wish list update - gee, what's even left??

[TotalSonic]

Thought I'd start a thread here on what people would like to see in the upcoming versions of SAWStudio. Really for me the vast majority of all my desires have been already taken care of in the past year but the following things would definitely be very welcomed!

* automation of loading VSP & DXP presets - This for me is my #1 desire for a new feature at this point. Since VST and DX automation is such a bear to program it seems that the ability to have the loading of SAW's own VSP or DXP preset files as an automateable item in the multitrack timeline would streamline a huge amount of end users needs for effects automation. Currently you can still automate a DX or VST effects setting change by just loading multiple instances of the plugin to one track and bypassing them off and on - but this sometimes is not that elegant to actually work with. I think VSP & DXP automated loading would open a ton of possibilties without having to get as deeply involved with all the MS & Steinberg cludgy coding.

* I'm pretty sure you mentioned this was planned for an update already - but ability to build mix to seperate soundfiles for each track without having to have additional output devices loaded would be really fantastic.

* ability to load mono files to either L or R of a stereo track. Often I receive mono L & R tracks from PT workstations but wish to process them as stereo and not dual mono. While Rail's freeware "Interleaver" does a great job of batch conversions for this the ability to have these things changeable on the fly and without having to write more soundfiles is very appealing in terms of getting the quickest possible work flow. I think a couple commands in the file menu that would in effect "open mono sound file and add to left channel of multitrack" and "open mono sound file and add to right channel of multitrack" would take care of this need very well.

* Layers View - this had been mentioned before - but I think it would be awesome to have an additional view where you could expand a single track to display all of its layers in a similar way as the multitrack view allowing for quick visual referencing of all regions on all layers (and hopefully also use multitrack commands to copy/move the regions between each layer) . I think this would come in mighty handy for things like editing complex vocal comps quite a bit quicker.

* optional remapping of ctrl-< to ctrl-z and ctrl-> to ctrl-shift-z. Basically the ctrl-< gesture is awkward to me in that if I keep my right hand on my mouse I have to move my left hand to what is an awkward position for myself on the keyboard - whereas ctrl-z is a pretty easy gesture to make. I think the ctrl-< is also a very unintuitive key combo for new users as the vast vast majority of apps out there already use ctrl-z for undo. I think making this a menu option would allow users to either continue with the current way or set it up so that the undo command is where they kind of expect it to be.

* key commands for Open Soundfile and Open Soundfile and add to MT. With the Library view these aren't that important - still for some people (including myself) this would help to streamline workflow. I should note that I've set up this item and the one above using Perfect Keyboard Lite - but it'd be nicer to not have to have an app running in the background in order to effect these basic requests.

* Cue Sheet Import - the idea is to be able to open a .cue file and have it automatically place all the linked soundfiles at their proper timing points in the multitrack - in which would allow for a nice way to re-edit already existing cue images. This would be definitely useful for me in my mastering work - admittedly not as important to others - but I think it would help out all the users of the JMS CSG.

* Export to AIFF. I know there are a number of freeware apps that can convert wav to aiff (and have 2 of them on my box) but since we can do direct import of aiff without having to write new files I'd figure it'd be worth asking for the ability to write Built Mix files as aif as for those of us who often have to create files for Mac workstations this would save a little time and space.

* For MWS: For my own way of working both a Score and Loop/Pattern views are a must have in any midi sequencer so if these were added to MWS I would definitely hop on board with a lot of enthusiam. I think there are a lot of others working in film scoring or with loop oriented musics such as hip-hop or electronica who would agree.

* ReWire - yup - I know I'm beating a dead horse here and I'm aware that:
1) Propellarheads have done everything they could to make this a totally clumsy interface
2) that integrating it totally drags SAW's performance down -
but I would eventually love to still have it as a plugin option - and judging by requests I think others would still too. Based on recent remarks I know I'll probably never see this implemented - but figured it doesn't hurt to ask once again.

Now - if only I could find a midi controllable espresso machine I'd be able to have SAW handle making sure there was a nice steaming cup of java ready for me each morning too! :)

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[AudioAstronomer]

Cue sheet import would absolutely, positively ROCK. Wow. yes.

and layers view too :)

[MMP]

A few things I would like:

1. Realtime counter that could be triggered during record for timing VO takes. I think this made the master list already.

2. A way to stretch region automation at the same time that I am stretching region boundries...essentially tying a region boundry move to a marked automation boundry move equal to the region size.

3. Keyboard shortcut to turn video overlay on and off.

4. Automatic library view refresh after save mixfile and other non-playback data writing. I often use library views to quickly compare file volumes and EQ, often set to the directory I am writing mixes to.

5. When doing sound design, I often use the varispeed to marked end command. I would love a function that would do this across multiple regions.

6. Lock automation to region edge. Many times my only automation moves are at the beginning and ends of regions. I would love to be able to lock these setting so that if I alt drag, they stay at the beginning or end.

7. I use the marked region automation mode a lot. (the one where if you have a marked area, new automation is written to the beginning of the mark, and automation equal to the previous automation is written to the end of the mark). I would love this to work on plugins by being carried through to the API, for settings and plugin bypass buttons.

8. I would like the windows clipboard function to work in SawStudio for audio, as my sound effects databasing program could use it, and also VocAlign.

9. A command on the Control track menu that would convert Cue marks to "K" keep region commands. I use cue marks for numbering VO takes, and it would be nice to create seperate regions for each take automatically.

I only mention all of this seeming SS 4.0 is looming in the future.
Thanks for listening Bob. I know you will take just the best of our ideas and put them in your product.

Regards,

MM

[Jay Q]

2. A way to stretch region automation at the same time that I am stretching region boundries...essentially tying a region boundry move to a marked automation boundry move equal to the region size.

6. Lock automation to region edge. Many times my only automation moves are at the beginning and ends of regions. I would love to be able to lock these setting so that if I alt drag, they stay at the beginning or end. Either/both would be great.

Jay

[Carl G.]

I echo MM:
1. Realtime counter
5. When doing sound design, I often use the varispeed to marked end command. I would love a function that would do this across multiple regions.
6. Lock automation to region edge. *option only
7. marked region automation....to work on plugins for settings and plugin bypass buttons.
9. A command on the Control track menu that would convert Cue marks to "K" keep region commands. (clever!)

However, I would vote against Steve's suggestion of Cntr Z for undo. I like the more practical 'lesser than/greater than current level'. Why MS chose Cntrl Z baffles me.

Gee... just when Yura thought that guys were finished with the suggestions... along comes this thread for Bob! They do such great work already!!
But that is so awesome that they listen to suggestions. My gratitude.

[TotalSonic]

However, I would vote against Steve's suggestion of Cntr Z for undo. I like the more practical 'lesser than/greater than current level'. Why MS chose Cntrl Z baffles me.


Hi Carl -
If you noticed in my first word in front of this suggestion was "optional"!! Similar to the menu option to either have mouse wheel scroll up and down the multitrack hot track or zoom in and out, the best solution to me would have the end user be able to choose which one they would like to use.

Anyway - a lot of people (including myself) have a 15+ year history of just automatically going for ctrl-z for undo since nearly every app adopted the MS (& Apple too!) "standard". Even though I have used SAW for 11 years now I still find I sometimes find myself reaching for the wrong key combo. I think the vast majority of brand new users do too.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Jesse Skeens]

Speaking of undos is it normal that undos in SAW seem to take a while? I know its essentialy loading up the song again right? Would be nice for smaller edits to not have to wait, if anything though it makes me more careful now when I do edits :)

[Bob L]

The undos, even on complex sessions, should be pretty much instantaneous. If yours take a long time, then something may be up with your disk access or you are using certain plugins that take a while to initialize.

Bob L

[Jesse Skeens]

The undos, even on complex sessions, should be pretty much instantaneous. If yours take a long time, then something may be up with your disk access or you are using certain plugins that take a while to initialize.

Bob L


It's probably some of the 3rd party plugins.

[conleec]

"However, I would vote against Steve's suggestion of Cntr Z for undo. I like the more practical 'lesser than/greater than current level'. Why MS chose Cntrl Z baffles me..."

Baffles me, too. But, as was already mentioned, EVERYBODY knows that if they hit CTRL-Z it will undo. Plus you can easily do it with your left hand, while leaving the right hand on the mouse. If you're a southpaw, well, tough luck :p

I'm all about the option of using CTRL-Z for undo.

I also like the idea of locking automations to region edges (if desired) so if the edges are dragged, the automation follows.

I'm still so new, I don't feel qualified to make feature requests, but if anything comes to me, I'll speak up, I guess. I'll be working this coming week for the first time exclusively on SAW doing some sound work for a very small feature I just locked picture on tonight. I'm very excited to finally be doing some "real" audio work, instead of just poking around in the software.

[Dingo]

I'd like a feature that would make people play/sing in time/tune. Could this be ready for the next update Bob?

[MMP]

Though I didn't say it, yes this would have to be optional. I think a switch on the region menu that responds to select mode. This would mean some sort of lock indicator on the region itself, like the varispeed indicator. The number 2 stretch mode would have to be a keyboard command...maybe alt+ctrl+drag (is that already used?)

I actually think the 2. mode might be best, because it doesn't hide settings a menu down...though, it could be messy if there was automation in the middle you don't want scaled. But, as I work on soundtracks, I resize regions a lot, and it is messy having the region edge automation left behind. If I was working on more static things, like music mixes, this probably woundn't be as high a priority, but with sound for picture I am constantly reconforming my work to new picture edits. I hope Bob can find an elegant way to accomplish the intent, even if my suggestions aren't the best way of doing it.

MM.



I echo MM:

6. Lock automation to region edge. *option only

[Carlos Mills]

Hi Bob,

Well, since the subject has been raised... :)

1. Auto Input Monitor capability: being able to playback, record and monitor throw the same Input Channel and using the console live for routing and processing would be a dream come true for the way I want to work.

As for the other suggestions given here:


2. A way to stretch region automation at the same time that I am stretching region boundries...essentially tying a region boundry move to a marked automation boundry move equal to the region size.
Only as an option IMMV. I like to think Regions and Automations as two separate entities.



4. Automatic library view refresh after save mixfile and other non-playback data writing.
Seems good to me.



6. Lock automation to region edge. Many times my only automation moves are at the beginning and ends of regions. I would love to be able to lock these setting so that if I alt drag, they stay at the beginning or end.
Why not use select mode? This way you could move and keep the automations...



7. I use the marked region automation mode a lot. (the one where if you have a marked area, new automation is written to the beginning of the mark, and automation equal to the previous automation is written to the end of the mark). I would love this to work on plugins by being carried through to the API, for settings and plugin bypass buttons.
Good idea, but I wonder if this is something from Bob's side only?



* automation of loading VSP & DXP presets - This for me is my #1 desire for a new feature at this point. Since VST and DX automation is such a bear to program it seems that the ability to have the loading of SAW's own VSP or DXP preset files as an automateable item in the multitrack timeline would streamline a huge amount of end users needs for effects automation. Currently you can still automate a DX or VST effects setting change by just loading multiple instances of the plugin to one track and bypassing them off and on - but this sometimes is not that elegant to actually work with. I think VSP & DXP automated loading would open a ton of possibilties without having to get as deeply involved with all the MS & Steinberg cludgy coding.
Very nice idea Steve... I hope it's possible...



* I'm pretty sure you mentioned this was planned for an update already - but ability to build mix to seperate soundfiles for each track without having to have additional output devices loaded would be really fantastic.
I second this!



* Export to AIFF. I know there are a number of freeware apps that can convert wav to aiff (and have 2 of them on my box) but since we can do direct import of aiff without having to write new files I'd figure it'd be worth asking for the ability to write Built Mix files as aif as for those of us who often have to create files for Mac workstations this would save a little time and space.
Agreed!


Best regards,

[MMP]

Carlos,

6. is about resizing a region using alt-drag, and having the edge automation move with the resizing. As it works now, you have to resize the region then mark and move the automation to the leading edge of the region(which is hard to do accurately). So, a select mode paste really wouldn't work in this instance.

MM

[Carlos Mills]

Hi Michael,

I see, I thought you were talking about [Alt] + click / drag (after marking a region or part of it...). I think I was confused because you talked about a similar feature in topic 2... :o

Carlos,

6. is about resizing a region using alt-drag, and having the edge automation move with the resizing. As it works now, you have to resize the region then mark and move the automation to the leading edge of the region(which is hard to do accurately). So, a select mode paste really wouldn't work in this instance.

MM

[AudioAstronomer]

Well I just have to chime in on this specific one...

the ONLY thing about sawstudio that isnt totally instantaneous for me is undo and redo. Everytime I wanna redo it takes me a couple seconds to remember what it is (ive done it at least a million times), then take my hand off my mouse find the weird buttons, hand back on the mouse to see what the undo actually did... and repeat.

Ive used that dang ctrl-, (or ctrl-< whatever you call it) soooo many times, but for everyone time I do that, Ive used ctrl Z a thousand more. Heck, Ive used ctrl-z writing this post 3 times now!

The really kicker for me is Ctrl-, (ctrl-<>) is in a different place on all my keyboards... gyration (which has it perfect), standard, MS, and all my laptops have it slightly different. But ctrl-z is in the same place on about every keyboard.

[Bob L]

I would suggest you take a moment and use the Edit Menu Undo/Redo... this eliminates taking your hand off the mouse at all... and it gives you a split second to think about it before causing a serious session upset by accident. :)

Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

I would suggest you take a moment and use the Edit Menu Undo/Redo... this eliminates taking your hand off the mouse at all... and it gives you a split second to think about it before causing a serious session upset by accident. :)

Bob L
Hum.. the main point is for me (and most people) you just reach for ctrl-z out of habit because for me I KNow.. for every pixel my mouse has moved on the screen.. in evrey other software Ive probabaly hit ctrl-z once :) hahaha

But the menu is a good idea, never thought of that. Probably easier to get in that habit.

[tomasino]

All I want is a "Garbage In / Hit Single Out" processor button.
Just "one" on the master output channel. No need to duplicate the button on every channel. Very simple. :D

[Tim Miskimon]

"However, I would vote against Steve's suggestion of Cntr Z for undo. I like the more practical 'lesser than/greater than current level'. Why MS chose Cntrl Z baffles me..."

Baffles me, too. But, as was already mentioned, EVERYBODY knows that if they hit CTRL-Z it will undo. Plus you can easily do it with your left hand, while leaving the right hand on the mouse. If you're a southpaw, well, tough luck :p

I'm all about the option of using CTRL-Z for undo.

I also like the idea of locking automations to region edges (if desired) so if the edges are dragged, the automation follows.

I'm still so new, I don't feel qualified to make feature requests, but if anything comes to me, I'll speak up, I guess. I'll be working this coming week for the first time exclusively on SAW doing some sound work for a very small feature I just locked picture on tonight. I'm very excited to finally be doing some "real" audio work, instead of just poking around in the software.

CTRL-Z for undo gets my vote.
...But hey I would also like to see Sound Forge, Acid, & CD Architect adopt some of Bob's key strokes.
Yesterday while using Acid to edit some loops I kept hitting the wrong keys for commands - I was really cussing that damn program...
:eek:
I don't use it that often but had to for the project I was doing. A few more days of torcher and it's back to my happy Saw land for me... :D
Tim

[Tim Miskimon]

I'd like a feature that would make people play/sing in time/tune. Could this be ready for the next update Bob?

God invented that a long ago - it's called TALENT...
;)
Tim

[SoundSuite]

* automation of loading VSP & DXP presets

* I'm pretty sure you mentioned this was planned for an update already - but ability to build mix to seperate soundfiles for each track without having to have additional output devices loaded would be really fantastic.

* ability to load mono files to either L or R of a stereo track.
(snip)
I think a couple commands in the file menu that would in effect "open mono sound file and add to left channel of multitrack" and "open mono sound file and add to right channel of multitrack" would take care of this need very well.

* Layers View - this had been mentioned before - but I think it would be awesome to have an additional view where you could expand a single track to display all of its layers in a similar way as the multitrack view allowing for quick visual referencing of all regions on all layers (and hopefully also use multitrack commands to copy/move the regions between each layer) . I think this would come in mighty handy for things like editing complex vocal comps quite a bit quicker.

perfect mind reading




* key commands for Open Soundfile and Open Soundfile and add to MT. With the Library view these aren't that important - still for some people (including myself) this would help to streamline workflow. I should note that I've set up this item and the one above using Perfect Keyboard Lite - but it'd be nicer to not have to have an app running in the background in order to effect these basic requests.

didn't it used to be alt+f > M in a prior version somewhere?
I did miss that when it went away, but have gotten to accept it is gone due to alt? key needs in other places.




* For MWS: For my own way of working both a Score and Loop/Pattern views are a must have in any midi sequencer so if these were added to MWS I would definitely hop on board with a lot of enthusiam. I think there are a lot of others working in film scoring or with loop oriented musics such as hip-hop or electronica who would agree.

absolutely



* ReWire - yup - I know I'm beating a dead horse here and I'm aware that:
1) Propellarheads have done everything they could to make this a totally clumsy interface
2) that integrating it totally drags SAW's performance down -
but I would eventually love to still have it as a plugin option - and judging by requests I think others would still too. Based on recent remarks I know I'll probably never see this implemented - but figured it doesn't hurt to ask once again.

This does not 'effect' me, no rewire anything.
I do see the merit of functionality in SAW, but I cannot imagine the implementation.



Now - if only I could find a midi controllable espresso machine I'd be able to have SAW handle making sure there was a nice steaming cup of java ready for me each morning too! :)

John has a great how-to guide on a similar yet totally different item:
http://www.sawstudiouser.net/forums/showpost.php?p=13642&postcount=4

I tried to follow his example, but the spring kept pulling out my 1/16" unbalanced needle jack inputs by NewTrick.
So, I followed the same principle as John describes above, but instead attempted duct taping the spring from the input of MT1 on my monitor (I find uniform sounds best) to an automated fader externally, I was then able to get SAW to control my spring tension on my reverb.
I could see the spring stretching with the automation from SAW.!
Lemme tell you, it is great to watch!
I however had trouble hearing any difference in the tension in the signal. I guess I'm going deaf from the rock and roll.
I heard John's example but couldn't get the spring to stretch to vary it, now I'm stretching the spring and not getting signal differences.
oh well, back to the drawing board with me!

Good luck getting the 'sprezzo cheen going, Steve... once you are reminded you are it's slave and it is master, everything will sync up and hopefully you'll have better success than I.
it really can work... I'm telling you.

[Mountain Media]

Original Posted by SoundSuite

John has a great how-to guide on a similar yet totally different item:
http://www.sawstudiouser.net/forums/showpost.php?p=13642&postcount=4

I tried to follow his example, but the spring kept pulling out my 1/16" unbalanced needle jack inputs by NewTrick.
So, I followed the same principle as John describes above, but instead attempted duct taping the spring from the input of MT1 on my monitor (I find uniform sounds best) to an automated fader externally, I was then able to get SAW to control my spring tension on my reverb.
I could see the spring stretching with the automation from SAW.!
Lemme tell you, it is great to watch!
I however had trouble hearing any difference in the tension in the signal. I guess I'm going deaf from the rock and roll.
I heard John's example but couldn't get the spring to stretch to vary it, now I'm stretching the spring and not getting signal differences.
oh well, back to the drawing board with me!

Good luck getting the 'sprezzo cheen going, Steve... once you are reminded you are it's slave and it is master, everything will sync up and hopefully you'll have better success than I.
it really can work... I'm telling you.Jon, sorry it's been so hard getting it 'springing'. A few technical implementation tips, if I may - I am working on publishing a white-paper on this revolutionary approach to digital 'verb :p , but I haven't been able to assimilate all the recent, and varying, information on sample-rates and bit-depths to validate what the optimum and appropriate sinusodial wave frequency characteristics of the spring should be:o . - However, I digress -
as for some tips - I believe the basic problem you are having is that you are using Uniform. It MUST be Classic, or at minimum, Original Vintage for this implementation to work correctly. In addition, the duct tape will, probably, add too great a damping factor to the spring, however, this may not be too much of a problem, considering you are attaching directly to the monitor (assuming you mean your Genelec's, and not the video monitor) - just make sure you attach DIRECTLY to the exact physical center of the mid's cone, insuring the maximum spring extension, unless you want more low's then you will need to attach to the sub's cone. Try those and let me know, I'm holding on the paper until I have more testing results.

--WOW, must be something in the 'SPRING' air that's working it's way into the East Coast weather!! Just too 'punny' for words, Jon - and several in the past few days from up NC way!! Remember, Spring in two weeks! :D

[Yura]

One wish as for the graphics.

If would not so difficult, it'd be nice to have "Shades" option in MWS too.

Most of wishes sounded here are cool, especially
concerning of DX-VST plugs auto presets, resizing a region using alt-drag - having the edge automation move with the resizing, Loop/Pattern function in MWS ...

[mikebuzz]

Built in track sheets ???
Help file pop up's

Later
Buzz

for the less expirienced here :rolleyes:

[Oz Nimbus]

My gripe list is very, very small.

1) Input monitoring: I'm sure it's been mentioned, but I'd love to be able to playback, record, and monitor all on the same channel. I'd also love an "audio engine start/stop" switch so I don't have to have the REC box up and work elsewhere.

2) A "DUMP" command. Basically bypass all mix data & FX settings and drop each track into it's own discrete file.

That's about it. I'm one happy engineer.

-0z-

[SoundSuite]

awww, shucks
monitor = speaker monitor

no wonder, I DID have it taped to the CRT monitor
http://forums.clanmist.com/images/smilies/togo.gif

[Bob L]

By the way, you can monitor and record and playback all on the same channel already... when the channels are set for Live Input monitoring and you drop the recording to the same channel, just use the Shift-Key when you engage playback and the channels will automatically switch back to MT mode for the playback, without altering your live input setup.

Bob L

[bit]

Ehm. Hi.

I like the automation follow but splice while alt draging idea.

Another thing I wish for regarding automation is this: While lifting a selection in select mode the first selected region on each track should automaticly get an automation change written to it at the beginning of whatever automation in use on the track. Same with the first entry after the last lifted region on the track. The value lifted away should be written here. At the dropping point the current value (before the drop) should written to the end of the last dropped region on each track. This would guarantee an intact mix after any select-mode edit if you have the "include orphan automation" option enabled too. To avoid this getting too complex it could be for horisontal drops only.

BIT

[Oz Nimbus]

Now that I think about it, I've got 3 more small requests... which are probably a nightmare to code, so here's to wishful thinking!

The Compressor: Two small features I'd love to see:
A limiter on the back end of the compressor, after the make up gain stage. Switchable, and with a soft rounding off of whatever it clamps down on.
An "auto release" switch for dummies like me who can never seem to get the release settings right.

The EQ: Hi & low shelves. Yes, I know, the hi & lo cuts are a shelf of sorts, but I'd love a shelf where you can adjust the amount of cut, not just on/off.



--Just hoping
-0z-

[Oz Nimbus]

By the way, you can monitor and record and playback all on the same channel already... when the channels are set for Live Input monitoring and you drop the recording to the same channel, just use the Shift-Key when you engage playback and the channels will automatically switch back to MT mode for the playback, without altering your live input setup.

Bob L


I've known about the shift/playback for quite some time.... What I'm talking about is the ability to monitor/playback simultaneously on the same channel. This will make doing punch ins on drum tracks much easier.

[Bob L]

The tape style switching is in the works for 4.0 hopefully.

Bob L

[Tim Miskimon]

The tape style switching is in the works for 4.0 hopefully.

Bob L

Gee That would really be cool Bob!
I hope you can pull that one off...Let me rephrase that...
I know you can pull that one off... ;)

P.S. I'm still waiting on the spell checker feature to be added to this forum.... :eek:

[Electric Dog Studios]

Yes! :) Tapemachine-style monitoring..esp. with (dare I mention) ASIO ( :rolleyes: sorry) zero latency protocol in addition to RME's ZLM, would mean I could resist no longer. Comparitively trivial: would love to see option for meters to refect whats 'on tape' ie be pre-fade on playback, just like the real thing. IMHO more useful during mix. All the best.

[razor]

Hi Bob

Any chance of a click identification algorithm to locate clicks in the sound file view, or some kind of expanded wave form that highlights the click transient anomalies?

Drag and drop?

Double click instead of insert into edl button?

Otherwise ditto to most previous suggestions especially the automation stuff.

Thanks

Phil

[Carlos Mills]

Hi Bob,


The tape style switching is in the works for 4.0 hopefully.

Bob L


Thanks so much for looking into this Bob! :)
I am sure 4.0 will be a killer!

Take care

[Carlos Mills]

Hi Electric


Yes! :) Tapemachine-style monitoring..esp. with (dare I mention) ASIO ( :rolleyes: sorry) zero latency protocol in addition to RME's ZLM, would mean I could resist no longer. Comparitively trivial: would love to see option for meters to refect whats 'on tape' ie be pre-fade on playback, just like the real thing. IMHO more useful during mix. All the best.

Nice idea about the meters, but, with SS, we can do really low latencies with MME... low enough to use it with tapemachine-style monitoring... so, as long as you get away from WDM, it is just a matter of taste... ASIO, MME or DWave... ;)

[Alan Lastufka]

Does SAW/MWS have a "freeze" function? Especially a "deep freeze" function which takes a VSTi and creates a temp audio file (.wav) of each of the VSTi's output channels and then unloads the samples from RAM from the VST. This can help free up resources, especially with the size most sample libs are reaching these days, while also allowing for easy editing of an instrument by "unfreezing" it later (reloading the samples and disabling the temp wav files).

One drum lib I use takes up 550MB of RAM alone, try loading a grand piano and bass and B4 on top of that - you'll be in blue screen heaven. :)

If this isn't included I guess it would be my pre-purchase wish.

[Bob L]

Once you are set on a VSTi performance, you simply start building a mix to hottracks for each instrument. Then you can unload the VSTi and go back to real audio mixing.You disable the MWS tracks and finish the project in the audio realm with real eq and compression and reverb etc.

If you need to fix a VSTi instrument part, simply re-enable the MWS track... patch up your VSTi and rebuild the mix for that track.

The beauty of it all is you do not have to playback each part in realtime... the build mixes are much faster than realtime.

Bob L

[SoundSuite]

Yes! :) Tapemachine-style monitoring..esp. with (dare I mention) ASIO ( :rolleyes: sorry) zero latency protocol in addition to RME's ZLM, would mean I could resist no longer. Comparitively trivial: would love to see option for meters to refect whats 'on tape' ie be pre-fade on playback, just like the real thing. IMHO more useful during mix. All the best.
If you want a pre-fader / pre-fx meter, punch one in on the Pre-FX as plugin#1

SAW is a different beast from tape, the sooner you 'forget' the ways you have to do things on tape, the sooner you'll grasp SAW :)

Welcome to the forums!

[Electric Dog Studios]

Hi Carlos and thanks for that. For sure, latency excellent with MME. Only reason I mentioned ASIO is that I thought - and I could well be wrong; may be other factors involved - that the ASIO direct monitoring protocol, at least on RME cards, automatically routs the input signal to the output of the track about to be recorded on, whereas the MME/ZLM protocol routs the signal to the track output corresponding to the input channel being used, unless track selection/panning are manually configured in the Totalmix applet. Like I say, I might be way off course here, if so, apologies :)
Thanks for the meter tip, SoundSuite, and the advice.. yup, I've got a lot of learning to do :o ..although I'm sure you'd agree, SAWStudio more closely emulates the way one works with real tape/gear that the other DAW apps, and for me, that's part of its appeal. Thanks also for the welcome :)
Regards, EDS.

[Oz Nimbus]

Bob,

One pertinent question about 4.0.... will there be a fee to upgrade?

Considering all of the updates in the last year, it would be totally justifiable.

I'm just curious....

-0z-

[Bob L]

No decision on any update fees or not... still waiting to see how it all turns out.

Bob L

[Marvin]

* automation of loading VSP & DXP presets - This for me is my #1 desire for a new feature at this point ...//... I think VSP & DXP automated loading would open a ton of possibilties without having to get as deeply involved with all the MS & Steinberg cludgy coding.

* I'm pretty sure you mentioned this was planned for an update already - but ability to build mix to seperate soundfiles for each track without having to have additional output devices loaded would be really fantastic.

* ability to load mono files to either L or R of a stereo track. ...//

* Layers View - this had been mentioned before - but I think it would be awesome to have an additional view where you could expand a single track to display all of its layers in a similar way as the multitrack view allowing for quick visual referencing of all regions on all layers (and hopefully also use multitrack commands to copy/move the regions between each layer) . I think this would come in mighty handy for things like editing complex vocal comps quite a bit quicker.




2) A "DUMP" command. Basically bypass all mix data & FX settings and drop each track into it's own discrete file.


Wow SAW 4.0. Been to busy to even dream about it :)
I totally agree on these issues. Especially the automation of loading VSP & DXP presets. This is the only thing I actually miss. The other improvements are pure bonuses. SAW has already moved beyond most of my dreams...

And I have to say this again, though it's been said a million times: The possibility to actually discuss these matters with the Programmer himself - it just blows me away. Thank you for all your time and effort Bob!

/Marvin

[mikebuzz]

Ya know BOB the main reason I chose SAW was because of you !!!!! and the support I recieved on the product I purchased !!!! I'll be honest I am very happy wuth what I puchased from you ( I ;ll Do it again in a heatbeat )


ALso because Of ROBERT ( audio astronomer ) who was also VERY HEPLFUL espescially ( speeeeeel chckexkd ) damn , when I needed it ( thank you Robert AGAIN !!!!!!)


I am very appreciative ( damn SPPPPPPPLL chk again ) of all of you, and the level of service that is related with this program .

it is beyond belief ??????


OK I nedd a break

Well from work anyhow

Later
Buzz

PS: you guys are the greatest

REALLY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY



:cool:

[Carl G.]

NEW suggestion I would "REAAAAALLY" like! (I really played gave this a lot of thought)

Have the "V" Filter key snap the cursor *During Playback* from Multitrack track to corresponding Channel Fader of Z mixer!!!

And for those with Lite: pop up the E mixer and snap cursor to Fader!!!
(if it's not to much overhead in coding)

This would save a lot mousing, provide efficient instant access in navigation, and ability to speed lightning fast through complex mixes.

[bit]

I have a good one here I think.

While in automation V mode. Why don't have a sweep to next automation change function for the highlighted automation. Like the F key does for the fader. I think Bob can include this easy.



Bjorn

[Shawn]

I have a good one here I think.

While in automation V mode. Why don't have a sweep to next automation change function for the highlighted automation. Like the F key does for the fader. I think Bob can include this easy.
Bjorn

It's already in there!

By using the automation view filter to isolate a specific automation type, you can do nice even sweeps on most automatable controls by using the F key.

[bit]

Fantastic !!! I was wondering why Bob hadn't thought of that himself. And then he had..... Has this been like this for long? I can't believe I've missed it.
Thanks Shawn, Bob.

Bjorn

[Veit Kenner]

.... Has this been like this for long? I can't believe I've missed it.
From what I recall it had been there right from the beginning of automation filtering. Sorry to hear it slipped through your attention. OTOH, you have something nice to be happy about :-)

Cheers,

Veit

[Shawn]

Fantastic !!! I was wondering why Bob hadn't thought of that himself. And then he had.....
Bjorn

That was pretty much my exact thinking too! I found out about this the same way you just did.. maybe 6 or 8 months ago, LOL!

:)

[conleec]

It's already in there!

By using the automation view filter to isolate a specific automation type, you can do nice even sweeps on most automatable controls by using the F key.

Sorry, I mentioned this in another post before seeing it here, but I have a request regarding the automation view filter.

For me, it would be nice to see at a glance which parameters have been modified (ie: aren't currently at default position) when I open the view filter. Maybe put a dot next to them, or make them bold?

This would make it easier for me to find out what residual effects are perhaps coloring my tracks.

On a similar note, I like the idea somebody mentioned of automatically setting in and out automation points on a track when a region is moved in from someplace else. That would guarantee that your mix doesn't get screwed up behind the new region(s).

I also second the idea of having automation curves lock to region edges when alt-dragging (as an option?)

Thanks.

[Carlos Mills]

Hi Conleec,


For me, it would be nice to see at a glance which parameters have been modified (ie: aren't currently at default position) when I open the view filter. Maybe put a dot next to them, or make them bold?

It is easy to check which parameters have been modified... just open WideMixer View and pass the cursor over the automations... the mixer will change accordingly... if the automation is linked to a plug in, the same idea would apply... you may wish to set up a F-Key view for that purpose...


On a similar note, I like the idea somebody mentioned of automatically setting in and out automation points on a track when a region is moved in from someplace else. That would guarantee that your mix doesn't get screwed up behind the new region(s).

Not always we want to keep the settings when moving regions some place else. As I said before, thinking automations and regions as two separete entities is a better approuch in my modest vision. If it's an option, no problems for me...


I also second the idea of having automation curves lock to region edges when alt-dragging (as an option?)

What if there are automations also spread inside de regions... would they also move? Or only the ones that are in the edges? What if the audio that preceed the automation is quite different? Anyway, you would be applying an automation into something you didn't hear yet... in this case, I would prefer just to use the default setting for the track...
Please don't get my questions in a negative way... this are just thoughts that make me wonder...

Best regards,

[ffarrell]

Ok lets get down to it.

1. a HTTP hook that AUTO logs you into Starbucks coffee web site for coffee orders. This must be automatable from the control track so if your working on a all-nighter you can preset your coffee breaks by beat/tempo or by smpte.

2. a TCPIP to X10 home automation switch in the control track for trigging events. Like for turning on a coffee pot or turning out lites.

3. a Clam filter on the channel strip, for those players that need more then 72 tracks / 8 deep, just to fix a solo.

OR

I'll just see what Bob has in store for us. Been a great ride so far.:)

thanks
fvf

[UpTilDawn]

I've been wrestling with live mode on and off for some time now and could really use a central chapter on the basic setup and uses of this baby.

Any chance that you'll update the manual to include a chapter on live mode any time soon Bob?

Thanks,
DanT

[Kahalab]

Hello Bob!

I thought i would add a few suggestions to the list for improving what is a great program.

First, here are several suggestions for making the use of FX plugins easier:

- have a bypass button next to each Patched FX (reverb, chorus, overdrive, whatever) so that we can quickly turn each individual FX on and off for each track.

- double click on an FX choice and it automatically loads into the FX Patch area at the highlighted location. (In fact, that was how i intuitively thought it would work and was really surpised when nothing happened.)

- right click on a plug-in fx choices and be able to add it to an FX Patch - in any position in that Patch. (this was the second thing i tried, and again nothing happened)

- right click on a Patched FX and be able to remove it

- be able to drag and drop a plug-in from the FX Choice's list to an FX Patch list.

- be able to drag a plug-in from one position in an FX Patch list to another position within that list.

- How about letting us load multiple FX at once by using CTRL + a mouse click to mark them in FX Choices and then ragging them or right clicking them into one of the FX Patches.

- I can understand why VST and DX plugs would remain on top of the SawStudio environment, but not why they remain on top of the windows environment. Please turn this off. I switch a lot to other programs, it really annoying when you make the jump from SawStudio to Word or your email program and the FX screen stays on top blocking whatever you want to jump to. SawStudio is the only program i have that does this.

- Please don't have the FX pop up when it is added to a Patch list. If i want to load 4 of them i have to load one, close it, load the next one, close it, etc.


Next, it would be great if we could open and load multiple files at once into a session. I'm doing a lot of recording on a remote unit - it would be great to be able to load up 10 tracks at once into MT rather than each one individually. Sonar (which is generally slow compared to SawStudio) does this and it only take seconds to load up 5, 10, or 15 tracks.

Some simple basic hot keys to things like open a file, open a session, update a session, etc would truely make life a lot easier.

These next two are more like bug fixes:
Please center the sample redraw so that it accurately grabs the sample. If you max out the view and try redrawing you'll notice that when you hold down the shift key (and keep it held) and click on a sample it tends to grab samples to the left of the mouse cursor that are signifcantly further away from the cursor than the sample to the right of the cursor. It isn't even close to centered. If you are redrawing several thousand samples (like i've done these last few weeks) then it gets frustrating. Sound Forges drawing function was dead on centered and it made it a lot easier to work with.

Perhaps you could do something about the way Saw Studio task switches in XP. When i tap ALT + TAB to switch it doesn't respond instantly like it should - Saw Studio seems to hold on a second or two.

Finally, you might want to utilize the real estate more with your program. I love the multiple views and the ability to set them up exaclty as i like - it's one of the strongest features of your program, but there is still a lot of wasted space that could be used for good purpose. I've worked with Sonar for a long time and a friend of mine masters on Protools and i think both are quite efficient in their space utilization.

Still Saw Studio has some unique and sweet features - like the increadible ease in getting a track stretch to a mark end. If you want to loop a drum track to something else this makes it really easy =o)

Saw Studio is a great program in many ways. If you keep streamlining to make it as absolutely quick as possible to use you have a real winner. The less amount of time and distance one has to use and move the mouse, and the least number of keystrokes one has to use, is directly proportional to the amount of time we can focus on mixing and sound. The less energy used to navigate the interface, the more energy free for the music.

Thank you! :) :)

[Bob L]

- have a bypass button next to each Patched FX (reverb, chorus, overdrive, whatever) so that we can quickly turn each individual FX on and off for each track.

A button adds a lot of overhead to the listboxes and is kludgy code... but I do have it on the list to be able to disable plugs in the listbox one at a time... hopefully coming in 4.0


- double click on an FX choice and it automatically loads into the FX Patch area at the highlighted location. (In fact, that was how i intuitively thought it would work and was really surpised when nothing happened.)

Can't do that because you have to specify a destination for Pre or Pst or Final Res... some extra options here compared to the other DAW's you mention.


- right click on a plug-in fx choices and be able to add it to an FX Patch - in any position in that Patch. (this was the second thing i tried, and again nothing happened)

You simply select an entry in the listbox and then use the Add button to insert the FX in front of the selected item.


- right click on a Patched FX and be able to remove it

Simply select it and click the Rem button... I see no real advantage to wasting the right-click on that. May better be used for the bypass feature.


- be able to drag and drop a plug-in from the FX Choice's list to an FX Patch list.

Again, for all the code required, I see no advantage... you still have to select it in the listbox when you go to grab it... then you will have to hold onto it to drag it to the destination Patch view... seems much easier to simply select it and then click the Add button in the desired Patch window... besides, this way you can add it numerous times and on many different tracks without having to re-select it in the Choices window each time.


- be able to drag a plug-in from one position in an FX Patch list to another position within that list.

Try the Ctrl-Up and Ctrl-Dn Arrow keys.


- How about letting us load multiple FX at once by using CTRL + a mouse click to mark them in FX Choices and then dragging them or right clicking them into one of the FX Patches.

Personally I'd say slow down and do one thing at a time... patching multiple plugs and then opening them all and adjusting their settings is a one by one kind of operation... besides, you can do more than that already using the Store and Recall channel module features... in fact you can load dozens of plugs on dozens of tracks with one click if you really want to work that way.



- I can understand why VST and DX plugs would remain on top of the SawStudio environment, but not why they remain on top of the windows environment.

Unfortunately Windows does not allow me to change Window ONTOP status without many annoying side effects once a Window is already created... Internal variables and flags get altered and its a nightmare to try to track down... I am forced to delete all window hooks (thousands of variables) and re-create everything from scratch each time it changes... this is not an acceptable solution with dozens of Windows needing to change everytime you switch the focus... I'm still looking for a good solution... when I find one, it will end up in an update. In the meantime, simply minimize SAWStudio and everything will clear from the screen while you work in your other apps... a very easy change to your current methods.


- Please don't have the FX pop up when it is added to a Patch list. If i want to load 4 of them i have to load one, close it, load the next one, close it, etc.

Try using the Shift-Key when you click the Add button.


I'm doing a lot of recording on a remote unit - it would be great to be able to load up 10 tracks at once into MT rather than each one individually.
Read about the Library views... you can load dozens of tracks in one click and you have options for looping down the timeline or for spreading the files across tracks.... you can also link or actually import data from other sessions and create new copies at the same time exclusive to the current session.


Some simple basic hot keys to things like open a file, open a session, update a session, etc would truely make life a lot easier.

Really... how much easier can it be than to click a menu option once in a while to open a session... look at the Recent Session option... Opening sessions is not something I think that requires an instant keystroke... besides, what's more important, a fast keystroke that takes you to the open dialog where you have to think and navigate to find the file anyway... and then wait sometimes for minutes for the session to actually open in many DAW's... or the fact that once you click the option in SAWStudio... 50 track sessions with thousands of regions and automation entries and possibly midi and video hooks can open and completely reset 10,000 plus mixing controls all within a few seconds.



Please center the sample redraw so that it accurately grabs the sample.

The current method is not in error... it's actually a design feature... it always grabs the sample to the left of the cursor... I find it to be more effective in trying to straighten out large groups of samples with a smooth sweep of the mouse... if you go with the flow of the design and practice for a short time instead of being upset because it does not work like what you are used to in other DAW's, you might find there is a reason to the madness.


Perhaps you could do something about the way Saw Studio task switches in XP. When i tap ALT + TAB to switch it doesn't respond instantly like it should - Saw Studio seems to hold on a second or two.

I use the Alt key for many modifier and editing operations in many different ways in different windows... Giving up the Alt key and its use in hundreds of commands just so Windows can comfortably task switch is not even a consideration for me... What are you doing having to task switch anyway while you're supposed to be busy doing a session in SAWStudio? :)



Finally, you might want to utilize the real estate more with your program.

With the design of the F-Key Workspace views I would argue that there is no other system at any cost that is remotely as effective in using the screen real-estate as SAWStudio. :)

Filling every square inch with confusion and hot zones is not my idea of effective programming design... and for the record... SAWStudio does not work like the other systems you mentioned, ON PURPOSE... by design and after tens of thousands of hours of concentrated effort aimed to that end. :D

Spend a little more time with the helpfiles and learning the design flow... most of your requests are already there and in an enhanced form.

Good Luck,

Bob L

[Tree Leopard]

New Project Options Menu Page

A dedicated Project Options & Set-Up Page - perhaps a new F-Key - showing your entire driver / soundcard / sample rate / frame rate / project preferences etc ALL on the one page. This could appear as a consolidated window.

It would be great if you could adjust all these settings at once - or have a tabbed page, if need be - rather than criss-crossing the GUI to get to each of the different drop-down menus & dialog boxes.

You could also access / create all your preference files from this one page.
The GUI in Tracktion offers an interesting solution for this.

Timeline

A 24 hour Continuous Timeline, so you can loop right through a project in and still be in TC (NB: SAW Basic "ends" @ 23:18:06:02 & xx frames)

Also: an option to have the timeline itself on the header OR the footer (where it is now) of the MT window.


Entry Name Position

Make new defaults: stereo track = center / mono = top
(all of which you can change later, as the options exist)

Another vote for Ctrl + Z, full AIFF & Bwav support, a TALENT button, and Italian style expresso on demand!

Thanks!

Andre

[Tim Miskimon]

With the design of the F-Key Workspace views I would argue that there is no other system at any cost that is remotely as effective in using the screen real-estate as SAWStudio. :)



Bob L

Bob is certainly right about that!
After using Nuendo, Cakewalk, Sonar, Cubase, etc. - SS has the cleanest looking interface - all the others look cluttered & it gets hard on the eyes after a while.
I wouldn't mind having the mentioned effects bypass switch per channel if there was a way without cluttering the screen - otherwise I'd rather use 2 monitors.
Tim

[Carl G.]

Unfortunately Windows does not allow me to change Window ONTOP status without many annoying side effects .....I'm still looking for a good solution... when I find one, it will end up in an update. In the meantime, simply minimize SAWStudio and everything will clear from the screen while you work in your other apps... a very easy change to your current methods.
Bob L
Bob,
You have the solution already in there! I use it everyday!
I simply create "Alt" keys with SAWStudio arranged on 1/4 of the screen so that I can use other apps on the other part of the screen (like reading copy), Viewer, etc. (with only several tracks going at the time of voice tracking the 'tweeked' computer is perfectly capable of handling this with lots of room to spare).
Thanks!

[UpTilDawn]

Originally posted by Bob L:...simply minimize SAWStudio and everything will clear from the screen while you work in your other apps... a very easy change to your current methods.
Bob L

Yes! This works great... and I've actually found it helpful (after getting used to it). This gives me the option of moving Saw out of the way when I need to, or letting certain things overlap the other program, such as having the Saw record meter sit on top of Sonar while I make adjustments to a midi track I'm bouncing to Saw (no midiworkshop on this computer).

DanT

[UpTilDawn]

Any chance that you'll update the manual to include a chapter on live mode any time soon Bob?

I'm still curious about this question, which got trounced on just after posting
( :( ).


Thanks Bob,
danT

[SoundSuite]

I'm still curious about this question, which got trounced on just after posting
( :( ).


Thanks Bob,
danT

There is almost too many things you can do in Live Mode, which makes documenting Live Mode usage a very large endevour to cover all possible usages. imo
I'd rather answer each individual's question here on the forum vs Bob taking time away from coding to write a help file :D

If you consider this forum to be SAW's help file, your questions will be answered.

[Bob L]

Perhaps I will embellish the helpfile with more details about setting up Live Mode... since now it has become a stable feature of the environment.

I also have some videos planned.

Time seems to be the main problem in getting around to everything. :)

Bob L

[UpTilDawn]

YES! Videos! I love the videos!

I'm slowly compiling a notebook of live mode operations, but I have a lot of duplication at the moment... not too efficient.

No pressure Bob. I realize you have a lot on your plate.
danT

[Mountain Media]

Time seems to be the main problem in getting around to everything. :)

Bob LShould we all vote for 28 hour days so Bob can have more time to do everything?? :D

[Kahalab]

Wow!! Thank you for the increadibly long and detailed answer Bob!!

Ok, obviously i have overlooked a lot since quite a few of my suggestions already exist - just not in the manner i am used to doing them. I promise to take some more time and read the help files and learn the hot keys commands. You are right, using Saw Studio means getting your head around a very different system in a lot of ways. You've got a lot of clever ideas and as i've been getting my head around them i find a lot of them really help my productivity.

As for the sample redraw, i prefer the centered method, even with sweeping redraws. However, this is just a question of two different methods to achieve the same purpose and comes down to personal taste.

More important is adding, removing, organizing, dialing in, and previewing FX. It is the one part of your often amazing program that i percieve to be comparatively underdeveloped (maybe i just haven't gotten my head around it yet). Maybe you could use the insert key to add and the delete key to remove - just like adding a region to the highlighted MT track. In otherwords, if you first mark the position in the post or pre patches and then mark the FX you want to add and then press insert it automatically adds it in. (I assume that the reason this feature exists for adding regions is to make the flow go more quickly).

Would love to slow down a bit, but i've got several projects to finish so it's meant working 12-16 hour days. You know how it is ...

Again thank you very much for taking the time to answer with such detail!! Only you and Greg Hendershot (developer of Cakewalk, nowadays Sonar) have ever actually responded in detail to any of my suggestions or comments. It's adds an important human deminsion to this virtual production world we head further and further into.

Keep up the good work!
:) :) :)

[MMP]

Round two:

Tab and shift tab available during playback
Quickly audition regions down a track, or jump to multiple mixes on the same timeline


Video Viewer position saves in F keys
On my dual monitors I often use the left fullscreen in overlay mode and want the viewer right, other times I want the viewer left when not in overlay mode


A special loop mode in record that increments to the next available layer until all are used
Great for those times when you want to comp between multiple improvised performances


Thanks for listening!

MM