Tascam US 2400

[Reggie Spires]

I know Bob and many here are not concernes with the controller issue but one simple question, Is there a way to configure the Tascam US 2400 so that all the faders work. I think it would be the same as configuring Mackie extenders. I can get one bank of eight faders to work with trasport but not the other 2 banks of faders.

Thanks

[Bob L]

A special template would have to be created probably.

It gets hard to do so with each of these controllers because everyone is so completely different from the rest... so much for standards. :)

Bob L

[Reggie Spires]

Thanks for your time

[Bob L]

If you send me some midi-ox capture information that shows the exact controller information being sent when you move the faders and press the mute switches and so forth... I can take a look at trying to create a template.

Are the faders motorized?

Bob L

[SoundSuite]

Hi Reggie,

I know this is not a fix to enable all 24 channels of control, but make sure you have the following checked...

Mixer Menu > Navigation Links > Mixer Views To Hardware Controller

This will make channel 1 on your controller follow the hot track on the MT.
IE, if hot track is MT1, controller faders are 1-8
if Hot track is MT9, controller faders are 9-16

Again, not a fix for all 24 of your faders, but it will let you use 8 at a time, and any 8, not just MT1-8
:)


ps, the Tascam appears to be following the Mackie 'standard', Bob, maybe adding the Mackie expander(s) function would give function to the Tascam inherently?

[Bob L]

You may find that to be a better solution anyway... when 24 faders are active and chasing, you will find a serious pull down on the cpu and the responsiveness of SAWStudio as a whole... these midi controllers can take things way down into the mud very quickly.

Bob L

[Reggie Spires]

I don't think so bob with this one but you definitly know more about that than I do .. it is usb first of all and I really like the fders .. they are motorized... THe different banks need different channels .. I hope you take a look at it... I agree with you that it is fine to mix without it especially when you get used to doing that but here is one big issue... (i know you are about to thow up at this) .. what I am finding in my market is that i need to creat a perception to generate business and real faders help me do that. THis controller is not on the expensive side in my opinion for 24 faders. Thats all I want it to do is do faders mute and solo and pan.

If you support the mackie extenders I believe it wowuld work the same way as they do so you could kill two birds with one stone

[AudioAstronomer]

Hrm... Ive been reading the manual and it seems like in native mode it would be possible, but it expects you to treat it like 3 different controllers somehow?

weird.

[Bob L]

If it requires more than 1 midi port to do it... then it will not fit into the SAWStudio scheme of things.

The Mackie extenders each require a separate midi port, which is an absolutely ridiculous design concept in my opinion.

If this requires different midi channels on the same port... it may work.

If so, you would have to send me a log from Midi Ox and we'll go from there.

But I still question your reasoning about attracting clients... what's funny for me is that I'm getting famous in Vegas and attracting clients for the opposite reason... people are coming round to see how I can do the work I do with only a laptop and no real studio control room full of equipment... its actually attracting more business because without faders is a lot more high tech than lots of faders... faders are old hat compared to the new technology. :)

Its all in your perspective... and all I can say is... its a good thing for me that I don't depend on my old control room and faders and controllers and racks of gear, or right now I would not have been able to finish the Lon Bronson project I was in the middle of since the fire.

I've happily completed the rest of the mixes with one computer and a $49 work table from Office Depot... and let's not forget my trusty Sony V6 headphones... and you can't tell the difference between the mixes I did in my $182,000 control room and the ones I just finished last week.

Isn't virtual a dream? :D

Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

It does require 3 midi ports. Ive read over the manual a few times.

[Reggie Spires]

Bob

You are Bob .. that is the reason .. and you are in Vegas.. I am reggie and in Alabama .. they just discovered the computer last year I think ... :) Once again I agree with you 100 %

How do I send that to you .. the cool thing is that it is usb and the drivers actually installs 5 ports ... so I only have one physical connection. That might not matter in the programmers world. Anyway I know you hate spending time on this issue so I will cease with it.

Thanks again I think it is so incredible that you are accessible to your clients.

[AudioAstronomer]

Reggie, It maybe possible that one of those midi driver things would allow you to merge data on ports to a single port on multiple channels

Dont give up yet! There is still hope.

Does anyone know of something that can merge data coming in from multiple ports to a single port but split on channels? That would allow for these controllers to work properly with a template.

[Reggie Spires]

Thanks Robert...

[Bob L]

It is so hard for me to believe the insanity of this multi-port design, especially on Windows which already has midi port limits in certain OS versions... are these developers completely unconcious or what?

You have 120 or so useful controller numbers and 16 midi channels to use... how many faders do they think people need?

1 Midi port... 120 x 16 controls... Hello!!!!

Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

Bob, or someone more midi oriented than I... do any of these loopback drivers or similiar have the ability to merge midi port information to a single port?

[Reggie Spires]

In my other DAW apps the ports show up as usb audio port .. that is why I am wondering if it even really has to do with midi...

The USB audio ports are put there when you install the controller .. and the show up in Sawstudio

[Veit Kenner]

If you send me some midi-ox capture information that shows the exact controller information being sent when you move the faders and press the mute switches and so forth... I can take a look at trying to create a template.
Reggie,

in case you want to provide this information to Bob I dug up some old posting by Steven Berson from some time ago describing the procedure on how to use MidiOx to aquire the data and what to do with it.

I hope this is usefull info for you :-)

Veit

===================

"Download MIDI-OX from http://www.midiox.com
This is a utility that can read midi data streams in a number of ways.
You can use this to create a text file recording the midi data being sent. It's help file can guide you how to do this.
While recording midi as text go to your first channels fader and go from its lowest to highest settings. Do this in order of channels for all of the faders on the board.
Follow this in order of channel with all the pans, mutes, and solos.
Edit the text file so that for each fader, pan, solo or mute you have only the lowest and highest readings (i.e get rid of all the settings in between) and label what
channel and what function each reading is."

===================

[Reggie Spires]

Thanks a bunch

[Reggie Spires]

Bob

One more time .. you don't ever see incudling the mackie extenders in the saw platform? I know there way of using different Midi ports is crazy to you but do the do it to cut down on the CPU drag?

Just wondering before I deciede my future

[Bob L]

Midi ports are scarce items on a PC in today's Windows.

With the Midi WorkShop and the ports needed for in and out controllers and also for sync... I hesitate to rewrite the entire engine design to handle multiple port polling just to look for fader moves.

No telling if I will ever extend to the multi-port design for controllers, but as of now its not high on my list of things I must or want to do.

Reggie.... be careful about basing your future DAW decision on controller compatibility... its not a very wise thing to do in my opinion, especially since once you really learn what SAWStudio brings to the table you will most likely put your controller in the closet or on EBay shortly thereafter... as many others have done, even though they assured me it would never happen for them. :)

Just something else to think about.

Bob L

[Reggie Spires]

As always thanks for the timly response Bob ... man I wish it wasn't such a big deal and eaisly deoable and everyone would be happy .. but I understand ... No I would not base my future soley on that. Again I wish I carried the rep that you do and it would not matter but as I stated eailier it seems to be a big deal to the "Client" that is uneducated. I would love to hear from some others and see if I am the only one that believes perception is reality....

[Mountain Media]

As always thanks for the timly response Bob ... man I wish it wasn't such a big deal and eaisly deoable and everyone would be happy .. but I understand ... No I would not base my future soley on that. Again I wish I carried the rep that you do and it would not matter but as I stated eailier it seems to be a big deal to the "Client" that is uneducated. I would love to hear from some others and see if I am the only one that believes perception is reality....Base solely on my small world, SAWStudio's been successful in convincing two 'control surface fanatical' studios and three clients who ABSOLUTELY, felt 'big' and fancy boxes 'CAUSED' better sound, that a good PC with good audio interface and my mouse compatible input device provided 'sound' at least as good as the digital devices that have physical controls (primarily, what was impressive were moveable faders).

Basically, in all of these 'revelations', it was the final sound and the time to complete rather complex edits that convinced them. I would say, that most reasonable clients would be willing to base their decision of studio use on results, not solely on looks or controls available. FWIW :)

[Alan Lastufka]

I'll forward this thread to Jeff Hurchalla and see if he can comment on the midi port problem and see if there is a way of overcoming it. Jeff is a freind of mine, he created MIDI-Maple and Maestro Tools for Garritan and is a whiz at all things midi. He writes many MIDI apps and would be the one to get to the bottom of this if there is one. :)

[SoundSuite]

As always thanks for the timly response Bob ... man I wish it wasn't such a big deal and eaisly deoable and everyone would be happy .. but I understand ... No I would not base my future soley on that. Again I wish I carried the rep that you do and it would not matter but as I stated eailier it seems to be a big deal to the "Client" that is uneducated. I would love to hear from some others and see if I am the only one that believes perception is reality....
The main reason I have a controller is for the clients.
There is no way they can feel like they participated in the mix without one.
I like to let them rough it in, ie give general mix volumes and pans, etc, then I/we go from there inside totally.

I like it personally for roughing drum parts.

After the initial rough-in it is no longer needed or used, though.

[Reggie Spires]

Thanks everyone for the input... I like the faders .. I don't need it to do more than vol, mute, solo, and pan... mabye Bob will find some time to give it a look...

[Reggie Spires]

Would love to hear from some more folks

are physical farders inmportant to you or not

[AudioAstronomer]

Would love to hear from some more folks

are physical farders inmportant to you or not
Well I went from PTHD with control (and my angela)... to samplitude with my amek angela (hand me down of sorts)...

to sawstudio. No controller. And my business load has increased dramatically.... better results, faster results.

I have a mackie control that I really had to work hard to fix (physically it was busted).. and I tried it in saw... it was really cool but after experiencing how quick and amazing it is to work in saw, I gave it up in a few hours.

That's it really.. sold everything else and now keep a nice little investment fund from all that junk (that really cost me tons of money but was a good lesson haha)

[Craig Allen]

Would love to hear from some more folks

are physical farders inmportant to you or not
For live, absolutely - I couldn't do it without my Behringer BCF2000. For recording, I rarely use it.

[Dave Tosti-Lane]

Would love to hear from some more folks

are physical farders inmportant to you or not

For some mixes. As I've said before, I use the faders on my 01V96 to do rough-in automation for environmental mixes with lots of tracks - but once it's roughed in, I switch off the surface and do final adjustments with the mouse.

(though I might use the faders for final adjustments if Bob found a way to make live adjustment of previous automation workable)

But I only have that mixer on one of my systems, and I can't say that I miss it all that much on the others. (and I worked happily without it for years)

Dave Tosti-Lane

[Base1studio]

Would love to hear from some more folks

are physical farders inmportant to you or not

I understand the perception thing, I get a lot of clients who are first timers in a studio. So when they see the control room with The O2R in the custom built console and all the racked outboard gear surrounding, there's a lot of ooohs!! and aaaahs....But I think ultimately, when they hear the results that SAW gives, is what really sells em. And honestly, the O2R is just window dressing now, I haven't done a mix on it since I got SAW. And I track with outboard preamps and converters so the O2R is nothing more than a "traditional" looking display. I'm in the process of building a new facility and when the time comes to move equipment in, it's gonna be a real tough call if it's worth even setting the O2R up. If I do, it's only for that ooooh and aaah factor.

Good luck,

Todd
Base1

[Reggie Spires]

Great Feedback Guys

[Bob L]

I have found that with the right attitude about it... I am getting more oohs and ahhhs by NOT having the traditional console and physical gear and faders... EVERYTIME!!!

When they see and hear me doing what SAWStudio does and they realize everything is in the computer... people start really oohhing and ahhhing... this is soooooo hi tech in their minds...

Much more impressive than racks full of gear... in my opinion... I guess its all a matter of perspective...

Pulling up great sounding samples with no gear... setting up and instantly recalling mix after mix from their album project... incredible... tweaking small details of a complex mix... within seconds... then building a new mix... exactly like the old one with just the small changes... amazing... let's talk about WOW factor. :)

I fear the real issue is engineers addicted to all the lights and physical gear more so than the clients.... if you let go and move into this new virtual world... your clients will make the transition pretty easily. :D

Bob L

[brent]

I understand the perception thing, I get a lot of clients who are first timers in a studio. So when they see the control room with The O2R in the custom built console and all the racked outboard gear surrounding, there's a lot of ooohs!! and aaaahs....But I think ultimately, when they hear the results that SAW gives, is what really sells em. And honestly, the O2R is just window dressing now, I haven't done a mix on it since I got SAW. And I track with outboard preamps and converters so the O2R is nothing more than a "traditional" looking display. I'm in the process of building a new facility and when the time comes to move equipment in, it's gonna be a real tough call if it's worth even setting the O2R up. If I do, it's only for that ooooh and aaah factor.

Good luck,

Todd
Base1

Buy a big impressive looking AMR console, run signal through it so the meters happen, and use SAW. The people get the shock and awe and you get their money. Alot of inexperienced people automatically draw the conclusion that having software with a home PC is not as "professional", meaning that is something anyone can go buy and learn. In today's market people think it is the tools that manipulate, not the talent. "Hey, this is my friend Jack and HEEEEEE has a "STUDIO!" (Then I think: "Well, big freakin deal!") If you are trying to operate a business, you don't want them thinking that you have something they can master. Because the industry does not care about skill! Listen to the crap on radio and for sale as "music" at the stores.

I think we all went through this with ADATs. People went nuts with the home studio gear, the working studios saw a hit in their return business while their clientele practiced home medicine on their own projects. Some people came back, but some did not. Today, none of us can afford to give up any sales be it short term or long term.

Sure they can hire you to come to their place, but chances are it is not a good room, and you are not getting whtayou would have per hour had they been at your own studio.

I still have all of the stuff out, so that the shallow people get their eye candy.

Obviously people "in the know" who are to old and tired to carry around a bunch of crap, like the laptop and a gig bag of I/O. So we like these people.

[Mountain Media]

Obviously people "in the know" who are to old and tired to carry around a bunch of crap, like the laptop and a gig bag of I/O. So we like these people.And am I ever one of the 'old' ones!! I record on multi-track HD recorder, but the SS laptop goes to many other studios for client mixing. I remember some of my first 'remote' on-location gigs using a RAMSA 16-channel in a road case that had to roll on wheels, barely fit in the back of my Explorer and took two folks (or one broken back!:) ) to get it out and onto it's casters! Now, it's two 4-space SKB cases! Now, the RAMSA road-case sits in the corner, and I use it for stacking stuff on top!

I'm definitely 'sold' on SS being the next on-location recorder for me, now it's just the financial 'buy'.

I believe we'll see more and more studios going away from consoles, control surfaces and racks - and I FULLY believe SAWStudio is at the leading-edge bleeding-edge?) of what's needed to make this transition. Not Windows entangled packages, not PTHD's, but intuitive, fast, stable, high-quality software/DAW packages, with SAWStudio at the FOREFRONT!! Just my opinion -- :)

[brent]

And am I ever one of the 'old' ones!! I record on multi-track HD recorder, but the SS laptop goes to many other studios for client mixing. I remember some of my first 'remote' on-location gigs using a RAMSA 16-channel in a road case that had to roll on wheels, barely fit in the back of my Explorer and took two folks (or one broken back!:) ) to get it out and onto it's casters! Now, it's two 4-space SKB cases! Now, the RAMSA road-case sits in the corner, and I use it for stacking stuff on top!

I'm definitely 'sold' on SS being the next on-location recorder for me, now it's just the financial 'buy'.

I believe we'll see more and more studios going away from consoles, control surfaces and racks - and I FULLY believe SAWStudio is at the leading-edge bleeding-edge?) of what's needed to make this transition. Not Windows entangled packages, not PTHD's, but intuitive, fast, stable, high-quality software/DAW packages, with SAWStudio at the FOREFRONT!! Just my opinion -- :)

It is funny that you meantion "fast" and PTHD together. Right now a BUNCH of poeple are pretty ticked about the speed of Apples OSX.3, and this has taken it's toll on PT and other Mac based DAWs, applications, plugs, etc. So now, PT is slower than it ever has been since version 6.2 on OS 9.2. I suspect that people will be jumping ship from Mac.

[Mountain Media]

...... So now, PT is slower than it ever has been since version 6.2 on OS 9.2. I suspect that people will be jumping ship from Mac.Interesting info -- I haven't kept up with much of the Mac OS status. Lots of SAWStudio Life Preservers waiting for the 'rescue'! :)