New System build - doable?

[gvieth]

I have been concerned about buying a new system for my church just because I want to make real sure it works well together.

I am looking at:
Intel i3-2120 processor
(hoping to use on board video, was told motherboard won't accept the newer fat video cards with the RAYDATS)
Intel motherboard
4 gig ram
SSD drive for OS
500 gig HD for recording
XP PRO
2 - RAYDAT cards
Focusrite Oktopre MKII pre's
rack mount case

Does anyone have experience with any of these components?
I am wanting to run SAC and SAW.
If it is better to go with Windows 7 etc. I will, just looked like the posts recommend this set up.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Gary

[RandyHyde]

I have been concerned about buying a new system for my church just because I want to make real sure it works well together.

I am looking at:
Intel i3-2120 processor
(hoping to use on board video, was told motherboard won't accept the newer fat video cards with the RAYDATS)

I use an i3 with on-board video for my "B" rig. Works fine.



Intel motherboard
4 gig ram
SSD drive for OS
500 gig HD for recording

Use a cartridge-based drive. Swap drives in and out as needed. Don't even have a drive in place for most non-recording gigs.



XP PRO

Has a 3GB RAM limit, just so you're aware. I suspect 2GB would be fine if you're only running SAC.



2 - RAYDAT cards
Focusrite Oktopre MKII pre's

How many channels?
I'd guess that up to 48 channels you should be okay with an i3.
Depends, of course, on the effects you add.



rack mount case

Does anyone have experience with any of these components?
I am wanting to run SAC and SAW.
If it is better to go with Windows 7 etc. I will, just looked like the posts recommend this set up.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Gary
My current "B" rig is 24 channels. Typically runs between 15%-25% load.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde

[brettbrandon]

64 bit XP has a memory limit of 128 gb.

[airickess]

If it is better to go with Windows 7 etc. I will, just looked like the posts recommend this set up.I've been running Win 7 Pro 64-bit on my rig since August without a single problem. I don't see why you shouldn't use it.

[Michael Madio]

Re WinXP on SSD's, read up about it as it's generally not SSD friendly out of the box.

Re 32-bit vs 64-bit OS, you should consider any VST plug-ins you might run as they might need to be bridged and this adds latency. 64-bit does give you access to more memory if you need it for other functions.

I have a recently built system with the same processor but with MOTU hardware and I can mix + record 48 channels no problem with a minimalist WinXP 32-bit OS.

[Alex]

Hello Gary

We build SAC/SAW systems on every platform on the market. You really need to figure out where you are going with it in the future and build for that. I would suggest you spend the extra money and go with the fastest cpu and a motherboard combo you can afford i7 2700 2nd gen or 3rd gen ours clock at 4300mhz, your cost will be in those 2 parts. Everything else for would remain the same for i3 ,i5 or AMD. We also liquid cool and use fan and temp control, with the final outcome of a rock stable system. Any Church moving to this system will have untold benifits from this investment.

Alex

http://servantdigital.com/index.php?page=107

[gdougherty]

If you're doing SSD, I'd suggest Win7 for optimal results over time. However, SAC/SAW has some odd load issues if you read around. You may be okay.

Second Randy's suggestion to put everything in removable trays, even your SSD. Make a backup image and have a spare just in case. You could also run in RAID 1 for better fault tolerance.

The i3 2120 should be fine for a 64 channel rig. The i3 is every bit as fast as the Core2Duo's and at 3.3GHz should match or outperform the C2D E8600. The E8500 and E8600 are older recommended parts for high channel count rigs. If you want max performance at high channel counts, consider stepping up to an i5 with the turbo boost capability. SAC running primarily on one core is a prime candidate for the benefits of turbo boost.

For an install I'm not a fan of the Octopre MK2's. The 2 front, 6 back preamp design is a no-go for me. If you go MK2 Dynamics, make sure you do something so the DA button can't accidentally be toggled by little fingers. Or even by clumsy fingers. You don't want your outputs to unexpectedly be replaced by what's coming in on the corresponding input channels.

Not mentioned, but for an install, in hindsight, I wouldn't do much system processing in SAC, except for feedback notching in monitors and some preferential tone shaping on FOH. That gives you the flexibility to recall any session without worrying about how the system processing should have changed if you decide to change it down the road.

[gdougherty]

Hello Gary

We build SAC/SAW systems on every platform on the market. You really need to figure out where you are going with it in the future and build for that. I would suggest you spend the extra money and go with the fastest cpu and a motherboard combo you can afford i7 2700 2nd gen or 3rd gen ours clock at 4300mhz, your cost will be in those 2 parts. Everything else for would remain the same for i3 ,i5 or AMD. We also liquid cool and use fan and temp control, with the final outcome of a rock stable system. Any Church moving to this system will have untold benifits from this investment.

Alex

http://servantdigital.com/index.php?page=107


I can't think of a good reason to go with an i7 over an i5. Both will be overkill at 4 cores for SAC. Both feature turbo boost and at most it gets 3.9GHz vs 3.8GHz. Larger Cache sizes don't seem to impact performance as that's the main difference between the Pentium E7000's and the C2Duo E8000's and performance is pretty even between the two. The onboard memory controller is equally as fast between the two parts as well. Hyperthreading is a no-no anyway and a useless feature on the i7 for a SAC rig.
IMO, there's a definite reason to step up to an i5 but little to no reason to spring for an i7.

[Alex]

Yes I like SSD drives and they work great, along with Win7 Pro 32bit. As for Pre's we use the ADA8000 and OctoPre MkII Dynamic. I have never had any failures with either one. In all our live and studio testing we have found no differance in sound in or out. Its all up to budget, I would strongly suggest staying away from the i3 for channel counts above 32 been there done that , i5 beyond that and like I suggested i7 for max system performance. We have been running the Asus z68 MB with VGA, DVI and HDMI out all at the same time with no issues. We try not to add Video cards to the system anymore its just another way to create a conflict.

Dont over complicate your build keep it simple and straight forward and very user repairable.

Alex

[mycorn]

hmmmmm...

granted it is only a 24ch build but i
guess i better go tell my "new"
3G 32bit XPpro i3[2120] SSD rig
that it cant do what it's been doing


i do record to an internal half T spinner....


fwiw

[Michael Madio]

Question then ... assuming all 32-bit, any preference of WinXP vs Win7 and why?

[PCC]

why an SSD?
i mean, i understand the normal SSD feature over HDD's (faster, shock independant), but with tradeoffs (expense, capacity, longevity).
what i'm curious about is that this SAC system is supposedly rock solid and system setups are ususally minimized, so the boot time shouldn't be too long and shouldn't be necessary too often. it's also reported that CPU loading is generally low.
so, why the extra expense?

[JeremyJo]

I did SSD almost solely for faster boot time and to discourage recording to the OS drive in SAC. Our host boots from cold to ready to mix in under 30 seconds now. Waiting for a mixer to boot is not my favorite thing to do. If SAC is set up as a single purpose machine then t makes sense to me to optimize every part of it for that purpose. The SSD was just one more part of the optimization.

Plus no moving parts, minimal writing to disk, lower heat and lower current draw are nice too.

JJ

[905shmick]

why an SSD?
i mean, i understand the normal SSD feature over HDD's (faster, shock independant), but with tradeoffs (expense, capacity, longevity).
what i'm curious about is that this SAC system is supposedly rock solid and system setups are ususally minimized, so the boot time shouldn't be too long and shouldn't be necessary too often. it's also reported that CPU loading is generally low.
so, why the extra expense?

The fact that there are no moving parts with an SSD is a huge plus from a reliability and longevity point of view. The size of SSD required as a boot drive is not expensive at all. The fact that it's considerably faster than a traditional drive is a bonus in this case.

Windows XP lacks TRIM support for SSD but in this case it's only being used as a boot drive, that shouldn't matter too much. Some extra tweaking in XP can reduce unnecessary writing to the drive such as turning off the page/swap file, turning off drive indexing and things like that. You'll find more tips via some basic google searching.

[dasbin]

You are (presumably) moving a SAC system around a fair bit. SSD's are almost impervious to mechanical shock, whilst HDD's are very susceptible.

If you want a stable system (duh) the places to spend good money are motherboard and PSU. Too many people cheap out here, especially on the PSU.

Our system has a Gigabyte -UD7 motherboard and a Corsair -AX PSU. I've used them before and highly doubt we will ever have a problem with either of them for the life of the system.

[airickess]

Also purchase a shock-absorbing case. I've a Gator G-Shock-4L (http://www.gatorcases.com/p/29110-1285/g-shock-4l) case that has my 3u rackmount SAC computer and an Art TubeOpto 8. I purchased it for under $200. Worth every penny for taking care of this gear.
An added bonus of this case is that because of the case design the airflow through the case is excellent.

[RandyHyde]

For an install I'm not a fan of the Octopre MK2's. The 2 front, 6 back preamp design is a no-go for me.

Not to mention zero output D/A channels.
And, because there are no output channels, you have to feed it a word clock signal (can't grab it off the ADAT buss as that's only present for output channels). It was PITA getting my single OPre MKII working in my "B" rig. Though I actually wanted two XLRs in the front for this application (talkback mic), it wasn't worth saving $100 go use the OPre MkII rather than OPre MkII Dynamic.




If you go MK2 Dynamics, make sure you do something so the DA button can't accidentally be toggled by little fingers. Or even by clumsy fingers. You don't want your outputs to unexpectedly be replaced by what's coming in on the corresponding input channels.

Been there, done that.
But now that I've made that mistake once, it never happens again :)

Cheers,
Randy Hyde