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mr_es335
09-21-2012, 09:01 PM
Hello,

I have an acquaintance who is considering putting together a SAC rig for me to use for live playing. As many have had so much success using SAC in a live mixing environment, why not use it for a live guitar rig environment. Well, it sounds better than I ever imagined!

I have an older Boogie Mark II and a re-worked '59 es335 - thus the handle - even though Larry Carlton is the "true" Mr. es335! Well, I seriously believe that I can retire my Boogie - I will keep the guitar though.

What is replacing the Boogie? Scuffham Amps! There is nothing out there like it - for the quality or for the price. Working with SAC and Scuffham over the past four days, the combination of SAC and Scuffham is absolutely incredible. Man...it feels like you are working with a real amplfier.

With SAC and Scuff (or is Scuff and SAC) - it has brought a real pleasure to playing guitar again. I am really looking forward to getting back on the road.

Both Bob and Mike Scuffham should be congratulated! And thanked too.

Paul Henry
09-22-2012, 04:47 AM
Glad you got it to work. What's your configuration?

mr_es335
09-22-2012, 08:17 AM
Hello,

Guitar --> DI (ART dPDB) --> ADA8000 --> RME HDSP 9652/Lenovo M55 (8807-93U) --> Behringer B212D x 2.

Load is around 30%, using the default sample rate and resolution.

Mike Scuffham is correct regarding the input levels - as high as possible before getting to S-Gear. I have never used a DI before, but it did make a difference. The input trim on the ADA8000 is set at 3 o'clock. From there I can work with S-Gear very well.

Hope this helps.

dbarrow
09-23-2012, 08:38 PM
SAC plus the Axe-FX II from Fractal Audio Systems. The Axe-FX is like the "SAC" of guitar rigs:

http://fractalaudio.com/

operationwhat
09-25-2012, 01:15 AM
Just use these plugins,connect midi and you'll be ok!

https://sites.google.com/site/nickcrowlab/

http://vstdatabase.blogspot.com/2011/02/kefir.html

and you ad some tube and output transformer emultion vst plugins, than EQ it.... make your own CAB impulses or whatever, and you will never think of spending money on fractal :D

mr_es335
09-25-2012, 06:24 AM
Hello,

Tried it, did not care for it.

Most of these amp sims seem great for "crunch"...but at 58...I am all "crunched out"!

S-Gear can do that as well...but it does a whole lot more too.

PS: I used S-Gear last evening for approximatey 2 hours and no slipped buffers at all!

dbarrow
09-25-2012, 07:27 AM
The Axe-FX isn't a plugin. It's a hardware unit with two SHARC processors. I own a 68 Plexi Marshal, Fender Twins, Mesa Tremoverb, and may others and the Axe-FX sounds like them all, plus has pretty much any FX you have ever heard. You should at least try one and listen closely. There are many Youtube videos, but try it in person. The Edge, Alex Lifeson. Lady Gaga, and many other top bands have found out about them, but you don't hear that much hype. They just work and replace LOTS of gear with a simple system that can replicate just about any setup.

Paul Henry
09-25-2012, 07:41 AM
The AxeFx is definitely state of the art as far as modeling technology goes, it's also hugely back-ordered and a little pricey at $2200.00.

Jeff Scott
09-25-2012, 08:30 AM
How does the Scuffman compare with POD Farm / POD HD500 or similiar Line 6 controllers....?

dbarrow
09-25-2012, 01:02 PM
The AxeFx is definitely state of the art as far as modeling technology goes, it's also hugely back-ordered and a little pricey at $2200.00.
It was well worth it. I waited for months to get mine and it superseded my expectations by a huge margin. I have tried all the other plugins, etc. It blows them away. Sure real amps can't be beat on a certain level, but the convenience of being able to plug in and get a sound that's 99***37; of a real amp without having to move mics around, constant tweaking, etc. and it has over 80 amps in there. You can save any combination as a preset. I have the real amps sitting a few feet away in the studio and I just use the Fractal because of the massive flexibility. You can add the price of the foot controller in there, as well and it's still well worth it. Most people spend that much getting their one rig just right anyway. I have sold off most of my stomp boxes and rack effects, but I kept the the tube amps, because they go up in value over time. There's a list of albums around recorded entirely with the Axe-FX somewhere, It's worth a listen.

Run through SAC in stereo, it's awesome. The level of control and repeatability is unmatched.

muzicman0
09-26-2012, 08:22 AM
How does the Scuffman compare with POD Farm / POD HD500 or similiar Line 6 controllers....?
I would also like to know this...looking at one of these for my church...

Adam Christopher
10-21-2012, 07:55 PM
I am new to the forum so this will be my first post. I might have some questions along the way so I want to help out where I can.

Anyways, I've tried probably 95% of all the amp sims out there. It's tough to make absolute recommendations without knowing more details other than you are looking to play in a Church band. Honestly, I think the Line 6 is a horrible choice. I am unimpressed with all of their products except for the Dl4 Delay. Whether you are talking first generation products or the latest HD models, they all have the same signature fizz, flat cab response, and absolutely no dynamics. If you really enjoy the feel of playing through a real amp, you will find yourself disappointed.

If you can set up a midi controller, I believe you may be find yourself satisfied with the Scuffham product provided that you bypass the internal cab sims. Frankly, the included IR cabs and Redwirez cabs imo are incredibly unrealistic. The preamp section is where the Scuffham shines. There are three models. The Duke is modeled after a Dumble. The Stealer is modeled after a Park amp model, which is very Marshallesque. The Jackal is modeled after a Soldano. For Church music, this should do fine but the high gain sounds leave something to be desired because it's incredible hard to get a scooped metal sound with the way all of the preamps are voiced.

The S-Gear product is good because you will get a nice dynamic response with the complex harmonics that almost all of the competition is missing. If you are looking for high gain options, I can direct you to alternatives. But if you are looking for low gain options (sounds like that's what you are going for) S-Gear will be a great option. Other commercial alternatives I can recommend are Overloud Th2 (has a great selection of amp sims) and Brainworx Rock Rack (only models a Marshall JCM 800, Mesa Boogie Rectoverb, and Engl 530). They are both more expensive and run you in the range of $200 give or take $50 each. You need to know that S-Gear is very CPU-intensive for what it is. Brainworx is the same. Th2 is very CPU-efficient but won't give the same level of dynamics and harmonics that those two will. However, Th2 blows away the competition for high gain sounds.

Other Popular Commercial Alternatives:

Guitar Rig - thin, 2d-sounding, harsh
Peavey Revalver - very fizzy, boxy sounding
Amplitube - extremely fizzy, unrealistic mids
Waves - very metallic sounding, harsh, lacking in dynamics
Studio Devil - muddy, veiled sounding
Audiffex AmpLion - nasal sounding, boxy, harsh
Kuassa Amp - everything sounds the same, lacking in presence
Magix Vandal - great dynamics but thin, doesn't model existing amps
ACMEBAR GIG - decent but doesn't sound completely realistic, can be harsh at times

Hardware:

Kemper – utilizes a new proprietary technology that captures snapshots of various sounds, fantastic dynamics and response (although not as much punch as the real thing), more realistic than either software or other hardware modelers), no onboard effects, allows library sharing of various snapshots, sounds maybe a tad under 95% of the real deal (doesn’t sound quite as alive or punchy as a real amp but the color and dynamics are there), It's a bit expensive

Fractal Audio Axe various iterations – Preamp can be designed to very realistically capture the color of real preamps, has a punch that other modelers don’t have, not the most dynamic, excels more for high gain, sounds a bit thin and lacking in dynamics for lower gain sounds, S-Gear has better dynamics but Fractal sounds more like a real amp, excellent onboard effects that are absolutely studio quality, It's a bit expensive

Digidesign Eleven – tried it, it was ok but didn’t blow me away, was expensive for what it is
Digitech – The Marshall and Vox models are decent, the fenders are too thin, and the high gains aren’t too realistic, effects are unimpressive
Zoom – Even with the preamp tubes and latest models, not the most dynamic, has a signature metallic sound that is hard to dial out, effects are unimpressive
Rocktron – great onboard effects, preamps, let’s just say they fell behind the curve while their counterparts improved leaps and bounds, you’re better off getting an older model just for the effects if you want to go this route

Free:

The Great/Good

Simulanalog Guitar Suite (from the creators of Overloud Th2 before they went commercial) - This has a great Fender Twin Reverb and JCM 900 model. The simulation includes a cab sim that cannot be disengaged unless you go to the Guitarampmodeling website and pickup Alu's custom vst. However, if you like to keep things simple, you can get good results.
Ignite - Soldanoish Sound Distortion Channel, Fenderish Cleans, excellent dyanmics, excellent sound
TSE - Hands down most realstic high gain sounds, great dynamics, great sound, Models a 5150, Engl E530, 5150/Rectifier Hybrid

OK
Lepou - Does an Engl Powerball, Rectifier, Soldano SLO, Hybrid amp of a Plexi/JCM, and a Bogner Ectasy - honestly I'm only impressed with the Hybrid of a Plexi/JCM. His pack is touted as the best of the free but I was never that impressed. Most of the models to me sound pretty harsh or muddy and have a very small sweet spot. To me, the Hybrid Marshall amp is by far the most usable and can sound great with the right amount of tweaking.
Juicy77 - Modeled after a Soldano - good dynamics, decent sound, can be a bit muddy
ACMEBARGIG – somewhat harsh, decent but doesn't sound completely realistic
Dirthead - Modeled on an original design but purportedly inspired by an Engl
and the Mesa Mark Series - good dynamics, decent sound, can be a bit muddy
Nick Crow - OK sound, not the best dynamics, can be muddy

Freeamp - don't waste your time
Aradaz - same developer as Kuassa - just not impressed
Wurr Gree amp - don't waste your time

Best Cab Sims:

Sperimental Pack - need to register at Guitarampmodeling or use Aradaz OURCABINET that has impulses from the sperimental pack preloaded (I love this one)
God's Cabs for Mesa

To add guitar cabinets, you need a wrapper such as Lepou Lecab 1/2 or SIR Reverb. There are other programs that can load impulses as well. You add an impulse response (wave file) to the wrapper to make it work. If you want to keep it simple, just use OURCABINET. It has the impulses preloaded in a vst, or the Simulanalog Guitar Suite, which has a cab sim attached as part of the sound.

What I recommend:

1) You don't mind shelling out some cash – Kemper if you want the most realistic sound or Axe fx if you like the sound and need onboard effects, don’t mind spending hours programming
2) You are willing to spend some but don’t have a huge budget: Th2 for high gain (lower CPU) with free Ourcabinet simulator for cab emulation, Brainworx for high gain (higher CPU, slighter higher cost) with free Ourcabinet simulator, S-Gear for lower gain sounds (higher CPU, relatively cheap) with free Ourcabinet simulator
3) You are broke – Choose from the selection of free vsts I mentioned above and use ourcabinet simulator on everything except for the free Simulanalog Guitar Suite, which has a cab sim embedded into the code


Let me know how this works!!!!

gdougherty
10-21-2012, 08:48 PM
Not a guitarist, but I've at least been impressed with the sound of the Recabinet impulse samples run through the Liquidsonics IR plugin I use for many of my reverb effects. Running bass through the Ampeg 8x10 impulse is phat and juicy if that's what you're looking for. I have the full Liquidsonics plugin so I can blend two different mics and positions to get the perfect sound.

Adam Christopher
10-22-2012, 12:09 AM
Re: Not a guitarist, but I've at least been impressed with the sound of the Recabinet impulse samples run through the Liquidsonics IR plugin I use for many of my reverb effects. Running bass through the Ampeg 8x10 impulse is phat and juicy if that's what you're looking for. I have the full Liquidsonics plugin so I can blend two different mics and positions to get the perfect sound.

Hey George! Nice add to the thread. Yeah, for bass that impulse is the bomb. It's interesting that you mentioned you are a bass player because I think his bass cab sims are the bomb but not as much of a fan of them for guitar cabs (not enough presence imo, almost sounds slightly out of phase). Also, Liquidsonics is pretty damn sweet. I hear its one of the best things you can put a static impulse through as opposed to the free Voxengo cab loader. Kind of like putting vsts through SAW sounds way better than through other DAWS. I hear though that putting them through reverb loaders, (depending on the impulse), you might have to play with the tails for a natural sound whether or not that makes cropping the wave . But Shane does a good job with that stuff from the get go.

By the way, it sounds like you have your own head. But if you are in a bind, and looking for a software alternative, I've heard nothing better than IGNITE amps SHB-1. It just came out a few months ago and it's free. Also, check out TSE BOD for an excellent Sansamp software clone for a DI sound. Those two will get you far in the software realm and are better than commercial alternatives (Softube Bass Amp Room based on a Hiwatt, Overloud Markbass, Magix Vanda, Amplitube SVT). Before the IGNITE and TSE free alternatives, my favorite was Magix Vandal, which I still find very useful.

Jeff Scott
10-22-2012, 06:25 AM
Adam: I've read your responses with interest. I haven't used a lot of the plugins you've mentioned so it's extremely informative.

I do use POD Farm Platinum and do own a POD XT Live and HD 500 which I use when playing live. I've owned Marshall , Mesa Boogie, Peavey, and Randall tube heads with various cabinet Combo's...and a Rockman rig during the 80's (ouch). I've tried various Tube preamps into Tube power amps of all shapes and sizes.

The problem then is the same problem now....Volume vs. Tone. On very few occasions in my Live playing career were we able to crank the amps to obtain the response and tone they were built for. It's always been a fight to find the right balance. And then ther's consistency from night to night. The tube amps I've owned rarely sounded the same night to night. Maybe it's hearing / perception whatever...but I have had nothing but consitency since i changed to the POD style processors. My band mates love the tone....other musicians at our gigs rave about the guitar tone (as well as the sound of the overall SAC PA system....). People Dance and drink / have a good time. We get paid by the promoter (always a good thing...). I can get my Guitar rig in and out of the club in a few minutes. Hey..it works for me !
I don't know what your background is....sounds like a lot of Studio..maybe? But playing small clubs and the like... the 50 watt tube amps just don't cut it. I'm not in any place to be hauling around several Half stacks to a gig!

Now...there are some great Attenuators available these days that are able to capture the tone and response of the Tube amp outputs. That may very well be a game changer for using these amps live. But I'd be spending 10's of thousands of $$$ to get the equivalent of my POD floor boards. For studio work....maybe the difference is a deal breaker. I haven't had a lot of experience with that. But I appreciate your insights. Sounds like you have Golden Ears!

Adam Christopher
10-22-2012, 08:19 AM
Hi Jeff! Thanks so much for your kind words. Truth be told, I'm fairly new to the engineering world but I've been playing guitar since I was a little kid (16+ years now). Also, a relative of mine when I was in high school had ties to the House of Blues, so I had the rare opportunity to hear world class blues players (including John Lee Hooker) every weekend. I've also at least tried most amps on the planet (but was never able to get my hands on a Dumble). It has only been in the past year and a half that I've been getting into the engineering bit and now that i'm here I'm hooked!

I'm really glad to hear that you are finding a great tone from your POD. I have to admit that the HD series is a HUGE step up from their offerings back from the 1990s. The convenience and flexibility you can get from them is amazing and if you are getting a great sound, no need to change!

I absolutely can appreciate your concern on the Volume/Tone conundrum. If you are ever going the Attenuator route, you should know that they all slightly alter your tone. This comes down a bit more to taste rather than quality, but I prefer the the Bad Cat Leash, Ultimate Attenuator, Koch Loadbox, Weber Mass, DR Z Airbake, THD Hot Plate, and Marshall Power brake in that order. Long story short, the Bad Cat Leash preserves the tone the most but it never preserves it 1/1. Most of the others roll off your highs a lot and squeeze the mids (which can be the life of your tone for cutting through the mix live). I am quite sure there are a handful of other attenuators out there and you may find one or two better than discontinued Bad Cat Leash. But my overall thoughts are, it's annoying having to lug a huge cab and head around and then yet another box just to get more of the tube saturation at usable levels. If you have a huge budget for a road crew then you would have less to worry about. And then it's hard to find a level of consistency because knobs move, break, etc...

The other popular alternative is finding smaller-sized amps and cranking them. But I've found that they just don't have the same punch as their larger counterparts and don't sound quite the same. The biggest reason is that you will find the 50-watt versions of 100-watt amps never have the exact tube configuration and so you won't get the full tone as the 100-watts when cranked.

If you are happy with your set up, I say no need to change. And that's a huge plus that not only are you pleased with your own tone, you are getting great feedback from others (always the real litmus test!)

So since you are getting the results you are, I would only add one recommendation if you are looking for a "change" or if you are looking for a real alternative to getting rid of your cab.

Here it is: grab a Kemper if you are willing to pay the price and then pickup my "secret weapon", the Blackstar Tube Boost.

Here's the lowdown: The Kemper is pricey $2000 but is capable of giving you all the tones you'll ever need and ever want if you know how to use it. I'll tell you why. The Kemper has dynamics that I haven't seen from Axe FX, Line 6, Korg, Vox, Zoom, Rocktron don't have. Also, the snapshots profile real amps. You aren't just modeling amps with algorithms. You are getting realstic snapshots of the actual color and gain staging of real amps. And really, they sound AND feel "just like" the real thing. They also don't have that digital fizz sound that a lot of amp modelers have. They aren't the real thing of course and I would say are missing 5% of what you can from a real amp. They sound a "little bit less lively" and feel "a little bit less lively".

But that's where my Secret Weapon comes in. Put a Blackstar Tube Boost in front of the preamp, and voila! Now all of a sudden you get back that 5% of what is missing without changing the base tones. I use this with my vst amp modelers (that I prefer because of flexibility and my bedroom apartment setup that is not proper for a studio environment). And I will also tell you why this works. The Blackstar Tube Boost is fairly transparent as it is not a tube amp persay but a boost pedal so you won't change the tone. But there's magic by just passing a real analog sound in the signal in the front of the preamp section and the tube gives you back the life that is missing. Ever wonder why modelers can sound like the real thing but sound flat? They can capture the vibe but can't capture the liveliness. I'll tell you why. It's because they are missing the harmonic content. It's like the difference between listening to a recording and hearing it live. Also, the tube boost gives you a natural tube saturation and compression that gives you a much more dynamic feel. So it remedies the lack of liveliness and the dynamic response that is missing and gets you to more like 98.5% of the real thing!

Also, what is cool about the Kemper is that the cab modeling section is excellent. We've discussed cab impulses before, but they aren't quite there when it comes to sounding as good as the real thing. Much like amp modelers, they can sound somewhat "flat". That is because they are static impulses and don't respond to how hard you dig into your guitar. They don't have that airiness that you get from real cabs because they can't push air like the real speakers. Also, the hardware Palmer PDI from the 80's or Microcab can't quite do this either. They response a little better than cab impulses dynamically but don't sound quite as much like real cabs. Eddie Van Halen once played through Palmers live but this didn't last.

With the Kemper, the snapshots give you the most realistic cab modeling (that is playable live). I won't go on a tangent but if you are looking to replace cabs in studio environment (you can get a sampled dynamic response from an inexpensive technology (around $35) called Nebula that can only be used on a computer. The Nebula is VERY realistic (95% close to the real thing) but can't get be played live because it utilizes a rediculous amount of kernels that makes the latency unusable in all cases. The Kemper is the closest thing and in my own humble opinion is good enough (because the profiling technology is extremely accurate for capturing the tone and dynamic response) to be a viable alternative for micing up real amps.

Playing through this setup, you can just lug the lunchbox-sized Kemper around with the small tube boost pedal in front and have a million REALISTIC tones in a box that can replace BOTH your head and cab! I didn't even get into the part that many high-regarded amps are preloaded into a stock unit you will buy and there are a bunch of free ones online from generous users that are willing to swap their own snapshots. For further selection, you can also buy snapshots for very little cost.

Obviously, you will be missing the pedals but my favorite compact effects unit is my TC Nova System. It's a very compact pedal unit with separate buttons to use for my distortion box, clean boost, compression, chorus, reverb, tremolo, delay etc.... It's compact enough to save a ton of space on a board and give you excellent sound quality. That runs for about $500. And the Blackstar runs for a little less than $200.

So if in summary if you put a Blackstar Tube Boost in front, you will gain the liveliness, tube compression, and dynamics modelers don't have. You want to dial up the gain "to push the tube a little". Also, I dial up the Tone knob a bit to get the desirable amount of presence. Don't run it all the way hot though because you don't want your sound to sound like it has no headroom. This will give you the saturation and punch you just can't get without cranking a 100-watt stack (which is totally unpractical). Then you use the Kemper or whatever else for the tone and volume. Now you will be able to get punch, volume, and tone provided that you can find an optimal setting on your PA. And if you have a PA with some headroom, you might even be able to replace the cabs for live use with the Kemper, which is the only thing I've seen that is almost as good as cabs. In fact, you could even easily do a handful of snapshots from your own cab and then sell it if you have no further use. Then can maintain your own sound and not lose sleep over back problems.

With that setup and SAC, you'll have the most pro sounding portable setup around.

Enough of my rant. If you have any other questions, don't hesitate. Hope that helps!

Jeff Scott
10-22-2012, 09:58 AM
Very cool information..very inspiring. Makes me want to try to convince my better half / Spouse that "we" need a Kemper!

Thanks for your insights.

hclague
10-22-2012, 09:11 PM
Free:

The Great/Good

Simulanalog Guitar Suite (from the creators of Overloud Th2 before they went commercial) - This has a great Fender Twin Reverb and JCM 900 model. The simulation includes a cab sim that cannot be disengaged unless you go to the Guitarampmodeling website and pickup Alu's custom vst. However, if you like to keep things simple, you can get good results.


Best Cab Sims:

Sperimental Pack - need to register at Guitarampmodeling or use Aradaz OURCABINET that has impulses from the sperimental pack preloaded (I love this one)


Hi Adam

I tried downloading the Simulanalog Guitar Suite but when i unzipped the file and copied the .dll's into the SAC VST folder I got an error message when I tried to load one into a SAC Channel The Error message was " Trouble Accessing Plugin". Have you actually tried this suite in SAC? If so, do you have an alternative site to download the working dll's?

Also where can i download the OurCabinet simulator vst?

Thanks

Hal

Adam Christopher
10-23-2012, 02:05 AM
Very cool information..very inspiring. Makes me want to try to convince my better half / Spouse that "we" need a Kemper!

Thanks for your insights.

Hey Jeff, you are very welcome. I hear you on the better half aspect. Again, if you are happy with your setup, that's what matters. If you ever decide to go another route, maybe someday you can make the argument that the portability of the Kemper will be good for your health :). Anything else you are curious about feel free to ask away. I may not have all the answers but will try to help in any way I can.


Hi Adam

I tried downloading the Simulanalog Guitar Suite but when i unzipped the file and copied the .dll's into the SAC VST folder I got an error message when I tried to load one into a SAC Channel The Error message was " Trouble Accessing Plugin". Have you actually tried this suite in SAC? If so, do you have an alternative site to download the working dll's?

Also where can i download the OurCabinet simulator vst?

Thanks

Hal

Hey Hal,

For Ourcabinet, Here is the link.

http://aradaz.blogspot.com/2009/06/our-cabinet-simulator-updated-to-v107.html

GUI-less
8 Cabinet Simulations (Cabinet Impulse Responses made by Alu, Dimi & Noarin)
2 Cabinet Simultaneously
Sample delay for each cabinet
44100 - 96000 Hz sample rate Support
Double internal processing

Off the top off my head, I believe it is two Mesa Boogie (recto-style and oversized), a Marshall 1960s cab, a Soldano, a Diezel, Carvin Legacy, Engl, and Bogner. You can blend the sounds into one cab but I usually don't do this and I might worry about phasing issues if I did so.

With regards to the Simulanalog Guitar Suite, I don't know what to say. It has worked in every other host I tried. Perhaps, if you download something like SAVI host or an effects chainer like Multifx vst (its French but easy to figure out), you can load one of those and then load the Gsuite after. That would be my suggestion as a workaround.

It is possible that the problem stems from the fact that Simulanalog Guitar Suite has no GUI? Ourcabinet also has no GUI for the matter so hopefully that's not the case.

I can send you a PM and send you my file. I had to check the license agreement first. But obviously no guarantee mine will work with your setup either.

A bit more background. The Simulanalog Guitar Suite is basically the free beta version of what later become Overloud Th1. The most current product is Overloud Th2, which is currently priced at $197 and they also sell Th1 Triode $47. Th2 is the whole package with a great amp selection while Th1 is only a 65 Fender Reverb, Mesa Boogie Rectifier, and JCM 900. If you are interested in either package, I can say that the reverbs are excellent for algorithmic reverbs. They are inspired by Lexicon reverbs. The delay is decent as well. However, aside from the Boss Super Overdrive emulation, I am not a huge fan of the boost pedals or the modulation effects included in the Overloud package. Unfortunately, I think most of the modulation effects out there in vst format aren't that great.

If you are looking for a digital boost pedal, the best emulations, free or commercial are from TSE 808 (The Serina Experiment). It is copy of the Maxon/Ibanez 808 or Alu's IGNITE TS999, a custom tube screamer-style pedal. Added this to the front of the signal chain can give you extra gain and distortion to play with, tightens up the sound, and gives you a more realistic presence. Both of those pedal emulations are free if you look up either the The Serina Experiment and IGNITE amps web site.


With GSuite again, you have cannot disengage the cab section without Alu's special vst. So don't try to use Ourcabinet with Gsuite unless you are able to disengage the cab section. I think that special vst to disengage the cab section might be on the Aradaz website. I can't remember. But for Gsuite, the cab sounds fine stock, especially the Fender version. Also, as good as Ourcabinet is, if you have followed this thread, I have to admit you might be missing out on is that the cab impulse technology is static so it won't sound as lively as playing through a real cabinet.

Since I have Th2 (also included in Th1), I add the cab section after my preamp section, disengage the cab itself, and enable their proprietary RESPIRE technology that when used right before or right after the cab, I then get a very slight improvement in airiness that is missing. The improvement is very subtle but using little CPU power so I use it all the time. But its not worth buying the package for that technology for such a subtle improvement. There is also a free CAB ENHANCER plugin on the ACMEBARGIG website aimed at the same idea, but it colors your sound and can add a slight phase shift.

If you were recording for studio work, you could also consider buying NEBULA 2 for about $35-$40 USD from AcusticaAudio and then adding either a free cab emulation you can find somewhere like Kalthallen or AE Aeternus or buy a commercial pack for $10 each from Ownhammer. I will tell you that the Nebula technology is more realistic in how cabs sound and respond to your playing but they are unusable in a live setting because of the latency. I actually think the Ourcabinet cabs are simpler, better sampled and recorded, and can sound better but the Nebula cabs available are a closer representation to real cabs because the technology is better. Setting up Nebula is a pain though but if you are willing to go through the hassle, the technology is fabulous for studio work. You can get sampled hardware EQ, console emulation, reverb, select modulation efects, and console emulation for Nebula.

In fact, a few of the Nebula developers have already implemented the new ACQUA technology that allows you to use Nebula is vst format. In any case, I highly recommend you check out Michael Angel's (www.cdsoundmaster.com) free (but limited) Nebula vsts (includes a sampled Neve 1081 eq, Millenia eq (my fav), and tape saturation) If you add any of these to the end of your chain for studio work, you will gain the harmonic content that only real hardware imparts. You can get a little bit of nonlinear distortion and your recording becomes more alive. These tools unfortunately aren't usable in a live environment.

As for specific recommendations, it would help if I knew what you were going for exactly. It sounds like you are looking at live use but I don't really know your style of music and the amps you like. For example, if you are just looking for a nice clean amp, the free IGNITE Anvil from Alu will give you a VERY nice chimey tone in the vein of fender. It is not as Fenderish as the GSuite Twin Reverb emulation, but it is in my opinion higher quality sound and as good sound period as any of the commercial alternatives with the exception of maybe the Kemper hardware. If you are going after the Marshall sound, you can also look up Lepou's Hybrit. As of yet, there are no good free AC30 emulations but you Brian Wampler has a free vst clone of his discontinued pedal that was supposed to be an AC30 in a pedal.
Back to Hybrit (a hybrid of a Marshall Plexi and JCM series). It can sound pretty good. However, this emulation has a bit more digital fizz than the others that I have recommended so you need to work (maybe using a bit of the SAC eq) to try to sweep out any of the digital artifacts for the most realistic sound. I am more of a high gain guy and I love the TSE X50 for a 5150 sound and the X40 (5150/Recto) hybrid.

If you are after effects, I am a bit shorter on suggestions because I've found some things like an octaver or a delay vst here and there that get the job done, but nothing I am blown away by. As far as commercial amp sims, I would rate the effects as follows:

Waves GTR3 - VERY HEAVY CPU usage but great effects
Overloud - Excellent reverb, good delays, i like the super overdrive pedal, decent by vst standards but nothing that blows me away
Guitar rig - usable fx, decent for vsts
Scuffham - the delay is ok, not overly impressed by the modulation, the leslie effect is cool but def not the real thing, too high CPU for the quality
Peavy Revalver - ok effects but nothing mind blowing, some of the impulse-based reverbs are cool but the impulse reverbs are high CPU
Amplitube - not that great in my opinion

I personally use the Waves effects but I bought Waves GTR3 on sale for $18 from Musicians Friend. Again, very high CPU usage and Waves has its own nagging proprietary licensing system so every time you open a DAW, it has to check that you are the owner. Also Nebula is coming up with new modulation effects that are realistic but not very tweakable at all, and unusable for live purposes.

Anyways, if you have any other questions, let me know.

AC

beatpete
10-24-2012, 07:30 AM
Slightly off topic, but anyone have any ideas on a good hardware cab sim?

Jeff Scott
10-24-2012, 08:06 AM
Slightly off topic, but anyone have any ideas on a good hardware cab sim?

Yea....Mesa Boogie 2 x 12 Open back on top half. :D

Adam Christopher
11-08-2012, 05:58 PM
Hey Gang,

For what it's worth, Scuffham just updated the latest version to 2.1 a few minutes ago. Just got the latest Scuffham newsletter. 2.1 will now feature RoomThing, an algorithmic reverb. You also may want to know that they are planning on increasing the price to $99 in January 2013 and that free updates are available until May 2013. Mikey also told me that that they finally announced that they are working on new amps as well. Hopefully, they'll be adding some of these before then :D

It started with just three amps (The Duke - Dumbler inspired, The Stealer - Park inspired (ala-Marshall), and Jackal-Soldano inspired

Then they added a delay, and then modulation (chorus/flanger), and now reverb. The samples posted on youtube of the algorithmic reverb actually sound pretty decent and range from all types to spring, room, hall, and various length plates.

Adam Christopher
11-10-2012, 12:55 PM
Hi Guys,

Hope all is well. Don't mean to beat the horse on this thread but I also stumbled across a link you might find very interesting. It's a comprehensive shootout between most of the Marshall amp sims. The only one that I can think of off the top of my head that I would have added is the Studio Devil version, which I think would have fallen somewhere above the middle but not at the top in the ratings.

http://jameswoodward.net/review/amp-simulator-shootout-70s-marshall/

The clips are all embedded in the page for easy and quick comparison. The great thing is that the author was pretty smart about keeping the same settings on all amps (bypassing cabs) and used recabinet for the cabs on all and the same post effects on all so that you are judging the amp section only. Very smart move I must say.

Also, the poll at the very bottom, there is a poll to vote on the most convincing marshall sound. As of now, there are 54 results so it does pass the minimum 30 (statistically meaningful threshold).

SPOILER ALERT: I would like to comment below so don't read further if you are looking to do the blind test.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
My own personal findings I found to be surprisingly similar to the author's notes as well as the overall poll results at the end. The first poll results don't mean as much because the voters did not have all of the options until more sims were added.

The poll has Scuffham and Softube tied with 13 votes each. As for my own comments, I find Scuffham to be the closest to the Marshall sound. Mike is credited as one of the lead developers of the famed Marshall JMP-1 preamp before. And I think he did a great job at nailing Marshall tones. If we are strictly speaking in terms of closest to Marshall sound, I would find the Softube Vintage Amp Room version to be second best. I think they did a great job of capturing the overall tone and vibe. However, Scuffham I believe takes the cake in tone, vibe, and behavior. By behavior I mean that when you push the volume, it breaks up in the right spot (like a real Marshall amp) and captures the dynamics properly. Softube doesn't have the same dynamic response and the author noted that it breaks up too quickly. Amazing that those are my exact findings and I agree with the author in his notes on many fronts. The Softube Vintage Amp Room is excellent at capturing tonality and vibe but not as much as the behavior. Same thing on their AC30 model. It has strikingly similar tonal qualities to the real thing but that breaks up too early. I have heard that a workaround for this too-early breakup issue is to stick a trim plugin somewhere in the chain but I don't know exactly if that would give the exact results you would want.

As for the others, the new Amplitube Slash models were somewhere near the top but not at the top. That's about where I would have expected them to land in the poll. There is a lot of positive buzz from the new models because IK is now implementing a new technology that sounds much more realistic than their past offerings. A few of their custom shop models implement their new proprietary modeling technology advances (including Amplitube Slash). While I agree they sound much better than the past and are much more usable, I don't believe them to be as realistic as the Scuffham imo.

As far as Line6 Amp Farm and Guitar Rig coming in last. I can't say I'm surprised. The amp farm package I tried many years ago (NOT to be confused with their new HD offerings, which have surprised me lately at how far they have come) models in my own opinion were fuzzy, overly distorted even on lower gain amp models and lacking dynamics across most of their amp models and I find the samples here no exception. But I want to comment that with their new technology Line 6 has come along way and their newer hardware models sound nothing like this. Heard some great Scorpions tones (nice Schenker and Uli Jon Roth tones) from a cover band using HD500 a few weeks ago. They got rid of a lot of the fuzz and improved on the dynamics and everything has a much more realistic presence. I think you can get very good tones from the HD versions and can definitely see how they could excel in live settings. So these comments here are not to be a generalized knock on Line 6 but specific to the older amp farm (not sure if the improved on amp farm more recently).

Interesting that the author noted how he had to turn down the presence on the Guitar Rig. This is consistent with my findings as well as I think Guitar Rig's sounds tend be overly thin or tinny. Even with the help of other plugs to thicken it out, I find it difficult to make the sound natural. I also own Waves GTR and would say I have many of the same comments for that as I have for Guitar Rig but I think some of the sounds are slightly better and more polished. With that said, I'm not a huge fan of either Guitar Rig of Waves GTR for the modeling technology. The irony is that I find that Waves and GTR have the best bundled effects that come with an amp sim but when comes to amp modeling, I think they come up short.

What really surprised me is that Revalver was near the top of the list. I am a lifelong Peavey fan (for me - Peavey, Soldano, or Mesa for preamp, Mesa or Splawn for cabs). And I don't think Revalver sounds as convincing as I would like it to be. I find it too easy to dial in boxy sounds and it takes way too much eq to dial them out and then its hard to get a natural tone. In fact, I think the tone in these clips when you compare the Softube vs. the Revalver, the Softube imo comes out as the clear winner of the two (though I still prefer Scuffham).

I also thought that the Overloud might come out slightly better but I don't think the Marshall sims are their strongest points anyways. I think the Soldano and Mesa models from the Overloud are fantastic. The Randall from the Overloud can also sound great with the right amount of tweaking. Having tried pretty much all the Mesas in real life, I find most of the Mesa models out there to be "off". But I find the Overloud Mesa model as well as Brainworx' rock rack Mesa to be excellent approximations. So if anything, my own conclusion is that James Woodward's is a fantastic study for amp sims but should be viewed as specific to Marshall models. I think that for higher gain sounds (Mesa, Peavey, Engl, Soldan, etc...) things will start to look much differently.

Anyways, that's my long rant for the day. I gave a lot of opinions and hope not to offend anyone as I don't mean to pontificate but rather express my own personal opinions. But at least you'll have some clips to come up with your own conclusions.

Look forward to reading posts from you guys as always;

AC

tomasino
11-11-2012, 09:09 AM
Hi Guys,
http://jameswoodward.net/review/amp-simulator-shootout-70s-marshall/

AC Cool little shootout. That guy put A LOT of work into it.
In the blind test, I voted for Scuffham.

The only thing I would add.. n' somebody else suggested this a long while ago on a different SAC Guitar Rig thread..
is to send the guitar signal OUT to a small personal stage monitor to blend in some real Feedback/Sustain.
I use a Mackie SRM150 for this.. works awesome. Launches your entire tone into a new realm.

Very good times.

Adam Christopher
11-11-2012, 10:20 AM
Cool little shootout. That guy put A LOT of work into it.
In the blind test, I voted for Scuffham.

The only thing I would add.. n' somebody else suggested this a long while ago on a different SAC Guitar Rig thread..
is to send the guitar signal OUT to a small personal stage monitor to blend in some real Feedback/Sustain.
I use a Mackie SRM150 for this.. works awesome. Launches your entire tone into a new realm.

Very good times.

tomasino, thanks for your input. That seems like a neat little trick. I still love my little SRM150;