SAC remote and Bluetooth or other means for communication..

[martiaudio]

I am trying to be as broad as possible as I have something in mind..

Is there any way at all to run SAC remote on a pc based machine that has no ethernet nor wifi, just Bluetooth and usb b?

[Brent Evans]

the easiest way to do this would be to use the USB port to connect to a networking adapter of some sort. bluetooth is not designed for networking, nor is it able to handle large distances.

[RBIngraham]

Where did you find a computer without Ethernet?

[martiaudio]

Lets formulate the idea..

I am looking at a very efficient way and cheap way to make some personal monitor mix touch pads computers..

it is possible to find 7" with window CE6 for $60 nowadays.. ( price of those cheap GPS sat.Nav..and it does work well actually )

It has bluetooth, not really usb and GPS...

iPad
with good coding will come soon I am not worried but iPad is way too expensive..
and I would like to make a good use of SACRemote wired or wireless.

few X41 with the stylus lost of first gig isn't a good idea either...any classic cheap laptop is a no go for me.. I won't ask musician already use to have aviom to operate restricted SACRemote with a mouse whilst playing!!

There is only the Behringer P16M system that really seems the way to go..

But I would rather have the wireless monitor short xlr by the stage box and have some touch pads for the personal Mixers with SACREmote it makes more sense to me and give a lot more possibilities for everyone..

$60 what seems to be a reliable touch pads, if we can run and utilise SACRemote without coding a new sub program for it... that's the way to go to me..
But How??

[martiaudio]

the easiest way to do this would be to use the USB port to connect to a networking adapter of some sort. bluetooth is not designed for networking, nor is it able to handle large distances.

I think you are right.
it is a long stretch but could work if first I could install SAC REMOTE only on those machine I am describing..
Surely that can be done right!!

[Mattseymour]

No it can't.

SACRemote will run under windows XP, Vista, 7, and probably fine on 2000. It will run, with some weirdness, under linux with Wine. However that's on x86 systems. I've no idea whether the UI code of SAC, which is what the remote is, uses x86 assembly as the SAC engine does, either way I think your chances of getting it running on something ARM based is very small... unless you use some sort of emulation which would be far too slow to be any use at all.

Frankly this is a waste of time though because a machine that's capable of running XP and therefore SACremote with networking built in is available for very little.

[Andy Hamm]

First off, I'm not saying that this is going to be time well spent, but none the less it probably can be done.

If I were attempting this I would first get a healthy host pc and run this http://www.xpunlimited.com/ , or Windows Server in Terminal mode. Install your SAC remotes on the individual terminal sessions. Since it sounds like you want to use this for stage monitor mixes the distances will be short by keeping the host PC on stage. Make sure that the host PC has bluetooth and search for "Bluetooth tcpip" allthough I still think you would be better off buying cheap android tablets that you can get for $99 and use wifi.

Connect the clients to individual remote desktop terminal sessions to the terminal server and you should be good from there.

I strongly suggest that you search for cheap android tablets such as the following in your area though:
http://www.shopxscargo.com/product_catalogue/cat_product_details.asp?category_id=44&product_code=31477&sub_category_1_id=180&category=Notebooks and Tablets

and use WIFI.


Oooops, it looks like xpunlimited for xp has been discontinued (probably due to Microsoft not liking what it did), my existing copy still works though. This means that you will have to either use Windows Server in terminal mode or virtualized XP instances.

[Mattseymour]

But... You're still running over a remote desktop protocol which means you won't have nice responsive metering.

[Andy Hamm]

But... You're still running over a remote desktop protocol which means you won't have nice responsive metering.

For on stage monitor mixes, not such a big deal. Actually over a lan it isn't that bad.

[Mattseymour]

True. And I guess if it gives you control with a $100 tablet its worth exploring.

[soundchicken]

I've got something like this going right now. using a monitor "host" machine that has 5 vbox machines running on it. each VM has rtpmidi running and can connect to ipads or androids with the rigt app.

[JLepore]

And Bob thinks I do things to break the system. Seriously ... you expect things like this to not glitch the system?! I actually attempted to use TightVNC to get around the plugin issue and that alone was a disaster - can't imagine trying to run VMs on the machine at the same time!

There is no spare network capacity with just 2 remotes running - how can you think of throwing something like VNC/RDP/etc into the mix. You know what happens when there is a network glitch!

[Mattseymour]

Just wondering about network capacity. One remote on a fast ethernet connection is about 0.48% of the available capacity.

[JLepore]

Just wondering about network capacity. One remote on a fast ethernet connection is about 0.48% of the available capacity.

I could go into a discussion as to why this is not what it seems to be in SAC, but since the post would just get deleted, I'll save the time. If you made it up to 10% utilization I'd be surprised. Add any wireless, and all bets are off. Latency has a lot to do with it too.

[Bob L]

Each person's mileage varies... there are hundreds of variables from system setup to system setup...

I have talked to many many many SAC users running 5 and more remotes show after show with no issues.

KUI does very serious medical mission critical conventions with multiple remotes all the time.

Bob L

[Mattseymour]

I can see latency being an issue. I suspect the quality of your network interface and drivers are a hugely significant factor. One Dell desktop I have will max out to almost 1gb/s, another with a different nic barely manages 600mb/s and that's with heavy cpu hit.

[gdougherty]

Many desktop nic's are dependent on CPU for operation. Good ones and server nic's offload all that and can keep up with the maximum bandwidth.

[Mattseymour]

If network performance matters I tend to use an intel server card. They just work.

[Andy Hamm]

I'd go with the assumption that the term box is gigabit to the mix rack and each remote session is 36Mbps via wifi. Still extremely viable, and worthwhile trying.

[soundchicken]

First and foremost I do not run VMs on my main host but on a seperate machine, specifically set up with a multicore processor so that each VM gets dedicated core access. I also using a gbit switch with a gbit card in my main host and the monitor host, I know that there is still a potential log jam in the VMs to monitor hosts ability to switch the network info but as to date (apx 50 shows) there have been no gliches/bomb blasts.

Keep in mind that the set up I use is for a single band who are only (in fact they are restricted) using a single monitor mix apice with no fkeys just a midi connection. It is not something that is altered too much, they were just willing to pay for me to set up 5 individully controllable mixes on tablets.

[martiaudio]

I've got something like this going right now. using a monitor "host" machine that has 5 vbox machines running on it. each VM has rtpmidi running and can connect to ipads or androids with the rigt app.

I've tried that on my bench with iPod touch and iPhone with ac7 remote but that is not what I have in mind..
The actual SACremote is great ..so I'd like to run that literally..on lag or wifi..

I guess I'll buy some refurbished thinkpad touch and less than $200ea.. I suppose to date that is the best way.. not sexy as iPads, not finger touch but stylus.. it is more precise anyway.. thanks to all..

[tubetonez]

First and foremost I do not run VMs on my main host but on a seperate machine, specifically set up with a multicore processor so that each VM gets dedicated core access. I also using a gbit switch with a gbit card in my main host and the monitor host, I know that there is still a potential log jam in the VMs to monitor hosts ability to switch the network info but as to date (apx 50 shows) there have been no gliches/bomb blasts.

Keep in mind that the set up I use is for a single band who are only (in fact they are restricted) using a single monitor mix apice with no fkeys just a midi connection. It is not something that is altered too much, they were just willing to pay for me to set up 5 individully controllable mixes on tablets.

What app(s) are you using on the tablets? Have you tried, instead of running separate VM's, running multiple instances of SACRemote and RTPMidi?

[tubetonez]

First and foremost I do not run VMs on my main host but on a seperate machine, specifically set up with a multicore processor so that each VM gets dedicated core access. I also using a gbit switch with a gbit card in my main host and the monitor host, I know that there is still a potential log jam in the VMs to monitor hosts ability to switch the network info but as to date (apx 50 shows) there have been no gliches/bomb blasts.

Keep in mind that the set up I use is for a single band who are only (in fact they are restricted) using a single monitor mix apice with no fkeys just a midi connection. It is not something that is altered too much, they were just willing to pay for me to set up 5 individully controllable mixes on tablets.

What app(s) are you using on the tablets? Have you tried, instead of running separate VM's, running multiple instances of SACRemote and RTPMidi?

[soundchicken]

AC7 and TouchDAW on the the 2 tablet types.

If you use multiple sessions of SAC remote then you cannot limit the sessions to a single mixer. They have to have separate IPs to lock them down. (sound guy rule #273, never give a musician a chance to screw with anyone's stuff besides his own)

Multiple iterations could work if the lock down wasn't needed.

[martiaudio]

Actually I've just found that in uk..
Acer Iconia W500 Tablet PC
so I guess it can be used right away for SAC remote and multitouch although probably not yet compatible with sac remote but that is ok!!

and although expensive, still a lot cheaper than iPads.. and it is now ..not in a year time with an operating system that is not quite compatible and all that none sense over again..

check it out.. I like to hear some comments!

http://www.ebuyer.com/259179-acer-iconia-w500-tablet-pc-le-rhc02-045?utm_source=b2c_11-10-2012&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=b2c_thursday

[soundchicken]

imho w500 is not worth the time.

[Mattseymour]

I've tried a different and much more expensive windows tablet and soon gave up. Windows on a tablet is not a happy partnership.

[JLepore]

I've tried a different and much more expensive windows tablet and soon gave up. Windows on a tablet is not a happy partnership.


Windows works great on my tablet - Lenovo X61

[Mattseymour]

Ok I'll qualify that statement. Windows with a capacitive touch tablet is not a happy partnership.

I suspect if you have a stylus, with the extra accuracy that brings, things are better. The the capacitive tablets tend to be without a keyboard in an ipad style. I've used a few and the experience is always hopeless.

[RBIngraham]

Tablets work great with or without a stylus... when the software is designed to work with one.

[Mattseymour]

Too true. I found Microsoft best attempts didn't really work either :-(