OT: PCI vs USB, or Lynx vs RME

[Ian Alexander]

Over the weekend we had a plumbing incident. The audio computer is dead. The Lynx L22 and ADAT daughter card may be dead, too. Looking to the future and recovering from the occasional crisis, I think USB will have more flexibility. I love the Lynx convertors and I use ADAT to I/o headphones, talk back, phone patch, etc. I can get another Lynx setup for about $900. I can get the same functionality, plus some unneeded I/o from the RME Fire face UC for $1350.

Here are my questions.

Are the RME convertors on the same level as the Lynx?

Is it worth a $450 premium to have a more future-proof interface (USB over PCI)?

My builder tells me that Intel motherboards are replaced overnight under warranty, when ASUS boards, which have much better PCI, take weeks. What's that worth when you have clients waiting for you to get back in action?

Thanks.

[CurtZHP]

Was the stuff running when it got wet? If not, the card might be salvageable if you dry it out right away.

Apples and oranges: I had a power amp once that got literally submerged when a basement flooded. I put the thing on the bench and dried it out as best as I could. The thing ran for years.

[Ian Alexander]

Was the stuff running when it got wet? If not, the card might be salvageable if you dry it out right away.

Apples and oranges: I had a power amp once that got literally submerged when a basement flooded. I put the thing on the bench and dried it out as best as I could. The thing ran for years.

Not running, but after drying, zip. No fan, no drive spin... I installed the Lynx card in another machine and one input channel doesn't work, the ADAT daughter card doesn't do anything, but... the motherboard in that machine is an Intel, which has a less than great PCI slot, so who knows?

[jmh]

Second that comment about drying the stuff out. Water does not hurt electronics. It is water plus electricity that does all the damage as the voltages accelerate corrosion and also conduct damaging currents.

The following is for before you fire it up - but still may be worth a try.

I would take out the board, hose it off, rinse it with distilled water, then blow dry it. Then really let it dry for a day or so before you power it. Also, spray all of the contacts and jacks with contact cleaner - or better yet, pro-gold. Insert plugs while still wet with the contact cleaner. You might get your channels back...

[soundchicken]

No blow dry!

Forced air like that will cause static. instead put it in a pot of dried rice, the rice will leach out any excess water.

[Tim Miskimon]

Was the power switch on the back of the computer turned off or did the computer just shut down from the OS software?
The reason I ask is because if the power switch on the back was left in the on position than there was still power on the mother board and that could have caused componients on the board to short out.
I make it a point now to shut off the power switch on the back of
the computer.
If there's no switch it's worth the trouble to unplug it at the end of the day.
That way if a storm hits of some kind of power failure happens while you're away from your studio you are protected.

[sebastiandybing]

I just want to point out that the FirefaceUC
was the first usb interface RME did about
4-5 years ago.
They have made improvements in how
things work and you would be better off with
a babyface, fireface ufx.

PS. When I have sees a dead comp. its
often turn out that the power supply just have
to be replaced.

[Ian Alexander]

The computer was plugged in and the power switch on the back was on. I have always used the windows shut down and nothing else. May reconsider that now. The motherboard and the CPU are fried and the power supply probably is. Intel will replace the CPU, but ASUS wants their motherboard back before sending a new one. I can't wait that long, so I'm just sucking up a new one. It looks like the HDD, the RAM, and the DVD burner are ok.

The Lynx card works on one channel in my office computer. Not sure if that means the card is toast or the Intel motherboard is incompatible. If it's toast, based on the other devices in the studio, I see my choices as another Lynx L22 and ADAT daughter card or an RME Fireface UC.

The specs on the RME Fireface UC are not as good as the Lynx L22, but it's not that big a difference. And specs don't always tell the whole story. Even though it's more expensive, I'm leaning toward the RME to get into a more future-proof interface. The RME is USB. Not only is the Lynx PCI, but it has to be a really good PCI implementation. I will miss those convertors, though.

[Ian Alexander]

I just want to point out that the FirefaceUC
was the first usb interface RME did about
4-5 years ago.
They have made improvements in how
things work and you would be better off with
a babyface, fireface ufx.

PS. When I have sees a dead comp. its
often turn out that the power supply just have
to be replaced.
Good to know, Sebastian, but I need to have ADAT, plus either SPDIF or AES at the same time. Not sure the Babyface can do that. And I've read that the Babyface mic pres are noisy, not that I'd use them. Also, the UFX is more expensive and I don't need firewire. Are you saying that firewire is not the only difference between the UC and the UFX?

[Ian Alexander]

I just want to point out that the FirefaceUC
was the first usb interface RME did about
4-5 years ago.
They have made improvements in how
things work and you would be better off with
a babyface, fireface ufx.

PS. When I have sees a dead comp. its
often turn out that the power supply just have
to be replaced.
I found a comparison between the UC and the UCX on the RME site. Looks like the UCX is a newer design. And the UFX shares that newer design and has more ins and outs than the UCX. But of course, the price goes up and then up again.

The Lynx combo with better specs and all the I/O I need is less expensive, but the PCI anchor is still there. Hm...

[bcorkery]

Ian,

Lynx is very consciencious about their drivers, in my experience. I don't think you need to be concerned about that.

[AcousticGlue]

Ian, this is good topic because I have spilled beer, coffee and had a water line break too on my old machine and my Echoaudio Layla 24 has been through the gamut and still playing thank God. So whatever is in the 500-600 buck range will be my best choice. I play more than record through mine. I like using SGear and A3 messing around on my monitors downstairs. If this thing died then what is next on list to get. I hear many persons dissing USB and FW for noise floors or performance. They dont make the PCI Laylas anymore. What would I expect on firewire or USB is not known at this time. I can't afford $1000 soundcards anymore.

[Ian Alexander]

I decided to get away from PCI. I bought the RME FireFace UCX for $1549. Quite a bit more than the Lynx cards (about $900), but this more modular approach should make it easier to recover from equipment failures. It also allows me to use the interface remotely with a laptop or other portable computer, which will probably happen more and more as my son the rock star continues to develop. :)

Although the specs are a bit better on the Lynx, the RME sounds very good on VO and matches up quite well doing revisions on earlier jobs. The headphone feed sounds noticeably different. I expect that comes from a different amount of latency, resulting in a different cancellation effect with direct bone-conduction hearing.

I was very surprised to find that the same analog level input results in a much hotter digital level with the RME. Looks like about 6 dB! To match old jobs, I lowered the preamp a notch and a half. I don't know why I thought AD levels were pretty standard. When I look at the specs, it's a very small difference. Lynx L22: +20 dBu max. RME FF UCX: +19 dBu max.

Further reading of the RME manual reveals that +19 dBu max requires changing the line inputs from +4 dBu to "Lo Gain". The Lynx max input level refers to +4 dBu. Seems like somebody has a faulty meter.

The gain changes are made in TotalMix. The manual refers to "electronic switches". I hope that means analog. Also, the choice of Lo Gain, +4, or -10 affects all similar inputs. Separate group switches affect the outputs. I wish they could be switched individually or in pairs, but that's a small quibble.

After about 15 minutes of complete confusion with TotalMix, I started to understand it. After several days of use, I have to say that the RME mixer is much more flexible than the Lynx version.

So far, I'm very pleased with the new RME box.

[bcorkery]

Congrats Ian. I've been a fan of RME since switching from the Lynx 1 card.

[Sean McCoy]

While I've never needed to delve much into TotalMix with my Digiface because I have a console, I've been doing extensive sessions at a studio that just switched to a Fireface UFX, and I must say I've been very impressed with the level and ease of control the TotalMix software offers. And, as always with RME, rock-solid dependability. Almost enough to make me think about giving up my console...but not quite. :)

[bcorkery]

:) I'm still toying with the idea Sean!

[Ian Alexander]

I have discovered that the headphones sound different depending on how they're fed. If I route the mic signal from Total Mix through the ADAT out to an analog output of the PreSonus DigiMax FS ADDA, there is a certain quality to the sound that I assume comes from some phase cancellation between bone conduction of my voice and the headphone signal, due to the AD/DA delay. If I use an analog out from the RME FireFace UCX to feed the headphone amp, it sounds different. I hear more solid lows. I would guess that's due to a lower latency in AD/DA and therefore, less phase cancellation in the lower frequencies. RME brags about the low number of samples of latency in the UCX, both in AD and DA, but not the same each direction.

I guess the PreSonus (and its Behringer backup) will be relegated to phone patch and other duties only.

[Cary B. Cornett]

I have discovered that the headphones sound different depending on how they're fed. If I route the mic signal from Total Mix through the ADAT out to an analog output of the PreSonus DigiMax FS ADDA, there is a certain quality to the sound that I assume comes from some phase cancellation between bone conduction of my voice and the headphone signal, due to the AD/DA delay. If I use an analog out from the RME FireFace UCX to feed the headphone amp, it sounds different. I hear more solid lows. I would guess that's due to a lower latency in AD/DA and therefore, less phase cancellation in the lower frequencies. RME brags about the low number of samples of latency in the UCX, both in AD and DA, but not the same each direction.

I observed something similar years ago, but with different equipment. Yes, the latency of conversion and such affects you you sound to yourself with the headphones. Some people deal with the latency OK, but I chose to set things up so that I could have a straight analog path from my vocal mic to the cans. My Furman HDS-6 (http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?id=HDS-6) setup makes this easy. There is a distribution amp in the rack with a stereo mix in and four mono "more me" inputs. This feeds satellite boxes that mount on mic stands in the studio. Each satellite box has a level control for the stereo mix, and similar controls for each of the four mono inputs. The Presonus Digimax FS has direct analog outs from the mic preamps, so I patch the vocal mic channel from there into one of the "more me's" on the Furman unit. I set up not to monitor the input through SAW, just the playback. I can control the balance, and I don't need to have a console cluttering up my work area. Since you have the Digimax FS, you could do something similar with one of those dinky mixers from Mackie or Behringer.

I should note that the latency through the SAW input channel mix is greater than that through, say, TotalMix, but even TotalMix does not match the quality of the direct analog path. I could work with it, but I had the option to do better.