Rush's "YYZ"

[snapper]

We have been rehearsing this tune for about a month now, and since we are a 5 piece and only three of us are actually playing for this song I figured it was just for fun. The other two band mates insist that we are getting too good at it :D to not play it live. That's all cool because it's really fun to play. So hear is my question. There are two keyboard parts, once in the beginning and once in the end. I'd like to be able to trigger those parts myself via a midi foot controller. But I dont have a synth that could to the parts, or know how to achieve an authentic voice. Does anyone know someone that could do this job for me(record the synth part) that I could use for this tune. It would need to be authentic(not sure if it was a minimoog or oberheim). Or could you point me to a freindly group that might be receptive to this task. I'd be willing to pay for the service.

Mike.

[Alan Lastufka]

Mike,

Try asking at www.northernsounds.com forum. There are many there that actually own the original vintage instruments and definetly have the talent.

[snapper]

It wouldnt have to be the original analog gear. A soft synth version would be fine too as long as it was close. But analog is cool too. I'll check the link, thanks.

Mike.

[mghtx]

Well, this thread sure did catch my attention. I love that old Rush music.

When you get everything together I'd love it if you recorded it and put up an mp3 of it. Or maybe on SAW radio.

I know Rush used some kind of bass/keyboard pedals then. And still do. I've got 20 year old guitar mags that I bet would tell but, it would take me days to go through them to find out. You should spend you time looking around the net on Rush fan sites. I bet in less than an hour you would find out.

Or try some keyboard forums.

[Craig Allen]

I don't think he can put it on SAW Radio due to copyright issues. If you could, I'd have already submitted my Pink Floyd Another Brick in the Wall cover.

[Westwind]

Mike,
I'm a fan of that old Rush Music too. I saw them at Radio City last August for their 30 year tour. They did 'YYZ'; sounded great. I have several vintage soft synth plugs, including Native Instruments Moog. I believe I might be able to help you out. :)
Todd
info@westwindmed.com

[Pedro Itriago]

Enjoy, that piece is such a riot to play...

If you're trying to re-create the sound found on the "moving pictures" studio recording, then the first synth part you hear is a oberheim ob-8 (not oberhiem eight voice). When doing live at that time, both Geddy & Alex had a moog taurus pedal and they used it to make this part live. This are single notes, so you can easily do it with a foot controller

The chords after the guitar solo are made with an oberheim ob-x, but you can make this patch with almost any synth, I used to do it with a crumar bit one or a korg ex-8000 or roland jv-80 or jv-1080. There's also a moog taurus playing a single note under those chords.

They made sevral variations later for different live tours, but I guess you're looking for this one.

BTW, thanks for making me remember

[Ian Alexander]

I don't think he can put it on SAW Radio due to copyright issues. If you could, I'd have already submitted my Pink Floyd Another Brick in the Wall cover.

Right now, I'm listening to a cover of Low Rider and I've heard Bob's Santana cover stuff on SSRN. Let's hear the Brick, unless there's some difference I don't understand.

[snapper]

I'm not teally interested in recording it, just want to pull it off live :D

So if I got these seperate parts as .wav files would I need mws to trigger their playback via a midi foot controller or is Saw capable of this already?

Mike.

[Craig Allen]

Right now, I'm listening to a cover of Low Rider and I've heard Bob's Santana cover stuff on SSRN. Let's hear the Brick, unless there's some difference I don't understand.
I would have thought that it wouldn't be applicable because of copyright issues. If Bob will consider it, I'll submit it. Bob, what do you think?

[brent]

Well, this thread sure did catch my attention. I love that old Rush music.

When you get everything together I'd love it if you recorded it and put up an mp3 of it. Or maybe on SAW radio.

I know Rush used some kind of bass/keyboard pedals then. And still do. I've got 20 year old guitar mags that I bet would tell but, it would take me days to go through them to find out. You should spend you time looking around the net on Rush fan sites. I bet in less than an hour you would find out.

Or try some keyboard forums.

I watched the Rio DVD again. They are great players. Love that stuff.

[snapper]

Could this be used to trigger playback of these pre-recorded parts?

http://www.tech21nyc.com/midimouse.html

Mike.

[Bob L]

There is no telling who will approve or dissaprove of the rights to play any song that is on SSRN.

There are lots of new recordings and productions of known songs currently being played. As long as the artists and authors of the material do not complain, things are good.

When someone decides they want to argue about it... I take it off...

The legal issues could be argued over for the next 10 lifetimes... all I am trying to do is offer up a chance for people to hear and enjoy music and recording techniques... I'm not here to enter into legal battles which no one ever wins except the lawyers.

Bob L

[Bob L]

SAWStudio can trigger regions using the Ctrl-Track with a midi keyboard... you can also use the MWS and plugins like LoopaZoid to trigger and playback wav files of any length.

For the most part you can use any sampler type plugin running standalone and trigger music sample cues with a midi keyboard.

You can also use a hardware sampler without involving the computer.

Bob L

[Yura]

I have 6 Rush songs of my own remixes (re-played, re-singed). Maybe somone interested. as about YYZ... I had no problems with that synths... :)

[snapper]

I'd just like to use the simplest approach to make the track start and stop while playing live. How would you do it if this was the only thing that needed to be remotely triggered to play.

Mike.

[Craig Allen]

There is no telling who will approve or dissaprove of the rights to play any song that is on SSRN.

There are lots of new recordings and productions of known songs currently being played. As long as the artists and authors of the material do not complain, things are good.

When someone decides they want to argue about it... I take it off...

The legal issues could be argued over for the next 10 lifetimes... all I am trying to do is offer up a chance for people to hear and enjoy music and recording techniques... I'm not here to enter into legal battles which no one ever wins except the lawyers.

Bob L
Fair enough - I just didn't want to bother submitting something that I thought may not be appropriate. I don't have a 192k mp3 of it right now, but I'll pull out the master and re-encode it and submit it over the weekend.

[SoundSuite]

I'd just like to use the simplest approach to make the track start and stop while playing live. How would you do it if this was the only thing that needed to be remotely triggered to play.

Mike.

Mike,

To pull this off the way I'll describe, you'll need:
SAW and MWS
MIDI port from SAW to External Keyboard or trigger (for control track)
SoftSynth to emulate 'sounds' you want

Basically, you are going to write the song parts into MWS, then use the control track to start / stop/ playback a different part...triggered by your note externally.

Here's how you can hookup:
Going from Pedro's post...
MWS Track1 = moog / vsti to MT1 to Out1
MWS Track2 = oberheim / vsti to MT2 to Out1
Write the notes in for the first piece of the song on each track.

Bring up the control track.
At the beginning of the piece, set a control point of 'Cue location / Play' with a trigger note of say, D3
At the end of the piece, set a control point of 'Stop / Cue Next'.

Now, give a gap after the stop / cue next control point, and write the second parts of the song you want to play.
At the beginning of the second part, place a contol point of 'Cue location / Play' with a trigger note of say, D4.
(you could also, set it for 'Cue location / Preload' and have it ready to hit spacebar on saw to start, instead of midi note.)

Following the above, you'd pipe the SAW's Out1 r&l to your FOH/monitor mixer, then hit C3 on the keyboard to start the first piece, stop at end and cue next piece, waiting for your C4 on the keyboard to actually play it.

In sumnation, the Control Track is the key to playing back sections of the timeline via external midi control.

Of course, you'll have to be ready to play 'to' the recording at the spur of the moment it kicks in, and hopefully, your performance tempo will not be too far off upon entry.


You may find, if your performing tempo varies too much for the midi coming into it, that the best way is to arrange the song around a click track and pipe the click into the drummer and the arrangement to FOH/monitors.
The drummer plays to the click coming via Out2, the midi parts are in MWS,SAW and play at the right beat/bar, etc per click via Out1 to FOH/monitor.
You just load the edl and play along.

The Show Control should expand this farther with multiple edls, but I have not dived into it yet enough to attempt explaining, lol.

[snapper]

Thanks for going to that length of description! I was really hoping to make it simpler though. That's why I thought I would just have someone that already has and knows the synth side of things, record the two parts for me, and then I would simply trigger them to start and stop playing via a foot controller like the one I posted the link to earlier. Could this be done like this, and not have to use mws? It's really not worth it to go to those lengths for me for this one tiny part. And I wouldnt want to buy anything I really dont have a use for, at least not yet. I do have a keyboard controller, but I'd rather use my feet for the live thing. If I could get away with say,$100 or less for a foot controller and a few bucks to someone to do the tracks, I'd go for it. Otherwise I'll probobly leave it alone.

I wish one of my bandmates was already into this kind of thing.

Mike.

[SoundSuite]

Mike,

If you don't use midi, but simply get the audio tracks into SAW's MT, you can do the same process with the control track.
This means no MWS or external midi controller needed at all, just SAW.

Just smack the space key to get it rolling and stop, instead of assigning a midi note to recieve from the outside world.

[snapper]

It's to fast, I wouldnt have time to hit the space bar. I would need to use my feet. And since there's two seperate parts I would need to have control over which part played. I was thinkin I'd hit the trigger to start the first parts playback and then hit a different button for the other part?

Mike.

[Pedro Itriago]

It would also be a good idea to have John's metronome on a track or a whole click track aside from the recorded wav's and feed that click track to the drummer via headphones, otherwise you're gonna easily loose tempo when you reach the the key's after the guitar solo.

Neal (and a lot of drummers) gets tempo fed thru headphones when he has to follow synths LFO's or anything that it's timed

I think if FF drops by this thread, he may tell you how he does wva cues live

You could also record the yyz morse code made with the ride in a wav file as well, so the intro is made by the wav file and not the drummer :rolleyes:

[snapper]

He's just hitting the ride now so ya, it doesnt soung authentic on the intro. What was the name of that thing they used there? I forget. I dont think we would need a click for this. The first part comes right in with the guitar, bass and drums, so we could follow along. The second part comes at that break where it would be easy to adjust.

Mike.

[Pedro Itriago]

...Then what you need is a sampler and a midi pedalboard. There are also soft samplers, the only physical thing you'll need is the midi pedalboard.

This is the one I have hammond (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=42/g=key/s=midi/search/detail/base_pid/706506/) but it's not the only one. Other examples are studio logic (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=42/g=key/s=midi/search/detail/base_pid/701304/) or roland (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=42/g=key/s=midi/search/detail/base_pid/700734/) or like this midi guitar effects controller (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=42/g=key/s=midi/search/detail/base_pid/182469/) that can trigger midi notes

Maybe you could do your own search & find it cheaper


It's to fast, I wouldnt have time to hit the space bar. I would need to use my feet. And since there's two seperate parts I would need to have control over which part played. I was thinkin I'd hit the trigger to start the first parts playback and then hit a different button for the other part?

Mike.

[snapper]

Would this do the trick?

http://www.tech21nyc.com/midimouse.html

[Pedro Itriago]

Errrr...nope. It seems to only send program change, it doesn't say anything about sending (and there are no switches for it) midi note on/off


Would this do the trick?

http://www.tech21nyc.com/midimouse.html

[SoundSuite]

Would this do the trick?

http://www.tech21nyc.com/midimouse.html
It looks to control midi program changes, but not send midi notes.

IE, it appears it will change the preset of your midi controlled effects rack, but will not send a note, like C3, D3, etc.

edit...Pedro's quick!

[Bob L]

The easiest way to mix SAW tracks with live performance is to just build your SAW tracks from start to finish for each song... where there are synths, simply have them placed at the proper point in the songs timeline and there is nothing to trigger except the start of the songs... which can easily be done manually with the spacebar or with any kind of midi keyboard note/on trigger in the Ctrl Track.

Many bands are using this concept with SAW handling all kinds of backing tracks for vocals, horns, synth parts... etc.

If the tracks actually have a straight rhythm part from start to end, no click is needed if your band can play along in time.

Otherwise, one click track is fed to the drummer for each song and he keeps time while the rest of the band follows him.

Bob L

[snapper]

This would require us to play to a click track. Usually not a problem, but with this tune it may really screw us up. Maybe we'll see if we can groove on just a click track first.

Mike.