interesting VH interview

[mghtx]

A new Eddie Van Halen interview in Guitar World magazine has some interesting comments on recording. Some highlights:

1) He has an SSL board that he calls a "million dollar piece of sh*t." He states that he basically gutted the thing to disable most of the high tech features so that he could get it to work like an analog board.

2) He recorded the new album with no eq from the board. Just used mic placement. He also used as little compression as possible.

3) His opinion of Pro Tools? "Pro Tools tends to remove the life from music by making everything so a$$hole tight." And, "the invention of Pro Tools-that's when the music business went down the tubes." (I wish Bob could show him SAW!)

4) Perhaps the most revealing...."the most important thing I requested was that we not use any compression on the radio mixes." From what I gather, he and Glenn Ballard mastered the new CD.

Tonight when I was coming home I heard the new song, "It's About Time", on the radio and it sounded GREAT! The song itself has some parts I'm not crazy about but the sound was very good. It's good to see and hear the guys making music again.

[TotalSonic]

A new Eddie Van Halen interview in Guitar World magazine has some interesting comments on recording. Some highlights:


3) His opinion of Pro Tools? "Pro Tools tends to remove the life from music by making everything so a$$hole tight." And, "the invention of Pro Tools-that's when the music business went down the tubes." (I wish Bob could show him SAW!)

I have a very definite feeling that he was referring to digital editing and recording workstations in general and not PT in specific - I don't think seeing SAW would sway him at all. From everything I have read it seems Eddie's a 2" kinda guy. This might surprise some here - but for hard rock stuff (like Van Halen, AC/DC, Fugazi, etc) I still think tracking to analog can be your best choice if you have the budget to do it. I don't do much work in this regard though - for the kind of material I track (mostly hip-hop / house - and on the total other end of the spectrum -chamber!) I find that SAW's been my best bet. OMMV.

Interesting side note: I recently got a project in for CD mastering at Europadisk that was mixed at the Hit Factory. They provided both a 15ips 1/4" and a DAT made simultaneously off of the board. The tape was simply so much more "right" sounding than the DAT - especially in the 3k area - yet surprisingly all the highs were still there. The DAT seemed to have a little more of lower bottom - but both the client and I picked the analog as the one to master off of. Made me actually think of wanting to get a 1/4" mixdown deck for the first time in ages. Unfortunately I already have way too many other cool toys on my wish list ahead of this!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Jesse Skeens]

I agree, I don't think SAW would make a difference to him. It's not PT or any DAWs' fault, but the operator abusing their capabilities.

Steve, what house stuff do you track? Not sure if you've ever heard of the UK label Hooj Choons or US label SAW Recordings, but I have some EP's on them.

Jesse

[TotalSonic]

I agree, I don't think SAW would make a difference to him. It's not PT or any DAWs' fault, but the operator abusing their capabilities.

Steve, what house stuff do you track? Not sure if you've ever heard of the UK label Hooj Choons or US label SAW Recordings, but I have some EP's on them.

Jesse

Hey Jesse -
Funny coincidence - I'm running a rush promo CD-R duplication job for SAW Recordings #33 as I'm typing this. (Having internet forums to post on makes having to check the burners & printers every few minutes a heckuva lot less boring). Hector Romero is a seriously cool person & I think the stuff Satoshi makes is among best of its class.
I've done a ton of replication work for SAW Recordings / Definity / Defmix (and also other labels like MAW, Central Park, etc.) and have done some occasional editing for them - but no tracks as of yet - might not be a bad thing to try and do and solicit them at some point - but they keep their roster fairly tightly knit.

The house stuff I've tracked has mainly been for wannabes - no hits or major releases on any of my credits - but for me this kind of stuff is just to pay the rent anyway - my real passion is for acoustic music - although I definitely have fun with the programming end too.

Recently I've been tracking cuts for a full length CD release house for French underground cabaret singer D-Xristo (Christophe Nayel) - it's pretty much novelty chants over grooves I usually will lay down in a single day. To make a track Christophe just sings some simple phrase to me (like "Taste Me Good" over and over - don't ask) and I just program the 4 on the floor, layer up the samples and synths, track his vox in an hour, and a mix in another 4. I just wish writing string quartets was this easy!

I've been more frustrated in that an album that was half tracked at my place for this duo that does spoken word over hip hop beats called El Fuma has been having its release stalled - this stuff is seriously off the hook with kind of a Richard Pryor meets Last Poets meets Pharcyde vibe to it. The tracking was a bit more rushed than I'd have liked for best results because they were operating on a seriously low budget but I'm really happy with a lot of the mixes on it.

If I can get clearances from some of these guys I'll try and post some mp3s or oggs of some of the better tracks of this stuff up at some point. Maybe it would be nice if SAWStudio Radio was revived!! It would be great to get more chances to hear what everyone was doing.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Jesse Skeens]

Steve,

Hehe small world. Yes Hec is really cool, Satoshi too. Havent seen those guys in a while. We have another EP coming out that we gave them with the tracks for our last one. Not sure what their release schedule is though. One thing I like about them is that they really care about pressing quality.

Jesse

[matt]

Back to the thing on Eddie... I read an article years ago where he pleaded with the engineer not to have to overdub parts when recording their first album. I got the impression that he is very conservative. He eventually did get into the overdubbing thing... can you imagine, that's so radical! :0 There are a lot of engineers who cling to doing things the same way because of security in practice and not because it sounds better. I worked with 2" and yes it can squish the signal and add distortion, but even rock sounds better live. The less limitations there are on a recording medium, the closer you can get to that. It just requires you to adapt to it.

[mghtx]

Oh yes, Eddie is definitely a tape guy. He just doesn't like for EVERYTHING to be perfect. You know, it won't be long before those that remember LP's and that sound are gone. Well, what I mean is that kids today only know digital and consider that the "right" sound. It doesn't sound "cold" to them because they haven't heard "warm."

[bertie]

hi,

I think that Eddie's sound engineer :mad: should go to RML web page and watch closely Bob's videos about SAWStudio....and i think then he would have a different opinion - by the way the music is changed so as SAW :)-BUT NOT EDDIE :o


PS. There's no such thing about sound as "warm or cold" it's all about your imagination :rolleyes:


Bertie

[Carlos Mills]

Interesting side note: I recently got a project in for CD mastering at Europadisk that was mixed at the Hit Factory. They provided both a 15ips 1/4" and a DAT made simultaneously off of the board. The tape was simply so much more "right" sounding than the DAT - especially in the 3k area - yet surprisingly all the highs were still there. The DAT seemed to have a little more of lower bottom - but both the client and I picked the analog as the one to master off of. Made me actually think of wanting to get a 1/4" mixdown deck for the first time in ages. Unfortunately I already have way too many other cool toys on my wish list ahead of this!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Hi Steve,

What tools (compressor, softwares, limiters) do you use at Europadisk?

TIA and best regards,

Carlos

[Jesse Skeens]

People still mix down to a DAT? Wonder why considering its 16bit limitations.

Jesse

[mghtx]

Eddie fired his sound engineer. One thing I always HATED about the last few VH albums is that the high-hat is WAY too loud in the mix. This new CD he and Glenn and Matt Bruck did. That new song I mentioned didn't seem as bad.

[TotalSonic]

Hi Steve,

What tools (compressor, softwares, limiters) do you use at Europadisk?

TIA and best regards,

Carlos

Hi Carlos -
Primary processing is with Neumann OE-DUO mastering eq's & Neumann U473 comps - with all the editing and automated processing work for the details done in - you guessed it - SAWStudio. :) Anyway - the Neumann eq's have a really great smooth characteristic sound - for example just a single db at 14k can do wonders for bringing out some nice air for a lot of material - definitely using them has made me appeciate what a good analog eq can do for you - although being able to automate subtle eq changes that happen in a piece sectionally or to even correct a single note that pokes out with the digital stuff is pretty cool too.

There is a Sonic Solutions USP "classic" workstation here also but SAW simply has a ton more editing and processing power than it so the first thing I did when I started working in the studio was install a new SAW-DAW. As far as I know it is the only dedicated mastering studio in NYC to feature SAW. PQ creation is done using either JMS CSG, Sony CD Architect5, or Sonic Solutions, depending on what happens to best for work flow, with occasional mixed mode masters containing multimedia content done in Nero. I've mainly been using CDA5 for PQ's recently, because the track list can so easily be modified if the client decides to change track order or spacings at a later date.

In SAW I am primarily using the JMS Hi-Res EQ & the RML Labs Levelizer, and occasionally Waves RCL and C4. We also have a TC Finalizer+ which I'll use for additional digital limiting or multiband compression. I'm not a fan of the over limited crushed and squashed sound that has unfortunately become a trend with a lot of recent mastering - but if a client requests it (and I can't talk them out of it) we can do it for them. Usually I like to get things to a full and present average level without crushing all of the dynamics out of them.

Monitors are the venerable Infinity RS4.5's - http://www.oellerer.net/infinity_classics/RS_4_5/body_rs_4_5.html
driven by the Neumann SAL 84. Even though it is "vintage" (in the best meaning of that word) this system gives clean bass extension down to 24Hz without the need for a subwoofer and is unbelievably revealing of details in the mids and highs. Getting to listen to these makes getting up and going to work actually a pretty pleasurable prospect.

Ultimately I'd like to get some more analog & digital toys in here but I need to build up the business a bit before making my own additions or getting the owner to agree to some purchases - but I think the essentials to getting someone a great master are definitely already here.

Anyway - we're actually running a special summer rate right now for unattended CD mastering sessions - $780 for a complete package that includes PMCD master and reference discs done to your satisfaction for any length CD. These rates are further discounted if you send in a CD replication order in with it. If anyone is interested in this you can always contact me at steve@totalsonicmedia.com or steve@europadisk.com

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[TotalSonic]

Steve,

Hehe small world. Yes Hec is really cool, Satoshi too. Havent seen those guys in a while. We have another EP coming out that we gave them with the tracks for our last one. Not sure what their release schedule is though. One thing I like about them is that they really care about pressing quality.

Jesse

Jesse -
What names do you release your tracks under? I'd definitely like to check them out.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[TotalSonic]

People still mix down to a DAT? Wonder why considering its 16bit limitations.

Jesse

Surprises me too - although I still do occasionally receive them. I have a feeling that the mix engineer was being lazy in this particular case in that it might have been more convenient for him to send simultaneously out from the board to the 1/4" and the DAT then to also rout out back to a DAW to record 24bit wav files. But beyond that guess - who knows?

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[TotalSonic]

Back to the thing on Eddie... I read an article years ago where he pleaded with the engineer not to have to overdub parts when recording their first album. I got the impression that he is very conservative. He eventually did get into the overdubbing thing... can you imagine, that's so radical! :0 There are a lot of engineers who cling to doing things the same way because of security in practice and not because it sounds better. I worked with 2" and yes it can squish the signal and add distortion, but even rock sounds better live. The less limitations there are on a recording medium, the closer you can get to that. It just requires you to adapt to it.

I have a feeling his reluctance to overdub on his first record was more due to inexperience and lack of comfort in a new situation, more than conservatism. After all - his guitar playing was pretty radical back in 1980!

As far as things sounding better live than recorded - I'll 100% agree with you if we're talking about an orchestra at Carnegie Hall - but I've been to way to many live rock shows where the foh sound was severely hurting to say that live in that case always sounds better than the record.

Anyway - Don't get me wrong - because I love digital and some of my favorite recordings are 100% digital - but every single one of my favorite sounding rock albums was recorded analog. Whether this just happens to be a coincidence of my age - as I really don't relate to the majority of heavy rock that is being released recently as much as I do to the stuff I grew up with - or due to actual sound is debateable - but I still can't imagine "Back In Black" for example actually benefiting from being tracked digitally.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Pedro Itriago]

Monitors are the venerable Infinity RS4.5's - http://www.oellerer.net/infinity_classics/RS_4_5/body_rs_4_5.html
driven by the Neumann SAL 84.
Actually, I like the sound of the white speakers on the left here http://www.oellerer.net/infinity_classics/RS_4_5/RS_4.5_14.jpg a lot better :p

[Jesse Skeens]

Jesse -
What names do you release your tracks under? I'd definitely like to check them out.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Medway

[TotalSonic]

Medway

Jesse -
Your tag sounds really familiar - did you also do some stuff for Made Records - or am I thinking of some one else? In another small world thing t's possible I actually supervised the pressing for your stuff as I was Europadisk's Vinyl Production Manager from 1999-2002.

Do you have a website I can download or stream some stuff from you- got me mighty curious but I don't have time to go to Satellite right now to dig through the stacks.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[TotalSonic]

Actually, I like the sound of the white speakers on the left here http://www.oellerer.net/infinity_classics/RS_4_5/RS_4.5_14.jpg a lot better :p

LOL! Definitly takes you from one extreme to another - doesn't it!

Best regards.
Steve Berson

[Pedro Itriago]

Talk about covering how your mix will sound in a wide variety of situations

[Jesse Skeens]

Steve,

I belive most of the stuff I did with hooj was pressed in the uk using the exchange. i actually considered using europadisc when i released my first white label but went with A&R since I was broke :) This was in 1997 though.

The only us label I've ever really done stuff for was with SAW.

As far as a site I dont have one.

http://www.hoojchoons.co.uk/discog.htm

Has the bulk of my tracks along with the 3 EP's at SAW.

Haven't heard of Made Records.

Jesse

[Burkeville]

My two cents(all it's worth),

Be it warm or cold there is a huge difference in the sound of the two mediums. The MM1100 2" 16 track sure does sound "big". I had a theory that the white noise from tape would cancel out some of the high frequency information and thus sound "warmer" however there are many reasons for the different sounds.

I also understand about the danger of auto tune and over editing. I call this type of work "data entry" and prefer to get my junior engineers to do this for me. I sure wish the auto-tune graph was bigger. I tried changing my screen resolution to make it look bigger but that wouldn't work.