...the fact that a good deal of the recording could be done with nothing but a laptop."

No mics, no room, no experience necessary. Just what people need to know.:o

[Cary B. Cornett]

It would be nice of the source article for the discussion was freely available, no "sign-in". Is there another, ah, open source??

[Microstudio]

MicroStudio did not cost that much...:eek:

[Ian Alexander]

It would be nice of the source article for the discussion was freely available, no "sign-in". Is there another, ah, open source??
The article opens right up here, Cary, with no sign-in. It does require a sign-in to send an email or comment, I think. Perhaps it's a cookie issue?

[Tom Roberts]

Opens fine here as well.

Thomas

[Arco]

"rotten" ?

Whether it's bluster or not, I'm happy to hear of studios doing well..haven't heard that in a while.

[Tom Roberts]

"rotten" ?


In the article, someone referred to New York as the "rotten apple".

Thomas

[MikeDee]

I guess we'll now have to update the ol' Q&A....

Q: How do you make a million dollars in the recording studio biz?

A: Start with 8.7 mil! :eek:

Géèz, dat'z a lot o' SAWStudios & SACs!! :D

[Cary B. Cornett]

The article opens right up here, Cary, with no sign-in. It does require a sign-in to send an email or comment, I think. Perhaps it's a cookie issue? I played with permissions. Still no go. I have had this exact experience every time someone cites a NY Times article and posts a link, to the extent that I have come to really resent the feeling of being "excluded". Just one more reason not to like NYT.

[905shmick]

I played with permissions. Still no go. I have had this exact experience every time someone cites a NY Times article and posts a link, to the extent that I have come to really resent the feeling of being "excluded". Just one more reason not to like NYT.

I saved it as a PDF for you.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/833508/Jungle***37;20City%20Studios.pdf

[Carey Langille]

These guys must be living in another world.... Have they not seen whats up in the business.. over 8 million to start a studio..... Thats Financal Responsability at its best..!!!! Maybe Howard Trump is the backer and needed another writeoff this year!! Of course it could be a NEW Nigerian Scam .. :):)

[Cary B. Cornett]

I saved it as a PDF for you.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/833508/Jungle%20City%20Studios.pdf Thanks! The article was a good read, and made an interesting case for the continuation of "top line" studios. I expect at least a few such operations to be able to continue in New York, LA, and Nashville. I would expect it to be much harder to pull off in most other cities. Detroit, for example, would not support such a place.

I came into recording when the commercial studio business was already well in decline. 24-track studio rates in the Detroit area peaked at around $130/hr some years before I got started. My boss at United Sound, Mike Iacopelli, blamed one individual for effectively cutting studio rates in half. Eric Morgeson acquired a used MCI board and machine from The Record Plant, and installed them in the converted 2-car garage behind his house, charging $65/hr for 24 track recording time.

Some time later a successful R&B producer tried to set up a million-dollar room based around a large SSL E series console. He told me at that time that similar rooms in New York were easily getting over $300/hr, and he had great difficulty getting bookings for half that amount. Eventually that place went under.

However, what I have seen is that it is not so much the top-line places that are getting killed, but the guys in the middle. If you can't offer top gear, top personnel, and a luxurious environment, major clients won't be interested. Most budgets at lower levels are being spent mostly on equipment, and the smarter "newbies" with any kind of budget might actually hire a professional engineer.

I think that, except for the very top end of the market, the business model is more "engineer with gear" than "studio facility".... and why not? These days we can carry our gear to whatever cool-sounding space that we, or our clients, can get the use of.

[paul kostabi]

in the article it refers to "...and the latest digital gear"

[Tom Roberts]

]However, what I have seen is that it is not so much the top-line places that are getting killed, but the guys in the middle. If you can't offer top gear, top personnel, and a luxurious environment, major clients won't be interested. That seems to be the story of the US economy in general. The middle class is eliminated leaving the working poor and the wealthy.



I think that, except for the very top end of the market, the business model is more "engineer with gear" than "studio facility".... and why not?Yeah, there will be some of that, but more like "musicians with gear" for pop music. Not experienced engineers, but they have figured out how to record something and keep it "out of the red". And the samples and loops sound great without any processing.

Thomas

[Cary B. Cornett]

Yeah, there will be some of that, but more like "musicians with gear" for pop music. Not experienced engineers, but they have figured out how to record something and keep it "out of the red". I was speaking about the market for recording done by professionals. IOW, if someone is going to have a professional recording done (not do it themselves), they are more likely to hire an "engineer with equipment" than they are to book a brick-and-mortar studio.

I was told about 25 years ago that the biggest cost for a professional studio was the real estate, and that was before the cost of decent recording gear really dropped. Consider that the mortgage or lease costs for the building never stop. Utilities are being used in the building whether or not sessions are booked. Even if you own the building and it is paid for, the property taxes keep ticking, not to mention occasional maintenance costs.

The easy portability of our recording equipment makes it possible to set up a session anywhere that is out of the weather and provides power. If you feel really adventurous, you can bring your own power. Thus the "roving engineer" can offer quality recording services for much less than someone who has to pay the overhead for a building, and still make a decent profit.

The hard part, of course, is becoming the "famous engineer" that everyone wants to hire. :rolleyes:

[905shmick]

I like the approach that Dave Grohl took with the latest FF album.

http://www.nme.com/nme-video/video/757688254001

[Tom Roberts]

I was speaking about the market for recording done by professionals. IOW, if someone is going to have a professional recording done (not do it themselves), they are more likely to hire an "engineer with equipment" than they are to book a brick-and-mortar studio.


What I"m saying is that market barely exists. If an artist is not recording in a brick and mortar studio, he's just working at home on his own gear.

In the early days of the home recording explosion I had plenty of work setting up studios and helping musicians working at home.

Now not so much. Any muso can go down to GC and buy a recording rig to work at his own pace. And they do.

Thomas

[Tim Miskimon]

Any muso can go down to GC and buy a recording rig to work at his own pace. And they do.

Thomas

Exactly right - and that explains all the sh*ty sounding recordings popping up on You Tube, My Space & CDBaby these days.
Nothing beats working with a pro.
That said with a lot of the music out there these days it wouldn't make a difference anyway.
Personally I rather not work with crappy musicians - so I'm happy they do it themselves.

[studio-c]

Some fun stuff in Dave Grohl's video. "We press play on the 24 track and press record on the half inch, and the mix goes through this board, and we're on the faders, and it's like a performance trying to get the faders right..." "And to combine takes we cut the tape with an actual RAZOR BLADE!" I guess his experience is more with ProTools? Anyway, fun.

Also, they had two Studer 24 tracks and a $100,000 API board (like the one down the hall from me). There was lots of sound treatment on the walls upstairs. So basically his idea of slumming was using a live room (the garage) to track drums and guitar. We should all have such homespun setups. :)

Scott

[Dave Labrecque]

Some fun stuff in Dave Grohl's video. "We press play on the 24 track and press record on the half inch, and the mix goes through this board, and we're on the faders, and it's like a performance trying to get the faders right..." "And to combine takes we cut the tape with an actual RAZOR BLADE!" I guess his experience is more with ProTools? Anyway, fun.

Also, they had two Studer 24 tracks and a $100,000 API board (like the one down the hall from me). There was lots of sound treatment on the walls upstairs. So basically his idea of slumming was using a live room (the garage) to track drums and guitar. We should all have such homespun setups. :)

Scott

I wonder if my carport's acoustics would be similar. Maybe not. :o

[Ian Alexander]

I wonder if my carport's acoustics would be similar. Maybe not. :o
Fewer reflections, but perhaps more external ambience?

[bcorkery]

Yeah, but Dave's sound is so Hot and ... Dry. :D
Eh, maybe not lately.

[Dave Labrecque]

Fewer reflections, but perhaps more external ambience?

"Hold the take! Plane... Hold the take! Car... Hold the take! Cat fight." :p

[Dave Labrecque]

Yeah, but Dave's sound is so Hot and ... Dry. :D
Eh, maybe not lately.

Are you referring to the Winter season... or the current economic... climate. :p

[bcorkery]

Are you referring to the Winter season... or the current economic... climate. :p<rim shot!> Yeah, it could work for either, huh?

[TotalSonic]

Nice video of Jungle City Studio's with interview of Ann Mincieli here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzEShNl-jtM

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Microstudio]

Cool video but I think they also need to show the rest of the place.

It's kinda of sad that the best I think I will be able to afford is EZMix as my mastering engineer......

[MikeDee]

Wonder what they were recording at the time...some hot levels there...didja see those meters red-lining, slamming against the walls? :eek:

Yea, I'm sure it was analog...we could do that all day back then. :D

[studio-c]

I'm constantly amazed to see the kids down the hall pushing levels to the rails in Protools. Like, you don't need to use ALL the bits :) It's not like you're gonna get less hiss or something. I see overs all over the place. End of rant :D

[Cary B. Cornett]

I'm constantly amazed to see the kids down the hall pushing levels to the rails in Protools. Like, you don't need to use ALL the bits :) It's not like you're gonna get less hiss or something. I see overs all over the place. End of rant :D
That's just one more example of what happens when people start "engineering" without learning anything about the underlying theory that governs the tools they use. :rolleyes: It's sad, really.

[TotalSonic]

Wonder what they were recording at the time...some hot levels there...didja see those meters red-lining, slamming against the walls? :eek:

Yea, I'm sure it was analog...we could do that all day back then. :D

Seems to me that they weren't recording anything - only checking the room calibration. In this case the meters were showing playback levels - not per track recording ones. If folks want to see some red lights lighting up all you have to do is come on over here while I'm working on an album where the client has requested "louder."

Anyway - I heartily agree that if you are recording or mixing at 24bit you can give quite a bit of headroom for the peak levels and completely avoid clipping any gain stage for optimal results. Sadly these basics are indeed all too often not understood.

Best regards,
Steve Berson