Remote trouble

[keithsplace]

I have an issue with a currently working system.
I have several laptops as remotes. They were working now one does not work.
I had an issue with the wireless and reset everything and I can see the host from the remote and vise versa, but SAC remote I get the TC/IP Host not found. I have checked the HOST to make sure the TC/IP User Rights name and rights is right. Host is XP box where the remote that is working
is an XP laptop, and the one not working is a Windows 7 Acer that was previously working fine, and have used many times as FOH. Not sure what else to check here.
Any ideas to check in this matter?

[TomyN]

Hi,

check the Firewall and make sure that the port used for SAC is enabled (and the port setting is the same on both computers).

Tomy

[gdougherty]

Or disable the firewall entirely on the type of network that you've defined your SAC network as (Home/Work/Public).

[keithsplace]

By the way these are wireless remotes. I did try with wired connection
as well.
Same host name, port and remote name.
No firewall or antivirus installed on either host or remotes.
I even tried changing the remotes machine name to the same as the host that is working and it still fails to connect to host.
Scratchin my head hear as to what happened.

[gdougherty]

You do not want to name multiple machines with the same name. That's a recipe for confusion and problems.

[keithsplace]

Yep knew that, I did kill the one using that name first, Thanks

[gdougherty]

Yep knew that, I did kill the one using that name first, Thanks

What you said gave the impression you named the host and remote the same thing.

[Andy Follett]

Not sure if in your original post you did this or not.

Just had the same problem, scratched head, rebooted, etc. Turns out the name of the host computer on the drop down menu on the remote was wrong.

Rights were correct and all that on the host but I changed the host name on the remote somehow/time and didn't realize it.

[RBIngraham]

Not sure if in your original post you did this or not.

Just had the same problem, scratched head, rebooted, etc. Turns out the name of the host computer on the drop down menu on the remote was wrong.

Rights were correct and all that on the host but I changed the host name on the remote somehow/time and didn't realize it.


This is why I usually just use IP addresses instead of names.

Just a comment...

[keithsplace]

This is why I usually just use IP addresses instead of names.

Just a comment...

Well clearly something has happened here, and it seems to be a Windows 7 on the remotes.
I've done all the Windows 7 tweaks on one laptop just to make sure. But I have had a the same Windows 7 laptop using it as a remote for FOH and a Monitors, and it has worked flawlessly for months.
Now I have even tried a different Windows 7 laptop as remote and it still will not connect with the host. And the Windows XP laptop connects no problem, no matter what host TCP/IP host name I make it, works everytime. Just can't get a Windows 7 laptop to do the same.

[hkmorgan87]

So your win 7 laptops won't connect at all. Have you tried both the host name as well as using an ip address when connecting for all laptops? Have you done any tweaks to the win 7 laptops?

[gdougherty]

Windows firewall is possibly blocking the traffic. That's typically the biggest connection issue with Win 7. Otherwise it should all work fine.

[Dan Fulton]

if you checked all the software end of it. I think it might be a hardware end like the wireless card. Possibly a driver issue or actually the card itself in the laptop.

That would be my guess if nothing else has a problem connecting and now the system won't connect after it did without a problem for awhile

[RandyHyde]

I have an issue with a currently working system.
I have several laptops as remotes. They were working now one does not work.
I had an issue with the wireless and reset everything and I can see the host from the remote and vise versa, but SAC remote I get the TC/IP Host not found. I have checked the HOST to make sure the TC/IP User Rights name and rights is right. Host is XP box where the remote that is working
is an XP laptop, and the one not working is a Windows 7 Acer that was previously working fine, and have used many times as FOH. Not sure what else to check here.
Any ideas to check in this matter?

Try reseting the router. This has fixed problems like this for me in the past.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde

[keithsplace]

So your win 7 laptops won't connect at all. Have you tried both the host name as well as using an ip address when connecting for all laptops? Have you done any tweaks to the win 7 laptops?

No I have not tried IP addresses, I use host/remote names
Yes I did Tweak the one Win7 laptop that was once connecting, not the new one.
Yes checked everything I can think of.

Both Windows 7 laptops that I have tried now do not work, one brand new one and one old one that was working fine.
Only the Windows XP laptop connects fine.
I'm thinking it was a Win7 update that broke it but not sure.
I reloaded Win7 on one first, (wanted to load it on a SSD drive anyway) now I have to wait for the right drivers disk from Acer.. First time I've never been able to get one up and running downloading drivers from their site).
I have tried,
Wired and wireless
SAC user rights names
network can see all machines and shares so they are connecting, just not SAC.
I think I'll try restoring the new one back before updates, (Updated it right out of the box) reinstall SAC remote and see what happens.

Thanks everyone for suggestions

[dbarrow]

Could your SAC permissions have gotten reset somehow? If everything else works, but SAC, that seems like a reasonable explanation. Did the names of the remotes change?

[jim_r]

If memory serves me right, SAC listens on a TCP port -- usually TCP port 12 if your settings are default.

One "trick" for testing TCP connectivity is to use a telnet client. I do this often for testing email, web, rtsp, and a few other types of TCP servers when I think the client software might be to blame.

You have to have telnet installed (Win 7 omits it by default but TELNET CLIENT is a feature you can add)

in my example I'll define my SAC server as

192.168.10.3
hostname: FOH


First test from a CMD prompt:
telnet 192.168.10.3 12
If telnet connects, the DOS prompt clears. The screen may just go black with a blinking cursor. You might see SAC server saying something. But the point being is that the DOS prompt clears. To quit TELNET session

press Control-]
type quit and press enter at the telnet> prompt


If that works, do it again but replace the 192.168.10.3 with the exact name -- foh in my example. If the telnet connection didn't work, then it's a name resolution issue. If it does work, then it could be something with SACRemote or higher up in the network stack.

I hope that's helpful.

Caveat: If SAC remote works over UDP or another protocol then this technique doesn't apply

[jim_r]

Could your SAC permissions have gotten reset somehow? If everything else works, but SAC, that seems like a reasonable explanation. Did the names of the remotes change?

I believe if it were a Perms issue, you'd get connectivity to SAC but view only of the mixing consoles. -Jim

[hkmorgan87]

I just finished setting up a new host with win 7. While tweaking windows 7, it had downloaded and installed new updates. I found out my win xp remote could no longer connect to my win 7 host. My remote connected fine before the updates. Adding exception to the firewall did not help. I fixed the problem by disabling "windows firewall" in the system services manager.

[beejky]

The problem with windows 7 is a DNS issue. He is having a problem with his Windows 7 machine resolving the SAC host because there is no DNS or WINS server on his network.
If he tried to ping SAChost on his network he would get HOST NOT FOUND errors.
So the computer is having a problem converting the name “SACHOST” to a number 192.168.1.2 The way around this is simple.

Windows 7 as well as XP, 95, 98, Linux, and Unix use a file called Hosts.. In MS Windows it is located in the C:\Windows\system32\drivers\etc folder . To do primary DNS resolution, if the name if not found in this Hosts. file it will try to connect to an external DNS server such as the one you use that your ISP provides you for name resolution when you surf the internet.

Notice I said “Hosts.” and not “Hosts.txt” this is important!!

When the computer requests TCP/IP connection to a name as in “www.cnn.com” it uses Domain Name Services to resolve the Name CNN.COM to an IP address of 157.166.226.26. The normal way of resolution the computer uses is to first check the local file Hosts. for an entry and then, a remote DNS server which is determined in your network setup.

On a Win 7 you will have to turn off UAC or you may not be able to save the file in the correct place even if you have Administrator user rights.

Once you open the Hosts. file in notepad this if what you will see:

# Copyright (c) 1993-1999 Microsoft Corp.
#
# This is a sample HOSTS file used by Microsoft TCP/IP for Windows.
#
# This file contains the mappings of IP addresses to host names. Each
# entry should be kept on an individual line. The IP address should
# be placed in the first column followed by the corresponding host name.
# The IP address and the host name should be separated by at least one
# space.
#
# Additionally, comments (such as these) may be inserted on individual
# lines or following the machine name denoted by a '#' symbol.
#
# For example:
#
# 102.54.94.97 rhino.acme.com # source server
# 38.25.63.10 x.acme.com # x client host

So to add a local machine to your Hosts. file with the IP address of 192.168.1.2 you would add a line:

192.168.1.2 SAChost
The clear space between the number and the name are 2 tabs and not spaces. The Line is ended with a carriage return.

Save the file making sure the name is “Hosts.”

You will either want to give your SAC host a static IP address in the network adapter setup or reserve the IP address in the DHCP server of your wireless router so it always gets the same IP address.

Now in Win 7 if he opens a cmd prompt and types ping SAChost he will get a reply from 192.168.1.2 because local resolution says SAChost is 192.168.1.2 and pings the correct machine.

Now he can connect to SAChost and everything is groovy!

No I have not tried IP addresses, I use host/remote names
Yes I did Tweak the one Win7 laptop that was once connecting, not the new one.
Yes checked everything I can think of.

Both Windows 7 laptops that I have tried now do not work, one brand new one and one old one that was working fine.
Only the Windows XP laptop connects fine.
I'm thinking it was a Win7 update that broke it but not sure.
I reloaded Win7 on one first, (wanted to load it on a SSD drive anyway) now I have to wait for the right drivers disk from Acer.. First time I've never been able to get one up and running downloading drivers from their site).
I have tried,
Wired and wireless
SAC user rights names
network can see all machines and shares so they are connecting, just not SAC.
I think I'll try restoring the new one back before updates, (Updated it right out of the box) reinstall SAC remote and see what happens.

Thanks everyone for suggestions

[dbarrow]

The problem with windows 7 is a DNS issue. He is having a problem with his Windows 7 machine resolving the SAC host because there is no DNS or WINS server on his network.
If he tried to ping SAChost on his network he would get HOST NOT FOUND errors.
So the computer is having a problem converting the name “SACHOST” to a number 192.168.1.2 The way around this is simple.

Windows 7 as well as XP, 95, 98, Linux, and Unix use a file called Hosts.. In MS Windows it is located in the C:\Windows\system32\drivers\etc folder . To do primary DNS resolution, if the name if not found in this Hosts. file it will try to connect to an external DNS server such as the one you use that your ISP provides you for name resolution when you surf the internet. Also, I have "Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP" enabled on all computers, so the names will be transmitted and recognized vs. just the IP addresses.



Notice I said “Hosts.” and not “Hosts.txt” this is important!!

When the computer requests TCP/IP connection to a name as in “www.cnn.com” (http://www.cnn.com%E2%80%9D) it uses Domain Name Services to resolve the Name CNN.COM to an IP address of 157.166.226.26. The normal way of resolution the computer uses is to first check the local file Hosts. for an entry and then, a remote DNS server which is determined in your network setup.

On a Win 7 you will have to turn off UAC or you may not be able to save the file in the correct place even if you have Administrator user rights.

Once you open the Hosts. file in notepad this if what you will see:

# Copyright (c) 1993-1999 Microsoft Corp.
#
# This is a sample HOSTS file used by Microsoft TCP/IP for Windows.
#
# This file contains the mappings of IP addresses to host names. Each
# entry should be kept on an individual line. The IP address should
# be placed in the first column followed by the corresponding host name.
# The IP address and the host name should be separated by at least one
# space.
#
# Additionally, comments (such as these) may be inserted on individual
# lines or following the machine name denoted by a '#' symbol.
#
# For example:
#
# 102.54.94.97 rhino.acme.com # source server
# 38.25.63.10 x.acme.com # x client host

So to add a local machine to your Hosts. file with the IP address of 192.168.1.2 you would add a line:

192.168.1.2 SAChost
The clear space between the number and the name are 2 tabs and not spaces. The Line is ended with a carriage return.

Save the file making sure the name is “Hosts.”

You will either want to give your SAC host a static IP address in the network adapter setup or reserve the IP address in the DHCP server of your wireless router so it always gets the same IP address.

Now in Win 7 if he opens a cmd prompt and types ping SAChost he will get a reply from 192.168.1.2 because local resolution says SAChost is 192.168.1.2 and pings the correct machine.

Now he can connect to SAChost and everything is groovy!

Wow, I never thought of that. I have DNS running on my router. I guess if you just had a hub (or a router with DNS turned off) you could just use the HOSTS file on each computer, as you have described and manually assign IP addresses on each computer. That seems simple enough. For me, it was easier just to enable DNS on the router.

[RBIngraham]

Wow, I never thought of that. I have DNS running on my router. I guess if you just had a hub (or a router with DNS turned off) you could just use the HOSTS file on each computer, as you have described and manually assign IP addresses on each computer. That seems simple enough. For me, it was easier just to enable DNS on the router.


I'm starting to wonder if this might be some of the reason I've never been able to get the creation of new scenes from a SAC Remote to work. I almost never use a router on my SAC set up. Just a switch and I hard assign all IPs.

Hmmm... maybe worth a shot..

[dbarrow]

I'm starting to wonder if this might be some of the reason I've never been able to get the creation of new scenes from a SAC Remote to work. I almost never use a router on my SAC set up. Just a switch and I hard assign all IPs.

Hmmm... maybe worth a shot..Do you have "Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP" enabled in the networking dialogs? Without that there may be no way for the different computers to know each other's "names" versus their IP addresses. The HOSTS file may be necessary as well (as mentioned earlier) for name resolution.

I may experiment with having my SAC host set to manual IP address, but have the WiFi router give out addresses to every other computer that joins the SAC network. Sometimes I Use the WiFi router at home, when I have my SAC rack setup there and I already have a linux router that gives out addresses to each specific computer on my home network, based on MAC addresses. Having the SAC host have a fixed IP address would at least allow me to connect to the WiFi router and turn the DHCP server on (for gig locations) and off (for home). I could set the SAC host to 192.168.0.100 and have the WiFi Router's DHCP give out addresses from 192.168.0.101 and up. Before, I would get in a "catch 22" scenario when trying to switch the WiFi router's DHCP server on and off, because I couldn't connect to it without a valid IP address, which it can't give me with the DHCP turned off. If I turn it on while it is connected to my home network, it would conflict with the DHCP server running on the home network linux router.

[dbarrow]

Also, after having some WiFi dropouts at a few shows, I bought the Netgear XAB5001 Powerline adapters for my FOH nootebook (which also has 802.11 a/b/g/n), upgraded my walk=around netbook to a dual-band 802.11 a/b/g/n card and bought a Netgear WNDR4500 dual-band router, which is the best router I have ever used. There is almost never anything on the 5ghz band (according to inSSIDer WiFi spectrum analyzer). I also carry a 100' CAT5 cable on a spool for situations where nothing else works.

The Powerline adapters seem to work better than WiFi at every place I have been so far, so I usually connect them first for the FOH notebook. I built a sort of "birdhouse" shelf for the router that clamps on to a lighting truss or some other high tube of any sort. It holds the router and the power supply for it and connects with just a power cord and a CAT5 cable.

[RBIngraham]

Do you have "Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP" enabled in the networking dialogs? Without that there may be no way for the different computers to know each other's "names" versus their IP addresses. The HOSTS file may be necessary as well (as mentioned earlier) for name resolution.



No I don't have that turned on. If memory serves, but I will check.

Having said that, the machines find each other just fine. I am not using Wi-Fi, I just run a cable. :p

Anyway, the machines write files back and forth to each other perfectly fine and can easily see each other under Window's Network. SAC Remote can connect with no problems. My issue has always been writing a scene or saving the SAC session file from the SAC Remote. I seem to remember being able to do it some years ago now when I first got SAC, but it has not worked at all for quite some time not matter doing all the usual "fixes" that Bob suggests like sharing the entire drives, and turning off the firewalls, etc... None of that seems to work. I also usually don't have enough time to sit and tinker in the room with it all set up to really figure it out either.

[Brent Evans]

No I don't have that turned on. If memory serves, but I will check.


Windows likes to use names, not IPs, when determining network paths. If it doesn't know the name, it probably won't work right. NetBIOS fixes that, as it allows name resolution.

[SLJ Audio]

Hi,

I have had issues with sharing with XP and Win 7 also, but in an unrelated case.

I found that Win 7 works when the group is set to "work" rather than "Home".

Sharing between Win 7 to XP works better.

just ¢.02 worth
Steve J

[RBIngraham]

Windows likes to use names, not IPs, when determining network paths. If it doesn't know the name, it probably won't work right. NetBIOS fixes that, as it allows name resolution.

I'll give it a shot. It's just weird that everything else works fine though. I can share files all day long, use SAC Remote... it's only when SAC Remote needs to make something happen with a file on the host that things go south.

[dbarrow]

I'll give it a shot. It's just weird that everything else works fine though. I can share files all day long, use SAC Remote... it's only when SAC Remote needs to make something happen with a file on the host that things go south.It seems like some kind of permissions conflict between Windows 7 and SAC. I'm not sure what changes when you switch between "home" and "work" in the network setup, but I have all my Windows 7 computers set to "work" and I have never had a problem. Windows 7 may put some kind of additional security permission on files with the network type set to "home" or "public" that SAC doesn't even see, so it just doesn't work. The nuances of this difference may have changed with the updates.

[RBIngraham]

It seems like some kind of permissions conflict between Windows 7 and SAC. I'm not sure what changes when you switch between "home" and "work" in the network setup, but I have all my Windows 7 computers set to "work" and I have never had a problem. Windows 7 may put some kind of additional security permission on files with the network type set to "home" or "public" that SAC doesn't even see, so it just doesn't work. The nuances of this difference may have changed with the updates.

Both of my machines I'm talking about here are Win XP. The OP on this thread was the one with the issue between 7 and XP.

[keithsplace]

Thanks to beejky for the following fix to the SAC Remote not connecting the the SAC on a WIndows 7
Originally Posted by beejky http://www.sawstudiouser.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.sawstudiouser.com/forums/showthread.php?p=180243#post180243)
The problem with windows 7 is a DNS issue. He is having a problem with his Windows 7 machine resolving the SAC host because there is no DNS or WINS server on his network.
If he tried to ping SAChost on his network he would get HOST NOT FOUND errors.
So the computer is having a problem converting the name “SACHOST” to a number 192.168.1.2 The way around this is simple.

Windows 7 as well as XP, 95, 98, Linux, and Unix use a file called Hosts.. In MS Windows it is located in the C:\Windows\system32\drivers\etc folder . To do primary DNS resolution, if the name if not found in this Hosts. file it will try to connect to an external DNS server such as the one you use that your ISP provides you for name resolution when you surf the internet. Also, I have "Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP" enabled on all computers, so the names will be transmitted and recognized vs. just the IP addresses.



Notice I said “Hosts.” and not “Hosts.txt” this is important!!

When the computer requests TCP/IP connection to a name as in “www.cnn.com” (http://www.cnn.com%e2%80%9d/) it uses Domain Name Services to resolve the Name CNN.COM to an IP address of 157.166.226.26. The normal way of resolution the computer uses is to first check the local file Hosts. for an entry and then, a remote DNS server which is determined in your network setup.

On a Win 7 you will have to turn off UAC or you may not be able to save the file in the correct place even if you have Administrator user rights.

Once you open the Hosts. file in notepad this if what you will see:

# Copyright (c) 1993-1999 Microsoft Corp.
#
# This is a sample HOSTS file used by Microsoft TCP/IP for Windows.
#
# This file contains the mappings of IP addresses to host names. Each
# entry should be kept on an individual line. The IP address should
# be placed in the first column followed by the corresponding host name.
# The IP address and the host name should be separated by at least one
# space.
#
# Additionally, comments (such as these) may be inserted on individual
# lines or following the machine name denoted by a '#' symbol.
#
# For example:
#
# 102.54.94.97 rhino.acme.com # source server
# 38.25.63.10 x.acme.com # x client host

So to add a local machine to your Hosts. file with the IP address of 192.168.1.2 you would add a line:

192.168.1.2 SAChost
The clear space between the number and the name are 2 tabs and not spaces. The Line is ended with a carriage return.

Save the file making sure the name is “Hosts.”

You will either want to give your SAC host a static IP address in the network adapter setup or reserve the IP address in the DHCP server of your wireless router so it always gets the same IP address.

Now in Win 7 if he opens a cmd prompt and types ping SAChost he will get a reply from 192.168.1.2 because local resolution says SAChost is 192.168.1.2 and pings the correct machine.

Now he can connect to SAChost and everything is groovy!
.

[garth.bowman]

My win 7 connects but after about an hour so do will time out or disconnect. Usually the only way to reset is to turn router off and back on.
Could this be caused by this issue or a router going out?

[JLepore]

I'm starting to wonder if this might be some of the reason I've never been able to get the creation of new scenes from a SAC Remote to work. I almost never use a router on my SAC set up. Just a switch and I hard assign all IPs.

Hmmm... maybe worth a shot..

To connect to the file system, he generates a UNC path using the machine names to connect, so you MUST have something resolving names or you will not be able to do anything through the file systems.

[beejky]

Is this occurring the wireless or wired? If it is wired I would question the router.


My win 7 connects but after about an hour so do will time out or disconnect. Usually the only way to reset is to turn router off and back on.
Could this be caused by this issue or a router going out?

[beejky]

From Microsoft

"Host name resolution generally uses the following sequence:



The client checks to see if the name queried is its own.
The client then searches a local Hosts file, a list of IP address and names stored on the local computer.

NOTE: The Hosts file location depends on the operating system:
Windows NT, 2000, XP, and 7 ***37;Systemroot%\System32\Drivers\Etc
Windows 95 <drive>\<Windows folder>
Windows for Workgroups <drive>\<Windows folder>
Windows 3.1 <drive>\<Windows folder>
MS-Client 3.0 <Boot volume>\
Net Lan Manager 2.2c Client <Boot volume>\Net


Where %Systemroot% is the folder in which Windows NT is installed, <drive> is the drive on which the OS is installed, and <boot volume> refers to a boot floppy disk or drive C.

A sample hosts file, Hosts.sam, is installed with the TCP/IP protocol showing the proper format.
Domain Name System (DNS) servers are queried.
If the name is still not resolved, NetBIOS name resolution sequence is used as a backup. This order can be changed by configuring the NetBIOS node type of the client."

You will see the Hosts file is the first step after the machine checks it's own name. This will make resolution faster than waiting for polling of netbios. Another issue with Netbios is having all the computers on the same workgroup!

If the workgroup name on the remotes do not match the SAC Host It will not resolve the name.





Both of my machines I'm talking about here are Win XP. The OP on this thread was the one with the issue between 7 and XP.

[RBIngraham]

To connect to the file system, he generates a UNC path using the machine names to connect, so you MUST have something resolving names or you will not be able to do anything through the file systems.

Joe,

Thanks for the help and info. I will have to look into this and hopefully I'll finally be able to write new scenes from a remote. Or I guess I could just run a router rather than a simple switch.

[garth.bowman]

Is this occurring the wireless or wired? If it is wired I would question the router.

I am running this wireless. I would like to add another remote computer but a little nervous with current issue of the Win 7 computer disconnecting.
I would like to try setting it up using a static IP's but will need to find someone that knows something about it. Unless someone can give me a good step by step of how to do it. That might solve my issues.