At last, Reproduced MWS strange grid issue!

[Yura]

I think I caught it as what it is... what I couldnt do before.
Bob, others, please verify what I got.

Just create click/conductor track to cursor pos., It must be 500 bars of length.

enter to grid mode = quarter.

say you wanna cange your default tempo from 120 (being as default) to 140 - change it.

go to bar number 250 (or near), mark any area beg=this bar, end=any.
cut the notes, and you see the first note of the bar #250 is still there:(
(tip of it).

Or, for most clarity what is going on, you can create click/conductor track about 2000 bars, go to the last bars (in grid mode) and zoom in full. you will see the divergence between note begining and grid line.

[JoergReiher]

Yep, I also had a tip of #250 here (SAWStudioBasic & Midiworkshop)...
and also I do understand now how to create click/conductor tracks, cool:-)

[Mountain Media]

I think I caught it as what it is... what I couldnt do before.
Bob, others, please verify what I got.

Just create click/conductor track to cursor pos., It must be 500 bars of length.

enter to grid mode = quarter.

say you wanna cange your default tempo from 120 (being as default) to 140 - change it.

go to bar number 250 (or near), mark any area beg=this bar, end=any.
cut the notes, and you see the first note of the bar #250 is still there:(
(tip of it).

Or, for most clarity what is going on, you can create click/conductor track about 2000 bars, go to the last bars (in grid mode) and zoom in full. you will see the divergence between note begining and grid line.It's probably because I don't know enough about MWS, but following what I think are George's instructions (as above) I can not get this to fail when running MWS under Full Version - 1.5a MWS and 3.9c SS Full. :confused:

[Bob L]

Yura,

Just when we think we nailed this bug... it seems to be system dependent... there is more to the story than just doing your simple test... I cannot duplicate the problem here.

There must be something else involved in the F-key layout or defaults or something that causes this problem.

But, I will keep looking... also... make sure you are using the latest version... there were many fixes for this problem along the way. (Version 1.5a)

Bob L

[Yura]

Yuup!

Sorry for being rejoiced so early :)

So, I see I'm somwhere on begining :D

Thanks fo info

P.S. yes, 15 A, all of new an shining

[Yura]

Hey, Bob!

Here's a little job for ya! (soory, where do you live and work :eek:, dont be angry)

I cought it!!!

You just changed the tempo as you like to do - with 1 click.
But I and JoergReiher did it gradually, click by click, as we always do while we searching our best suitable dance!
We got it
Thanks

[Bob L]

Still working fine for me here.

Give me another step by step and I'll see if I can duplicate this.

Bob L

[Yura]

OK,
Sorry again.


In the punto:

"say you wanna change your default tempo from 120 (being as default) to 140 - change it"

do the tempo changes with mouse clicks on the tempo data window, not in the menu.
take to info, It occures only if you go in increase of tempo. click by click

[Bob L]

Yura,

Still don't see it here... by the way... some of the fixes for this problem was in the SAWStudio code, not the MWS code... are you using the latest SAWStudio version?

Bob L

[JoergReiher]

Hi, I did it again:
My default tempo is 100, SAW set to tempo mode, grids off
1. Start SAWStudioBasic 1.4c
2. Left-click on multitrack position display and set position to 8001<01<000
3. Right-click on first midi track label and "create click/conductor track to cursor position"
4. Switch on Grid Mode in MWS
5. Increase the tempo in MWS to 120 by clicking the right side of the tempo display
6. Left-click on multitrack position display and set position back to 8001<01<000
7. Zoom MWS track in as much as you can
-> The timelines of MWS and SAW are out of sync now (about 0000<00<001:-)
I also figured out that if I raise the tempo from 100 to 120, normally it jumps up 1 value at a time, but from 111 to 112, there's no 112 but 111.999, and the following value is the expected 113?
Here's a shot of the result:
http://www.media-jam.de/temp/screenshots/SAWStudioMWS.JPG

[Yura]

Yura,

Still don't see it here... by the way... some of the fixes for this problem was in the SAWStudio code, not the MWS code... are you using the latest SAWStudio version?

Bob L

I understand.
Of course, I see it in the SSb 14c + MWS 15a....
Let me time out...

Later.

[Yura]

Thank you Joerg



The very important step for those who still dont see it:


Hi, I did it again:
.....
5. Increase the tempo in MWS to 120 by clicking the right side of the tempo display


I mean if I change the tempo choosing Metronome Zone (menu of options for adjusting tempo), I dont see any deviations betwen notes and grid then.
Only making 20 consequent clicks on Tempo Readout Display (right side of it) causing the problem.

[Mountain Media]

Thank you Joerg

The very important step for those who still dont see it:

I mean if I change the tempo choosing Metronome Zone (menu of options for adjusting tempo), I dont see any deviations betwen notes and grid then.
Only making 20 consequent clicks on Tempo Readout Display (right side of it) causing the problem.Yura, Joerg and Bob --
I was able to recreate this twice, using the 1-beat steps, as Joerg and George described. I am using 3.9c Full Version and 1.5a MWS. It's not due to old version nor Full versus Basic.

1) Select Grid with Qtr Note
2) Set Tempo to 120
3) Set Time Signature to 4/4 (important, at least for my re-creation)
4) Mark MWS track region from 1 - 500
5) Create default Click/Conductor to Cursor Position
6) Change Tempo from 120 to 140 - USING 1-STEP INCREMENTS -
7) Go to 250, Select 250 as Beg of region (marked to end of track-500)
8) Delete marked
9) Small yellow tip of first deleted note is still showing at 250

Think this is what they were seeing --

[Mountain Media]

I also figured out that if I raise the tempo from 100 to 120, normally it jumps up 1 value at a time, but from 111 to 112, there's no 112 but 111.999, and the following value is the expected 113?Bob, not sure if this is associated with the displaying beginning tip of note after delete, but -- this x.999 tempo is repeatable, also.

Set tempo, using 'Adjust Existing Tempo from Within Section' to 110 or 120. Increment tempo by 1-click steps. 111.999 (instead of 112) and 122.999 (instead of 123) displays. This does not seem to happen at any other tempos (not between 100-10, 130-140 or 140-150). Once the x.999 displays, you can navigate up or down, in 1-click increments and it will display correctly, including 112 and 123.

[Yura]

At Last...

It seems to hard to detect untill I make some words to bold :)
Please read steps carefully :)


It seems there is the linear-dependency of deviation with a very small angle(-coefficient)... between the grid and quantized entryes.

[Yura]

Bob, not sure if this is associated with the displaying beginning tip of note after delete, but -- this x.999 tempo is repeatable, also.

Set tempo, using 'Adjust Existing Tempo from Within Section' to 110 or 120. Increment tempo by 1-click steps. 111.999 (instead of 112) and 122.999 (instead of 123) displays. This does not seem to happen at any other tempos (not between 100-10, 130-140 or 140-150). Once the x.999 displays, you can navigate up or down, in 1-click increments and it will display correctly, including 112 and 123.

OK, I confirm it too. that's it.

[Bob L]

Ok,

Finally duplicated the little bugger... everything goes off when the .999 comes into play... reseting the tempo directly to an exact value seems to correct the problem.

I will dive in to find out where the math is going off in the single step function... must be some kind of round-off error... arrrgh... I hate floating point. :)

Bob L

[MMP]

I don't know if the software module that is having rounding errors is shared, or the same as that which controls the frame count on the video track, but I seem to have a somewhat related problem. Sometimes when slipping a MT session or editing video only on the video track, the program will not let me move to certain frame addresses. Usually wanting to move everything one frame later down the timeline, like it is rounding up to the next frame. I haven't been able to find the commonality between times when this happens, but it is frustrating to tell the software to do something and have it refuse.http://www.sawstudiouser.net/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

MM

[Bob L]

When you find some details Michael, pass em on and I'll look into it if I can duplicate the problem.

The floating point thing is annoying and I'm very glad that I did not use it in my main engine as most others did.

There are certain areas where it is used, like the timeline... and it has been a constant headache since day 1.

Getting better with each code adjustment though. :)

Bob L