QSC K12 vs. KW122 vs. JBL PRX712M

[Soundguy]

Considering recommending a pair of either of these to a client for use as floor wedges. I've heard them both on sticks with program material, but it's been a while, so don't remember the details. Just throwing the JBL in the mix as a similarly priced option ... although I've heard about some bad experiences with other PRX models.

Any experience or opinions with either of the QSC ... or the JBL? Are they rugged? Will be used in a small club as wedges and perhaps side fills.

Soundguy

[airickess]

I would recommend the K12s. Very good, versatile powered box that can take a good amount of beating and still sound good. It's also very efficient, meaning they can become very loud without limiting. The KW122 is basically the wooden version, so it is heavier. I've not compared the sound side-by-side so I cannot comment on which one sounds better. Both come with EQ options via a three-way switch on the back, including vocal boost, normal (flat) and deep bass (for those DJs and hip-hop artists that need exaggerated low end without distortion). They can accept line or mic level and signal can be daisy-chained between cabinets.
If I remember correctly, the only downside to using them as monitors is that they only sit well on one side, so if you want to give dual monitors to someone you cannot effectively set them so the 12-inch drivers sit inside together (unless you come up with some sort of shim).

[RBIngraham]

The KWs do sound a bit better than the K series. Just like most wood cabinets sound better than plastic cabinets. But I have to say the K series from QSC is probably the best sounding plastic speaker I've ever heard. Well maybe some of the small portable Genelecs, but that's another animal entirely and I can't remember if they are plastic or what they are made of really.

Anway, I have not used any of them as a wedge. So I can not really speak to that usage.

I have not used the PRX series at all. But if they are like any of the other JBL Eon series I wouldn't bother. I find the nicer Eons (the newer 5 series stuff) sound OK but they are very noisy when idle and not just hiss but odd computer like whine sometimes even. I would stay away unless you get a deal on them. I guess in a noisy environment it probably wouldn't be an issue.

[Donnie Frank]

Considering recommending a pair of either of these to a client for use as floor wedges. I've heard them both on sticks with program material, but it's been a while, so don't remember the details. Just throwing the JBL in the mix as a similarly priced option ... although I've heard about some bad experiences with other PRX models.

Any experience or opinions with either of the QSC ... or the JBL? Are they rugged? Will be used in a small club as wedges and perhaps side fills.

Soundguy

The largest production company in the state of N.M. uses K12's for monitors for their "B" system. I have a pair of K12's and they're pretty incredible. In addition I have a pair of K8's, which are equally incredible. I couldn't be happier with them. I was able to register the 6 year warranty for all 4 speakers. A quick peruse of the JBL website nets this:

What is the Limited Warranty on JBL Professional products?
An electronic version of our warranty statement is available here (http://www.jblpro.com/pub/technote/warranty.pdf) (Adobe Acrobat (http://www.jblpro.com/acroinfo.htm), 90kB). The warranty on JBL Professional loudspeaker products (except for enclosures) remains in effect for five years from the date of the first consumer purchase. JBL Amplifiers are warranted for three years from the date of original purchase. Enclosures and all other JBL products are warranted for two years from date of original purchase.


The QSC warranty is fully transferable via the QSC website. If the original owner never registered it, you get the full 6 years. FWIW, I've used all 4 speakers as mains, monitors and the K12's as a bass amp. I told the bass player to "beat the **** out of it," and he did. It takes a licking....

[Eric White]

Is this maybe a typo on the JBL speaker? Maybe a SRX712M?

As Richard stated, the newer JBL EON ( the 500 series) sound really good, but only at low to medium volumes. Despite the ratings, the run out of gas quickly and lack any headroom. The Pre 300-500 EON series was called an EON G2- they rocked. The newer EON's also have a tendancy to shred the horns. I have fixed a ton of them from guitar center where customers purchased /damaged/returned them. I have heard only heard the QSC K12 so my evaluation is limited. They did sound good in vocal applications.

[ssrsound]

PRX are a notch above the EON. But I don't particularly like their sound, so I'd still tend toward the QSC.

I use K10s as monitors all the time. They sound great. Whether you go with a K or a KW really depends on the application. I feel like the KW do sound richer, like a wood cabinet would. But they're heavier. So if they're gonna stay in the venue -- probably go with the KW. If they're gonna travel a lot, probably the K.

These won't blow away a Microwedge. But they do *really* well for the price... much better than anything else I've found in that range.

[connifboudoin]

I own 16 of the QSC HPR122i. I use them in two different setups for wedges. 8 in each trailer. They have served me well. I have had an intermitent problem with one and a magnet come apart on the mid driver in the other. QSC made both good under warranty. That is why I use the QSC. The support is very good. I pay for a new part, send the old part back and they have refunded me both times. I still would have gladly paid the repair on both. These are really good sounding wedges and I have used them for mains in smaller gigs as well.

I have heard and used all the speakers the op has asked about. The K series (plastic speaker) is more geared toward the DJ/smaller gigs. They have connections on the back that others don't have for hooking RCA connections as well as others. My HPR's only had the XLR. As for sound they don't sound as good are as loud I find but are a really good speaker. The KW is closer to the HPR. Wood design like the HPR and tone wise sound a lot a like. Like everyone said the K series is lighter. Not a bad thing if that matters to you.

The JBL cabs are nice too. The problem with the JBL is that the angle is all wrong for a wedge. It tends to shoot at your knees instead of your ears. You would need to build some kind of wedge to go underneath them to use as a wedge. Not a bad sounding speaker and they get really loud. I have also heard that some people have had problems with them but who knows how much they were abused. I would put the JBL and KW 122 closer together. They are similar cabs although they both have their own unique sound. I find the JBL to be a bit harsh on the high end the KW a little warmer.

All in all if you are looking for a speaker that is light and has different connections the K series is the one to go for. A more pro line look at the KW or JBL. For monitors I would choose the KW everytime. Just me.

Another speaker to look at is the Yamaha new powered 12. A similar cab to the KW with a 12 and 2 inch driver. Another loud box.

All these cabs to do not do the reverse thing where you have can have a matching left right pair. They don't sound bad when using in pairs but not as nice as a matching set.

Just my humble opinion and nothing more. :)

Thanks

[Mattseymour]

Randy Hyde has had problems with the PRX. A friend of mine bought a pair and one died very quickly (definitely no abuse).

I think there are some quality issues with them. Perhaps they've hired Behringer's QC guys.

[Soundguy]

Is this maybe a typo on the JBL speaker? Maybe a SRX712M?


Yes, it was. It should have read PRX612M. The SRX series is a better choice, but are not powered, and are substantially more expensive when adding in the cost of an amp.

Soundguy

[RandyHyde]

Considering recommending a pair of either of these to a client for use as floor wedges. I've heard them both on sticks with program material, but it's been a while, so don't remember the details. Just throwing the JBL in the mix as a similarly priced option ... although I've heard about some bad experiences with other PRX models.

Any experience or opinions with either of the QSC ... or the JBL? Are they rugged? Will be used in a small club as wedges and perhaps side fills.

Soundguy

I assume you meant PRX612m?

There are two problems with the PRX612m:
1) It doesn't have the correct angle for a floor wedge unless your performers ears are attached to their knees. Granted, you can fix this with a 2x4, but why not get a floor wedge with the appropriate wedge angle to begin with?
2) Given my problems with PRX 625 and 635 cabinets, I put a "hold" on recommending any PRX gear right now.

I just got back my PRX 625 cabinets from JBL (3 out of 4 died within 8 hours of use). We'll see how the repaired units do. However, having 3 out of 4 amps die on me within 8 hours of operation (new units) is not a good sign for this line.

One of my sound guys has a couple of KW122 cabinets. I used them in place of my PRX 625 (as delay stacks) while the 625 cabs were in the shop. They sound okay. My only complaints with the KW122 cabinets are

1) They're big and heavy for a 12" two-way speaker
2) They aren't amazingly loud (of course, my experience was using them as delay stacks for a 50,000-watt SRX-based FOH system and the delay stacks were "only" about 150-200 feet from the stage [160ms delay]; you could hear them for about 30-40 feet and then the SRX volume overtook them)

The KW122 has a 75 degree coverage angle (horz and vert).
PRX 612m has a 90hx50v degree (which becomes 50vx90h when laid on its side); 90h is a bit wide for a monitor -- you'll be stepping on other monitor zones if you have several monitors on a small stage. The KW122 75-degree uses a constant-directivity horn and the HF drops off dramatically beyond the 75 degrees. This means you can splay two of them really well when you need wider than 75 degree coverage (e.g., when not being used as a floor monitor); with the PRX612 and it's 90-degree coverage, splaying (or cross-firing) them isn't as effective. I suspect that the KW122 will throw farther, though I wasn't at all impressed by the distance when I used them as delay stacks.

KW122 are a *lot* heavier and bigger than the PRX612. But, again, the 612 cabs are not practical as monitors without some sort of wedge device to change their angle.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde

[Soundguy]

The floor wedge angle problem has eliminated the JBL PRX from this list of options, as the client needs stage monitors.

So, between the KW122 and K12, any comparisons? I know the difference is wood vs. ABS plastic, but any sound quality or performance observations? Not much data available regarding any differences inside the box, but the power rating and drive description is the same.

Soundguy

[soundchicken]

The floor wedge angle problem has eliminated the JBL PRX from this list of options, as the client needs stage monitors....
Soundguy


yeah, wth were they thinking on that whole 612m design?

[Donnie Frank]

Yes, it was. It should have read PRX612M. The SRX series is a better choice, but are not powered, and are substantially more expensive when adding in the cost of an amp.

Soundguy

I beat the crap out of my SRX712m's @ 1800 watts each. Use them as mains (one a side for indoor rock-n-roll bands) or monitors (have 8 of them). Was able to get every cabinet for $700ish on eBay. Definitely a quality speaker and one I use as a benchmark for other speaker comparisons. I've yet to A/B the SRX712m's and the K12's. That's on my list...

[Donnie Frank]

The floor wedge angle problem has eliminated the JBL PRX from this list of options, as the client needs stage monitors.

So, between the KW122 and K12, any comparisons? I know the difference is wood vs. ABS plastic, but any sound quality or performance observations? Not much data available regarding any differences inside the box, but the power rating and drive description is the same.

Soundguy

When I used the K12 as a bass guitar cabinet, the bass player complained that there wasn't enough "oomph" to them. I took that to mean "not enough bottom end," so engaged the DEEP setting. Problem solved.

As floor wedges I generally high-pass them for vox and run them full range for instruments. I have used a single K12 as a floor wedge for the loudest drummer on the planet (full range), and he had no complaints. I got the kick so loud in his wedge he asked me to turn it down. And this guy is a LOUD drummer.

As mains I have used them with one of my bands recently at class reunion. It was roughly 50' x 100' room and the pair of K12's high-passed were killer. This is for a balls-to-the-wall rock-in-roll band. The subs were powered Mackies (I think - guitar players) and were more useful as a stand for my K12 than anything. I coupled them on one side to no avail. Worthless, but I digress....

I have yet to use them as mains as an audio engineer. This is really my final acid test. But as monitors they are very loud and very clear with almost no feedback issues.

[Soundguy]

Thanks everyone for your input. I recommended the SRX 712M on the high end, which will require additional expense for amps, and the KW 122 and K 12 on the lower end of the price spectrum.

Of course, at the end of the conversation he told me he was going to try and find a "sponsorship" for his club ... as if a manufacturer selling millions of dollars of audio gear is going to need a funky bar as a marketing tool.:rolleyes:

We'll see how that goes.

Soundguy

[safa]

Just to throw another similarly priced beast in the mix, take look at DAS Audio Avant 12A . I am happy user of those for almost two years, they are well made in Spain, reliable and very nice sounding (I have even theit Avant 15A and Avant 118A and never had an issue with them).