MIDI Workshop live

[Johnny Dee]

We presently own SAC and SAWLite. Mainly, we have used SAC as we do a fair amount of live sound reinforcement jobs.

Our company is also a DJ company and we do major DJ mobile jobs with big light shows, video screens, etc.

What we wish to do is add a female vocalist and male guitarist/vocalist to our DJ jobs...using sequences (not karaoke). Both my Son and I are musicians as well so the concept of using sequences works for us.

I am considering the MIDI Workshop software but I'm not sure that it will do what we want. I like the idea of everything on the one computer.

This is our problem:

I need to be searching and setting up the next song while a song is playing without any lapse in time between songs. I downloaded the MIDI Workshop demo and it seems that this is not possible with this software. I realize that this software is mainly for studio work where you are just working on one song at a time.

Has anyone done this or have a work around as I would love to use this software if possible.

Thanks.

[RBIngraham]

We presently own SAC and SAWLite. Mainly, we have used SAC as we do a fair amount of live sound reinforcement jobs.

Our company is also a DJ company and we do major DJ mobile jobs with big light shows, video screens, etc.

What we wish to do is add a female vocalist and male guitarist/vocalist to our DJ jobs...using sequences (not karaoke). Both my Son and I are musicians as well so the concept of using sequences works for us.

I am considering the MIDI Workshop software but I'm not sure that it will do what we want. I like the idea of everything on the one computer.

This is our problem:

I need to be searching and setting up the next song while a song is playing without any lapse in time between songs. I downloaded the MIDI Workshop demo and it seems that this is not possible with this software. I realize that this software is mainly for studio work where you are just working on one song at a time.

Has anyone done this or have a work around as I would love to use this software if possible.

Thanks.

If you use the Show Control window in SAW you could make up playlists and then jump around within the play list. But even then it wouldn't let you do anything with the "next" song while the current one is playing, except to scroll up and down the playlist perhaps.

Play around with the Show Control window, that is where the functions you are looking for are at. It might serve all your needs, or maybe not. If the SAW edl file makes use of MIDI workshop then it will play the MIDI data when you trigger it within the Show Control window.

Think of MIDI Workshop as more of a MIDI plug-in for SAW than a stand alone sequencing app. Without SAW, it really doesn't do anything on it's own.

[mr_es335]

Hello,

The Show Control is a great feature...I use it a great deal.

However, it does not allow you load tunes on-the-fly.

What file format are you wanting to use...MP3, MIDI...? I use MIDI files most of the time, which is where MIDI Workshop comes into play.

This might help...if you knew ahead of time what tunes you might use, you can load these in Show Control, save the session and set all of the options to Wait or No. Then while a tune is playing you can then select another tune from the list and that will be the one that will play next.

You can also, through the use of Ctrl and the UP/DOWN arrow keys - change the order of the items in the Show Control listing.

You can also use a Jukebox-type VST to load WAV's/MP3's and do it that way. Not sure if this is what you want of if that will work for you though.

Hope this helps?

[Ian Alexander]

I don't know much about MIDI and I'm about to show it. In these days of cheap hard drives, why not render all the backing tracks as stereo or mono wavs and play those from a SS edl, using Show Control to set up play lists and choose requests as needed? It seems to me that the fewer programs (VSTs, midi, etc.) involved, the less likely you are to encounter a show-stopper.

Of course, it would be easier to edit MIDI tracks if needed and not replace the wavs every time you make a change. Do you change instrumentation depending on which musicians show up for gigs? In that case you'd have to render to individual tracks and mute as needed.

[Johnny Dee]

We need to use the MIDI sequences rather than mp3 or wav files. We want to have control over each of the instruments on the sequence.

As I mentioned, we are DJ's and we are adding the live entertainers more as a "show" during the evening. At times it might be just the vocalist, at other times we may add a live guitarist and/or drummer so we need the ability to remove these parts from the track.

The live entertainment might only do 10 to 12 songs during the night...but we are heavy into lighting so that when they are on it is "showtime". Our goal is not to make it look like karaoke to the guests. We would mostly be booking this for weddings and corporate.

[cgrafx]

We need to use the MIDI sequences rather than mp3 or wav files. We want to have control over each of the instruments on the sequence.

As I mentioned, we are DJ's and we are adding the live entertainers more as a "show" during the evening. At times it might be just the vocalist, at other times we may add a live guitarist and/or drummer so we need the ability to remove these parts from the track.

The live entertainment might only do 10 to 12 songs during the night...but we are heavy into lighting so that when they are on it is "showtime". Our goal is not to make it look like karaoke to the guests. We would mostly be booking this for weddings and corporate.

You don't need MIDI to add or remove tracks from the show.

Render each MIDI track to a separate wav file and do a live multi-track playback. You would have just as much control and its easier to manage.

Have a live guitar player, just turn off the guitar track. Mix to taste...

[Bob L]

Midi sequences live can be problematic... create in midi on any sequencer program or the Midi Workshop in SAWStudio... then render each of the instruments to separate tracks... now use SAWStudio as the multitrack playback for your show... with SAC as the console or thru any mixer.

This way... you eliminate the many things that can go crazy with midi gear during the performance and you still have the ability to adjust, eq, compress, mute etc... any of the instruments live during the show... but the tracks are just wav file playback... and not pre-mixed.

Then you can use SAWStudio Show Control... or Ctrl-Trk options to jump around from song to song... or even use a midi keyboard to trigger instantly any song from the complete list of all songs you have ready to go... randomly on the fly... during the show.

Bob L

[RBIngraham]

Hello,

The Show Control is a great feature...I use it a great deal.

However, it does not allow you load tunes on-the-fly.

What file format are you wanting to use...MP3, MIDI...? I use MIDI files most of the time, which is where MIDI Workshop comes into play.

This might help...if you knew ahead of time what tunes you might use, you can load these in Show Control, save the session and set all of the options to Wait or No. Then while a tune is playing you can then select another tune from the list and that will be the one that will play next.

You can also, through the use of Ctrl and the UP/DOWN arrow keys - change the order of the items in the Show Control listing.

You can also use a Jukebox-type VST to load WAV's/MP3's and do it that way. Not sure if this is what you want of if that will work for you though.

Hope this helps?

He could simply add all the possible edl files he might need to a Show Control list in SAW and then chose the correct ones to play. Not as fool proof as just pressing GO on the "next" song, but it would work just fine. The only catch other than possible operator error would be that if the edl is large and has to load a lot of VST plugs, it sometimes doesn't start instantaneously, unless you double click to load it first. But you couldn't double click on the Show Control entry while another is playing.

[RBIngraham]

We need to use the MIDI sequences rather than mp3 or wav files. We want to have control over each of the instruments on the sequence.

As I mentioned, we are DJ's and we are adding the live entertainers more as a "show" during the evening. At times it might be just the vocalist, at other times we may add a live guitarist and/or drummer so we need the ability to remove these parts from the track.

The live entertainment might only do 10 to 12 songs during the night...but we are heavy into lighting so that when they are on it is "showtime". Our goal is not to make it look like karaoke to the guests. We would mostly be booking this for weddings and corporate.


I can create very interactive music cues for my theatre shows, where I bring in or out instruments on a cue taken from an actors line or movement all the time, without using any MIDI at all. As others have mentioned, simple render each track separately and play them all back in SAW. You could even bring them into SAC on individual inputs and mix them just like a mic from a live musician. When you have the live musician either mute the playback track or heck use the same input channel in SAC and just change the input patch.

There are a few things that MIDI or ACID encoded loops can do better than straight tracks, but from what it sounds like you're talking about, you don't need that. MIDI can do things like changing the tempo on the fly or changing the key on the fly. (not sure how well MWS handles that to be honest as I have not had my MWS license long enough to really play with that kind of thing, but other MIDI sequencers that cater more to the DJ type musician can do that sort of thing amazingly well) Playing with MIDI can also allow you to improvise and jump between short looped sequences on the fly. But I don't really think MWS is the right tool for that. It's a pretty traditional linear playback/recording tool as far as MIDI goes, just like SAW is pretty much a multi-track recorder with a nice mixing engine and automation attached. (to put it in very simple terms, obviously it can do a lot more....) It doesn't sound like you really need that kind of improvisation type thing really other than being able to mute or unmute certain tracks and choose a playlist from a library of material. If you do need that more improvisational tool, I would recommend you look at the tools that excel at that type of work, such as Ableton Live or Cakewalk's Project 5, the later of which is now just integrated right into Sonar (yep, more bloat added into Sonar).

It all depends on what you really need to do.

[Johnny Dee]

My Son purchased Ableton Live (version 8), Maschine, and Komplete Audio 6 last week. We haven't had much time so far to see what we can do with this stuff...but he originally bought it with the thought of using it live while he is DJing. He uses a Mac with Serato.

Don't know at this point if they can be used in any way with the live entertainer concept (other than using the sounds...strings, drums, keyboards, etc.).

[RBIngraham]

My Son purchased Ableton Live (version 8), Maschine, and Komplete Audio 6 last week. We haven't had much time so far to see what we can do with this stuff...but he originally bought it with the thought of using it live while he is DJing. He uses a Mac with Serato.

Don't know at this point if they can be used in any way with the live entertainer concept (other than using the sounds...strings, drums, keyboards, etc.).

Normally you use some kind of MIDI controller to trigger phrases which repeat until you turn them off or move onto the next batch of phrases. You play them live with musicians just like could do with any other instrument. But your son would have to do more playing than just "spinning" tunes.

If all you want is the typical backing tracks, render to SAW and turn the correct ones on or off. This is how it's done on cruise ships all the time, not with SAW (at least none of the ships I've been on anyway) but the same basic idea.

Probably depends on the type and style of music you are wishing to perform as well. Some styles of music lend themselves well to loops being triggered, others not so much.

[Johnny Dee]

Thanks for all the input guys...it's appreciated.