Onscreen faders jumping with Motormix

[jlklein]

Had a weird first time occurrence yesterday evening at church. We have two Motormixes set up on the 16 channel midi template that has been working well for a couple weeks. Yesterday, the piano fader started erratically jumping up and down on screen, and while the Motormix wasn't moving, the volume was jumping up and down in the room along with the onscreen fader. A few of the other faders started doing this as well, but they were muted. This was also happening on other mixer views as well. During this, the M-audio MIDISPORT2x2 activity light was jumping around like crazy.

The only way I could get it to stop was to de-activate the midi link. When I re-enabled it after the service, the same thing started up again, even after I rebooted both Motormixes. I then switched to the single Motormix template, testing each one individually with no issues. Then I switched back to the dual Motormix setup and the issue did not return.

The Motormixes had been left on since about 11a.m., the service started around 4:30p and the erratic behavior started around 5:30p. I thought maybe it was a heat issue, but they didn't really cool down any.

Anyone ever seen this before?

Thanks,
Jeff

[Frank DeWitt]

The on screen faders jump if we link 3 or more together (click the top) and move one a bit. They will just sit there and keep jumping.

Frank

[Butch Bos]

I also can select 3 or more faders and they will start jumping BUT only on a win 7 64 computer
My xp machine does not have any problem

Butch

[Frank DeWitt]

Ours is a XP machine.

[jlklein]

This was only two linked together, and was on a Dell Optiplex 990 running Win7 64-bit. We have another pair of Motormixes I ran at the local high school on a Dell Optiplex 360 running Win7 32. That setup was left on after rehearsal from about 2pm Saturday overnight into Sunday through to the end of the event at 12pm and had no issues whatsoever. That Dell 360/Dual Motormix setup will be our new Record Mix PC at the church and backup host complete with MOTU PCI-424x card, and I'm planning on another Dell Optiplex 990 (desktop vs minitower) for the portable setup.

Both Dells were tweaked with the Win7 SAC Tweaks but I did not single core anything (no need, really, but I do have to swap out the OEM Nvidia card on our Rec PC). I may swap out the FOH Motormix set with the Record station set and see what happens...there's not a whole lot of difference between the two setups other than 32 bit vs 64 bit and being a later version of Optiplex.

Thanks,
Jeff

[jlklein]

OK, so yesterday I swapped the Motormix pairs out and the FOH pair that I moved to the Record mix PC now worked fine and the new pair on the FOH PC was screwing up the same way.

I reinstalled the factory drivers on the FOH PC and that seemed to fix things, which made sense as I recalled I was using the Windows drivers originally for the affected PC.

Fast forward to today, the problem is back on the FOH PC but instead of jumping faders, the right hand Motormix only is VERY sluggish in response, if at all. Single fader moves are very erratic and delayed & it doesn't respond to any button pushes, BUT if TWO faders are moved they both track fine! Also, any on screen actions are reflected on the right hand Motormox fine.

I've double checked and reloaded all file, driver and template settings but am at a loss. As this is slightly different than the first jumping screen fader issue, I'm going to reswap the Motormix pairs and re-evaluate, but would appreciate any additional ideas.

Thanks,
Jeff

[jlklein]

Tonight I swapped Motormix pairs and the issue followed the hardware from the FOH PC to the REC PC...but then the FOH PC started doing it. So now they both are doing the same thing on both PC's. Same exact symptom: the right-hand Motormix of each pair follows the screen movements fine, but no buttons work and faders only work if any two or more are moved simultaneously. The left hand Motormix in both sets works fine.

Jeff

[jlklein]

Bob,
What is the difference between these 4 Motormix templates I have in my SAC configurations folder?:

MidiCtrl_CM_Motor_Mix.mct
MidiCtrl_CM_Motor_Mix_16_Ch.mct
MidiCtrl_CM_Motor_Mix_24_Ch.mct
MidiCtrl_CM_Motor_Mix_SAC_New.mct

I've been using the MidiCtrl_CM_Motor_Mix_16_Ch.mct template, which is having this issue, but the MidiCtrl_CM_Motor_Mix.mct is not (on either Motormix).

Was the MidiCtrl_CM_Motor_Mix_SAC_New.mct released before or after the others and could it fix this issue? It doesn't specify a channel count setup, so I'm not sure if it's a replacement for the single Motormix or for all 3.

Thanks,
Jeff

[Bob L]

The MotorMix New template was a replacement for the single 8 ch template released a while back... the new 8, 16 and 24 chan templates should have that fix included and should be the ones to use.

What is not making sense is that your issue keeps jumping around... seems to work on one machine then not on the remote... then not on the FOH either... etc... unless I'm mis-understanding your descriptions.

Perhaps you may want to give me a call and we can step thru a few things and see if we can find a repeatable pattern that sheds some light on where the solution lies.

Bob L

[jlklein]

What is not making sense is that your issue keeps jumping around... seems to work on one machine then not on the remote... then not on the FOH either... etc... unless I'm mis-understanding your descriptions.

I believe the first issue was actually a driver issue that was causing the onscreen faders to jump around by themselves. I'd used the drivers Windows installed for the MIDISPORT on the FOH PC but had installed the M-audio drivers on the REC PC (which I'd used at the high school the weekend before to run it through it's paces). Once I installed the M-audio driver on the FOH PC, that particular issue went away.

The second issue (onscreen not responding to single fader moves or buttons on the right hand Motormix only) initially appeared only on the FOH machine Motormixes and then followed them to the REC machine, so I thought it was the particular right hand Motormix. Then the pair I swapped from the REC machine to the FOH machine started doing the same thing (haven't tried swapping them back yet.) It appears to not start right away, after a few minutes of operation I think, but I had the same REC machine and Motormix at the high school the previous weekend running for almost 24 hrs straight with no issue.

I did backup the FOH settings to the REC machine, as that is going to be the backup host, so maybe something on the FOH machine causing the issue got copied over to the REC machine.


Perhaps you may want to give me a call and we can step thru a few things and see if we can find a repeatable pattern that sheds some light on where the solution lies.

I may have to do that, but will have to wait until I get in front of the PCs again. I may also try wiping the SAC install and re-installing, copying only the essential settings.

Thanks,
Jeff

[jlklein]

FIXED!!!!!

I decided to try using the M-Audio A-port vice the B-port as maybe the MIDISPORT doesn't like using the B-jacks if the A-jacks aren't also used. Stranger things have happened, i.e. MOTU requires that you fill the Audiowire jacks in order starting at the DB9 connection end.

Then I thought, when I used one of these pairs successfully at the high school last week, I was using both MIDI pairs: the Host Motormix pair was on A, and the Remote session Motormix (single) was on B...hmm...

Holy CRAP on a CRACKER!! That was IT!!!

Apparently the MIDISPORT2x2 does not like having the MIDI B-ports used without the MIDI A-ports occupied. I switched to the MIDI A-ports on both the FOH pair and the REC PC pair this morning at the end of the service, let them run for about 15 minutes while we packed up, and they were still working fine. Left them running until I just came back for the evening setup (about 3 hrs later) and they're STILL working fine!

Ok, now that I've jinxed it, we'll see how the evening service goes...

Jeff

[jlklein]

Apparently the MIDISPORT2x2 does not like having the MIDI B-ports used without the MIDI A-ports occupied.

Verdict: Yup, that was it. Ran fine all night. Couldn't find anything in the MIDISPORT manual that warned against it, but there it is.

Jeff

[Bob L]

Good detective work... certainly not something obvious.

Bob L

[jlklein]

Crap. Did it again last night. However, this time power cycling the USB MIDI adapter and re-setting the MIDI Device Option did work (just opened the option and clicked OK again as it was already set for MIDISPORT2x2 A in and out. Not sure what I'd do mid-show, though, as you can't open the MIDI Device Options when live.

So, next step is to swap out one of the MIDISPORTs with my Fast Track Pro to see if that changes things...it's still M-audio but a different MIDI device. I'm starting to agree with Carl Malone's opinion of M-audio MIDI products...

@#$^$!

Jeff

[KUI]

In device manager make the usb power saving options are turned off for the root device it is attached to.

I by default go through and turn off the power save feature for all USB devices the and the network adapters.

KUI

[jlklein]

In device manager make the usb power saving options are turned off for the root device it is attached to.

I by default go through and turn off the power save feature for all USB devices the and the network adapters.

KUI

Good thing to check...wouldn't that make the whole interface not work, though, rather than just half of the Motormix pair acting wonky?

Thanks,
Jeff

[jlklein]

So, next step is to swap out one of the MIDISPORTs with my Fast Track Pro to see if that changes things...it's still M-audio but a different MIDI device. I'm starting to agree with Carl Malone's opinion of M-audio MIDI products...

Well, so far the Fast Track Pro MIDI interface I put on the FOH PC has not exhibited the problem, while the MIDISPORT2x2 interface on the REC PC has again caused the right-hand Motormix of the pair to fail.

I also disabled the power management on the USB Root Hubs as KUI suggested, but that didn't change the issue (although a good idea nonetheless). I'll give it a few more days, but so far it looks like specifically a MIDISPORT2x2 operational issue.

Carl Malone suggested the Roland UM3 G as his go-to MIDI device. What are the rest of you dual Motormix setup folks using?

Thanks,
Jeff

[Bob L]

In some cases, certain midi devices do not provide enough ram buffering to handle large dumps of data at once... this can cause data to be lost, which could cause the issues that you are having.

Bob L

[jlklein]

In some cases, certain midi devices do not provide enough ram buffering to handle large dumps of data at once... this can cause data to be lost, which could cause the issues that you are having.

Bob L

It's weird that it will move two or more faders fine, though, but erratically respond to one and not at all to button presses.

Odd also that the Fast Track Pro has a noticeably slower update speed (faders have more of a delay in moving to the new screen position) than the MIDISPORT, but doesn't exhibit the failure issue.

Jeff

[Bob L]

It could be buffering the data and spitting it out evenly over time... hence the slower movement, but no loss of data.

Bob L

[jlklein]

It could be buffering the data and spitting it out evenly over time... hence the slower movement, but no loss of data.

Bob L

I can deal with the slower data more than the loss of 8 channels of control, at least for now. I'll order one of the Roland UM3 G's that Carl uses...stands to reason that the MIDI device used with the development of the Motormix SAC chip would be the way to go.

Jeff