New SAC user with SAWstudiobasic

[richswit]

Just installed SAC....gonna use it on the gigs this weekend. I've been a professional musician for 40 (:eek:) years, and I'm like a kid with this software. Sounds gooooood.

Before I start digging into the help files, does anyone use this in a recording studio scenario. You know, instead of monitoring through a mixer, which is what I do, because the latency is too bad in most DAWs. (Except in our main room, which is PRo tools HD2).

Just a quick, "yeah man, it rocks", to "don't bother trying that, dude", is all I'm after for now.
Thanks,
Rich

[Jeff Scott]

I use SawStudioLite for my recording sessions. I monotor thru the DAW. Latency is what ....about 8-9 ms all told.

For live I record all our gigs with the SAC/ SAW Link. Works fantastic. if I need a quick stereo Board mix I'll use Tapeit VST on an PrFX position of one of the outputs.

I love it. Looking to upgrade to the Full SAWStudio package when funds are available.

[Richard Rupert]

Just installed SAC....gonna use it on the gigs this weekend. I've been a professional musician for 40 (:eek:) years, and I'm like a kid with this software. Sounds gooooood.

Before I start digging into the help files, does anyone use this in a recording studio scenario. You know, instead of monitoring through a mixer, which is what I do, because the latency is too bad in most DAWs. (Except in our main room, which is PRo tools HD2).

Just a quick, "yeah man, it rocks", to "don't bother trying that, dude", is all I'm after for now.
Thanks,
Rich
I'm pretty sure Angie does this on a regular basis. You could search for her posts, or maybe she'll chime in...

[UpTilDawn]

I've used the SAC/SAW link for live multi-tracking many times and I really like it! It's extended the useful life of my aging PIV computer as well, since SAC eases the load of recording and mixing more than 24 tracks at once to a level at which that poor little beast can work without wheezing, even in high heat and humidity.

Also, have used the SAC/SAW combo in the studio some and find it works very nicely there too. Again, the older PC technology presents a few limitations for attempts at ultra-low latency, but works very well for most folk at 2x64 with the RME Multiface. Only one bass player has ever complained that the latency was too high for him to feel comfortable accurately playing 16th-note riffs (ala Tower of Power, etc.), while monitoring through the studio speakers. I think he could have gotten used to it, given more than a few minutes of testing... I've never run into a problem myself, with guitar or bass... but my chops aren't as good on bass either. :rolleyes:

[RBIngraham]

BIG NOTE: The SAC/SAW link is not available in SAW Studio Basic. You need to get at least SAW Studio Lite in order for that to work. Unless Bob changed it while I wasn't paying attention. Which is always possible.

[UpTilDawn]

BIG NOTE: The SAC/SAW link is not available in SAW Studio Basic. You need to get at least SAW Studio Lite in order for that to work. Unless Bob changed it while I wasn't paying attention. Which is always possible.

Oops! I knew that, but didn't pay enough attention to the thread title. :o

I guess whether or not you're using the link is a mute point then.

But I think SAC as a virtual mixer for studio needs works great nontheless... at least so far in my personal experience.... just to be as specific as possible... without being too specific.

[richswit]

Yep, didn't take long to realize I need SAWlite.(Maybe a little Christmas in August would be nice:))

I did setup SAC on my desktop and Saw on a laptop, and with my Motif plugged into the MOTU interface (SAC), did some midi work in SAW. Checked some Mics. Latency was not an issue. Everything is clean and quiet. :D

Look forward to using SAC on gigs this week.

Probably a dumb question, but why does SAC have MTC/SMPTE? What would you "sync" to??:confused:

[Bob L]

SAC has a Sequence view on the todo list that will be used for running show automation directly... it will be able to chase and generate SMPTE to chase or drag lighting consoles around... it will be able to link scenes and other automation functions into a show list and automate the show from start to finish...

Still working on all the details... currently, we use SAWStudioLite or Full to handle those functions running in the background.

Bob L

[richswit]

I see. So I could use Ableton Live to send Program Changes to SAC to load up a "scene" for a certain song.....like an Elvis echo on the lead mic, then a standard reverb on the lead mic for:eek: "feelings....nothing more than feelings....."??

[905shmick]

SAC has a Sequence view on the todo list that will be used for running show automation directly... it will be able to chase and generate SMPTE to chase or drag lighting consoles around... it will be able to link scenes and other automation functions into a show list and automate the show from start to finish...

Still working on all the details... currently, we use SAWStudioLite or Full to handle those functions running in the background.

Bob L

Not trying to start anything, but this feature has been on the "to do" list for almost 3 years now.

[UpTilDawn]

Not trying to start anything, but this feature has been on the "to do" list for almost 3 years now.

Then don't start anything..... be patient and let Bob work on his own schedule. :rolleyes:

[Bob L]

In fact it was on the menu and todo list since the early pre-release versions... oh well... life sometimes gets in the way of schedules.

Stabilizing the engine and network hooks took precedence over feature lists... and work still continues all the time on those aspects of the program... and while it may not be perfect yet... it sure has an awful lot of succesful shows under its belt. :)

Bob L

[Jeff Scott]

Looking forward to the Sequence view when it's done.

[905shmick]

Then don't start anything..... be patient and let Bob work on his own schedule. :rolleyes:

I'm not, I'm just trying to get a feel for a release timeline as it's been in a "to do" or "coming soon" state for quite a long time and every time it's talked about, it seems like it might be in the next release, but alas, it's not. If waiting 3 years for a feature isn't patient, I'm not sure what is.

[UpTilDawn]

I'm not, I'm just trying to get a feel for a release timeline as it's been in a "to do" or "coming soon" state for quite a long time and every time it's talked about, it seems like it might be in the next release, but alas, it's not. If waiting 3 years for a feature isn't patient, I'm not sure what is.

I'm sure you are a saint where patience is concerned. :)

I should have said be as patient as Bob has been about getting it to the top of the list... maybe. :D

I was just not in the mood to hear more of that stuff yesterday. I'm fine now. :cool:

[RBIngraham]

I see. So I could use Ableton Live to send Program Changes to SAC to load up a "scene" for a certain song.....like an Elvis echo on the lead mic, then a standard reverb on the lead mic for:eek: "feelings....nothing more than feelings....."??

Just to be clear about it, you CAN NOT currently do that in SAC. SAC doesn't allow any MIDI control from other applications or hardware, except for it's control surface support.

If you get a SAW Studio (Lite or full versions only) then you can jump through some hoops in order to recall scenes in SAC via MIDI. However it is a fairly complex process and it's not something you can do quickly and easily. It works well, but each "cue" takes a fair amount of time to create. And it also ties up SAW Studio for show control interface duties, which means you can not use it to record a show.

I am not trying to start anything either. But I think it should be clear to this new user that this functionality is not currently available in SAC. It has been on the docket for quite some time now, so if you need this functionality in the near future, I would recommend either you get SAW or you can fudge things by using something like Brome's MIDI Translator. But all that is doing is to turn a MIDI command into a spacebar press. I've used it with OK result for shows, but it's a fairly unsophisticated tool. It will always only fire off whatever scene is in standby. There is no way for it to fire off a specific scene.

Also note that when using SAW for this functionality, it only accepts Note On Commands for MIDI inputs to fire off a cue or sequence, so you could not use a MIDI Program Change Message. It only accepts one MIDI channels worth of MIDI Note Commands. So that means you can only have up to 128 cues or sequences fired off via MIDI.

[Bob L]

Richard... you can use a global note on/off midi command to step thru a list of cues one by one that is as long as you need... and a single command can fire off many automatic back to back cues in the show control list that execute automatically in sequence... so in reality it is not limited to only 128 cues.

Bob L

[richswit]

Appreciate the clear definition on that. Fortunately, it's not something that is that important to me. I'd buy a used 03D and go to town with midi controlled scene changes.:eek:

But...that is something to look forward to. I play piano/keyboards on our gigs, and the less I need to "point and click" the better!!

Tonight I debut the SAC....8-11...

Just saw Bob's post....that would be easy enough. I couldn't figure out how to move the scenes in a different order in the list. Can that be done?

[Bob L]

Just use the Ctrl and up/dn arrow keys to slide scenes up or down in the list.

And if you were using SAWStudio as show control with or without backing tracks and or video playback, then you can easily trigger unlimited scenes at any place on the timeline by name, so they don't even need to be in a specific show order.

We automate entire FOH and MON mixes in SAC this way with both SAC and SAWStudio running on the same small Shuttle machine and have shows running on Fremont st in Vegas with no FOH or MON engineers involved.

There are an amazing amount of possibilities with these tools. :)

Bob L

[richswit]

There are an amazing amount of possibilities with these tools. :)

Bob L

I'm beginning to realize just that. I feel bad that I suggested a sale price for SAC....I think it's time for a price hike!!!

(I can say that now, I'm grandfathered in:D:D:D)

[RBIngraham]

Richard... you can use a global note on/off midi command to step thru a list of cues one by one that is as long as you need... and a single command can fire off many automatic back to back cues in the show control list that execute automatically in sequence... so in reality it is not limited to only 128 cues.

Bob L

Yes, that is a good point. However if you're using another product to control SAC or SAW then direct access to a particular cue can be very important. It means the difference during technical rehearsals of having to reset multiple pieces of software and/or hardware each time you stop and want to go back or just jumping to the correct cue in your master show control software or hardware. If you have programmed in direct access to each cue, then you don't have to figure out what cue should be in standby in multiple devices. You jump in and go and the rest of the device will follow along.

This can also be important during a performance if for any reason a cue needs to be skipped. If you've programmed in direct access to each cue, rather than a generic "GO next cue", then it's easy for a single operator to skip ahead or fall back. If they have to watch three or four or more cue lists and make sure they are all in the correct spot, then they will likely get out of sync if they need to jump ahead or the like.

Depends on where you want to spend your time. Spend it early in the process making the programming a bit more complex, or spend it later in the process jumping around in multiple cue lists with multiple devices, getting them all in the proper place when the director wants to stop and pick it up from someplace in the middle of the show. I tend to gravitate toward the first option whenever possible.

It would be great if someday you could assign actual Cue Numbers in SAC and SAW and it would respond to MIDI Show Control Commands. The cue limit numbers there are almost ridiculously large and it provides a TON more flexibility. Plus, you don't have to dick around with crap like, well MIDI note number X is my Cue 50. You just call it.. Cue 50 and it knows what Cue 50 is supposed to do.

Anyway, it works well now. Just saying that there are limitations and those should be kept in mind, even if the number of users that actually see those as limitations is extremely small.