pio mode problem-help!

[Perry]

Just built a new computer. Master drive is IBM deskstar. Having problem with other drives refusing to go into ultra DMA except Western Digital Drives. THe WD drives boot up as UDMA no problem. Maxtor drives booting as PIOrefusing to go into DMA. Running out of ideas, any suggestions? Anyone had this problem?

With the Western Digital as audio drive performance is outstanding. Everything works great. Test edls loaded to the max, no loading, no problem, everything fantastic. Just having a problem with the Maxtor drive booting in PIO. I have several client drives that are Maxtor from old computer. Anyone know how to force this into UDMA?

Thanks in advance

[Bob L]

Perry,

Are these older Maxtor drives capable of UDMA modes... how old are they?

Bob L

[Perry]

Perry,

Are these older Maxtor drives capable of UDMA modes... how old are they?

Bob L

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, they are capable of UDMA. These are various ages, some a year or so old but some nearly new.. a few months old. One of them is the newest Maxtor "DiamondMax Plus 9" drive that was bought relatively recently.

It's very strange. I know that the drives have worked previously in a different computer as UDMA. It's just in this new computer that I'm having this problem.

The thing is... they should work. They work fine in DMA in their older PIII. FWIW, I've had some problems myself with some of the Maxtor drives on my own system... Brand new ones. They seem to be a little finicky about this.

With Western Digital drives (the "JB" 8 meg cache models) everything is totally fine. In fact the system is an absolute screamer!

Also, the Plextor CDR comes up as UDMA with no problem. I don't get it... makes not much sense to me. I'm going to copy the entire "C" drive install to another Maxtor drive that I have (using Dirve Image) and run that as the OS drive and see if that makes a difference or not. Maybe the other Maxtor's will be "happy" then. :)

thanks,

Perry

[Pedro Itriago]

Perry, when I opened my new asus p4p800 it had 2 ide cables & I didn't pay much attention to them. I used one to connect my new HD & the dvd burner with one cable on ide channel 1, the system didn't recognize the HD but did recognize the dvd so I went to take 'em out. Once I did that, I noticed that the ide cable said "CD-ROM", while the one I wasn't using had a tab that said "HD".


Once I connected the HD with the HD cable on channel 1 and the dvd with the cable tagged cd-rom on ide channel 2. everything worked perfectly.

Try checking this out.

[canipus]

Perry,

It sounds like you're using the Maxtor drive and a CD/DVD unit on the same IDE channel?
You can't do this and get high level UDMA/PIO performance on the drive because the controller chipset will set itself up to the lowest common denominator which in this case is the slow CD/DVD unit. Get the Maxtor drive that's giving you a problem onto its own IDE channel or at least into a Master/Slave relationship on an IDE channel with a similarly rated drive.

Canipus

[Perry]

Perry, when I opened my new asus p4p800 it had 2 ide cables & I didn't pay much attention to them. I used one to connect my new HD & the dvd burner with one cable on ide channel 1, the system didn't recognize the HD but did recognize the dvd so I went to take 'em out. Once I did that, I noticed that the ide cable said "CD-ROM", while the one I wasn't using had a tab that said "HD".


Once I connected the HD with the HD cable on channel 1 and the dvd with the cable tagged cd-rom on ide channel 2. everything worked perfectly.

Try checking this out.

Thanks for the tip Pedro :) Ummm, I've tried a couple of different cables already and I'm reasonably sure the cables I'm trying are fine. I believe what you're describing is the difference between "standard" EIDE cables and ATA 100/133 cables. The CD-Rom drives don't have to have the newer (slightly more expensive) cables so often these aren't supplied.

Also, the Western Digital HDs that I have work fine on these same cables, but the Maxtor's don't. Still, I'll double check this and maybe even try a new IDE cable that I just bought... just to be sure. :)

Thanks again Pedro,

Perry

[matt]

Hey Perry,

Make sure you specify slave or master and not cable select on the Maxtor. Some HD's are sensitive to the order of interfacing.

[Perry]

Hey Perry,

Make sure you specify slave or master and not cable select on the Maxtor. Some HD's are sensitive to the order of interfacing.


Thanks Matt :) I've tried that too! I took a break and am just about to go back at this and see what I can come up with.

All the best,

perry

[Alex_G]

Perry,

I had a similar problem with one video editing computer running Win XP, system disc was recognized as UDMA at boot, Windows recognized as PIO4.

I did change the disc from channel 1 to channel 2 and that corrected the error, DVD and storage HD was connected to channel one.
I think it was some kind of error in the registry. I didn't have time to find out.

Hope it help

Alex

[Bob L]

Perry,

Perhaps those Maxtor drives are not giving the plug and play data back to Windows that it is looking for...

I had this problem on my laptop when I switched to newer 5400 rpm drives a few years back... they would not be detected by the bios and or plug and play of my Windows install as UDMA drives.

I actually had to go into the bios and take them off auto and designate the UDMA settings... then all was fine.

Bob L

[Perry]

Perry,

I had a similar problem with one video editing computer running Win XP, system disc was recognized as UDMA at boot, Windows recognized as PIO4.

I did change the disc from channel 1 to channel 2 and that corrected the error, DVD and storage HD was connected to channel one.
I think it was some kind of error in the registry. I didn't have time to find out.

Hope it help

Alex


Thanks Alex :) Tried that... it'a a no go.

Funny thing is I've been digging into some Knowledge Bases on the Maxtor site. This linked to some MS stuff. There *is* an issue with XP (I'm on Win2K) where it can under some circumstances "step down" the performance of devices to PIO mode for the sake of (it decides) stability.

If, for instance it recieves a certain number of errors as UDMA... caused by wrong type of cable or whatever, then XP will reduce the device to the next lowest DMA Mode and then the next, and on down the line.

But, if the chipset doesn't allow it to "step down", and apparently some don't, then it will simply revert to PIO mode. Appaerntly once this happens then it will refuse to reset to DMA no matter what. The recourse is to unistall the EIDE channel in Device Manager and then reboot. This will cause XP to reinstall the driver and reset the channel... and then allow DMA to be set again.

Geee.... What fun! ;)

Thanks again Alex :)

Perry

[Perry]

Perry,

Perhaps those Maxtor drives are not giving the plug and play data back to Windows that it is looking for...

I had this problem on my laptop when I switched to newer 5400 rpm drives a few years back... they would not be detected by the bios and or plug and play of my Windows install as UDMA drives.

I actually had to go into the bios and take them off auto and designate the UDMA settings... then all was fine.

Bob L

Good idea!!! I tried it :) Still no joy here :( I had hopes there for that one!

Digging through Maxtor's Knowledge Base, there are a number of entries relating to similar problems of this kind... directly relating to DMA either not functioning properly or being mis-reported (which led me to also try your hard drive tests to be sure that it wasn't just a reporting issue).

I get the idea that Maxtor has definitley seen this problem before :eek:
And, in at least one place they make a point of saying that it isn't *their* fault! :rolleyes: Funny how that is.

Anyway... I'm running out of straws here. Now I'm going to have to try what I said earlier but still haven't done... move the OS to one of the Maxtor drives and see if it'll come up in the proper DMA mode as the only drive on the system. If that works then I'll try adding a second audio drive....... Fingers crossed.

This is getting a little ridiculous! :rolleyes:

Thanks for the suggestions! :)

Perry

[Bob L]

Perhaps saving a little money by using drives from another system is not really saving much money at all... is it. ;)

I think now, perhaps, might be a good time to head out to the local computer store for a few of the Western Digital drives that seem to be working fine on that system... maybe its time to retire the Maxtor drives or use them as data backup drives on another machine. :)

Bob L

[Burkeville]

I have tried various drives over the years and had clients bring their own. They always didn't bring what I asked them to. I wasn't thinking of saving money. I was just experimenting. Had good luck with the IBM deskstars. What do you reccomend as the best drive Bob?

[Bob L]

The best.... is whatever works... at this moment... on this system that I'm using to do my work. :)

And if something doesn't work... I have learned long ago that if a short amount of twiddling with it does not correct the problem... I replace it with something else that does work.

I have Maxtors, Western Digitals, IBM Deskstars, and just about everything else in my range of systems... some items work fine in some systems and not in others... so those items either end up working good in one of my systems or they end up in the closet. :)

Bob L

[Perry]

Perry,

It sounds like you're using the Maxtor drive and a CD/DVD unit on the same IDE channel?
You can't do this and get high level UDMA/PIO performance on the drive because the controller chipset will set itself up to the lowest common denominator which in this case is the slow CD/DVD unit. Get the Maxtor drive that's giving you a problem onto its own IDE channel or at least into a Master/Slave relationship on an IDE channel with a similarly rated drive.

Canipus

Sorry, I overlooked this post somehow earlier.

Yeah, I'm well aware of this sort of thing and this definitely isn't the problem here. I've tried these Maxtors as single drives on their own channel... still only come up in PIO mode, and slower than a turtle! ;)

Thanks,

Perry

[Perry]

The best.... is whatever works... at this moment... on this system that I'm using to do my work. :)

And if something doesn't work... I have learned long ago that if a short amount of twiddling with it does not correct the problem... I replace it with something else that does work.

I have Maxtors, Western Digitals, IBM Deskstars, and just about everything else in my range of systems... some items work fine in some systems and not in others... so those items either end up working good in one of my systems or they end up in the closet. :)

Bob L

"Whatever works!" That's one of my most used sayings... amen to that! ;)

I totally agree... my problem here in this particular instance is that I've built this computer for someone else, otherwise there'd be no problem here! :rolleyes:

I have some Maxtor drives but I only use those with my older dual PIII.. they work fine there. I generally use the WD "JB" model drives for audio and have had excellent results with those.

So far... everything I've tried has failed. I'm just about to put in a separate PCI ATA133 controler card and see what that does. Maybe it will recognize the Maxtor's properly as it will use it's own BIOS. It uses the Silicon Image Sil0680 IDE contoller chip. Anyone know if that one's ok for audio drives?

Thanks,

Perry

[Burkeville]

Perry deserves all the credit here. He installed a pci controller card it and it worked perfectly. Problem solved. Perry, how did you do it??

[Carlos Mills]

Sorry, I overlooked this post somehow earlier.

Yeah, I'm well aware of this sort of thing and this definitely isn't the problem here. I've tried these Maxtors as single drives on their own channel... still only come up in PIO mode, and slower than a turtle! ;)

Thanks,

Perry

Hi Perry,

As a side note, I' ve notes that some Maxtor drives don't like to be changed from Primary IDE port to secondary IDE port, and vice-versa. For instance, if you have a drive that is working in the PRIMARY IDE port/ SLAVE mode and you change it to the SECONDARY IDE / SLAVE, you will have problems. Put it back as a PRIMARY IDE / SLAVE and you will be all set.

Regards,

[Perry]

Hi Perry,

As a side note, I' ve notes that some Maxtor drives don't like to be changed from Primary IDE port to secondary IDE port, and vice-versa. For instance, if you have a drive that is working in the PRIMARY IDE port/ SLAVE mode and you change it to the SECONDARY IDE / SLAVE, you will have problems. Put it back as a PRIMARY IDE / SLAVE and you will be all set.

Regards,


Thanks for the tip Carlos! :) I don't normally want to have a hard drive telling me what to do like that. For some reason I sort of expect they will do as I suggest that they should. ;)

In this case, I'm making a few notes of my own... Note number 1: "Drop Maxtor drives from tall building!" :rolleyes: After that the notes get progressively more ani-social in their makeup. :eek:

I'm just doing some new tests here and I'll know shortly the results of my latest attempt to make these drives behave themselves. (I am quite stubborn about these things... but there are limits.)

I'm only 2 floors up... but maybe that would be enough for a good "drop test", or, to make up for the lack of altitude, perhaps "flying lessons" are in order :rolleyes:

Thanks again,

Perry

[matt]

LOL! I know the feeling. :D

[Perry]

LOL! I know the feeling. :D


:) Thanks Matt.

Well... I seem to have solved the problem at last... thankfully before flying lessons got started.

When I built my previous computer, which is almost identical to this new one, I had some problems with my UAD-1 card. The fix for that was re-installing Win2K as "Standard PC". That machine has been very solid and a real workhorse for quite some time now.

So, with this latest build I decided to do the same thing and installed Win2K as "Standard PC", since this had worked so well. Turns out that the Maxtor drives aren't happy with that, at least on this particular setup. The Western Digital drives don't have a problem with this.

Reinstalling Win2K as "ACPI" computer has the Maxtor drives booting into UDMA mode as they should and all seems well... at last. :rolleyes:

<sigh> Onward! :cool:

Perry

[Pedro Itriago]

Don't you feel sad it's over??

[Perry]

Don't you feel sad it's over??

But of course! :rolleyes:

Actually.. I know what you mean. There's that on going search for the answer that will solve the problem and it becomes a kind of game. And I think we, as beings, like to solve problems... and play games ;)

OTHO... this one wasn't all that fun anymore and I was tired of playing it! ;)

Besides, it's easy to simply create more problems to solve... heck, I do it all the time. :rolleyes:

All the best,

Perry

[Burkeville]

What is ACPI????? What is the difference between that and standard ???

[Pedro Itriago]

Taken from http://www.acpi.info/


>>ACPI (Advanced Configuration and Power Interface) is an open industry specification co-developed by Hewlett-Packard (http://www.compaq.com/), Intel (http://www.intel.com/), Microsoft (http://www.microsoft.com/), Phoenix (http://www.phoenix.com/), and Toshiba (http://www.toshiba.com/).
ACPI establishes industry-standard interfaces for OS-directed configuration and power management on laptops, desktops, and servers.

- An “interface” specification

- ACPI/OSPM replaces APM, MPS, and PnP BIOS Spec

- Defines


- Hardware registers - implemented in chipset silicon
- BIOS interfaces


- Configuration tables
- Interpreted executable function interface (Control Methods)
- Motherboard device enumeration and configuration

- System and device power states
- ACPI Thermal Model>>

Standard pc makes the power management and pnp asignments (among other things) the old fashion way, by making the OS adapt to what the hardware & bios tell it to be done and how it is configured