Dropping markers while recording

[Marvin]

Hi,

I'm aware that this horse might be long dead, skinned, and sold to burger companies, but I have an idea I'd like to share. Feel free to shoot me down. :)

Would it be possible to use the K command while recording? All SAW has to do is remember when on the timeline K is pressed, and when the recording stops, split the recorded region(s) at those places.

This would make it possible to have edit points that "sticks" with the regions, as opposed to Q. (I know it's possible to use Q, but then I have to edit from the end. And it involves more keystrokes as well ;))

If possible, it would be great for me, as I sometimes record hours of voiceovers, and if my suggestion works, I could just TAB to get to the next edit point.

Thanks for considering it. :)

marvin

[UpTilDawn]

Hi,

I'm aware that this horse might be long dead, skinned, and sold to burger companies, but I have an idea I'd like to share. Feel free to shoot me down. :)

Would it be possible to use the K command while recording? All SAW has to do is remember when on the timeline K is pressed, and when the recording stops, split the recorded region(s) at those places.

This would make it possible to have edit points that "sticks" with the regions, as opposed to Q. (I know it's possible to use Q, but then I have to edit from the end. And it involves more keystrokes as well ;))

If possible, it would be great for me, as I sometimes record hours of voiceovers, and if my suggestion works, I could just TAB to get to the next edit point.

Thanks for considering it. :)

marvin

Ooo! I like that better than markers, even. It makes it simple to see the region cuts, TAB from region to region and Ctrl/B mark regions for quick build mix, etc. without any extra fuss!

Granted, there might be more for Bob to consider when working with a multi-track recording than a single mono or stereo track. I'd love to see something like this happen! :)

[Bob L]

Try the Q keystroke... it will drop a Cue Location marker at the current cursor position live during recording... you can also click in the name or use the N keystroke at that time to enter a name... or just press Enter or click OK to close the Cue Location dialog.

Afterward, you can use the Control Track view to easily jump to those markers and do what you want with the editing at those positions.

Bob L

[Marvin]

Thanks for replying. Yes, I have tried Q, and while that could be perfect for when I'm recording a live show, it is not perfect for other situations, for me.

I'm often recording myself, doing several hours of voice over/narrating stuff, and I need to mark the places where I did a retake. Could be almost a hundred places... :)
Since the Q markers don't follow the regions, but is locked to the timeline, I need to edit from the end of the recording, or else the Q markers will mark the wrong places.

With K, I could start editing anywhere, without messing up the markers. Sometimes I need to do a rough edit, to estimate the total length of the finished recording. Not possible with Q, since it would mess up all the markers. But possible with K :)

With my suggestion, I wouldn't need to switch between Control track and recorded track (jump to edit point, switch track, edit, switch track, jump to next), just TAB to the next edit point.

So, Q keystroke is very powerful, but K keystroke would mean other advantages, at least to me.

Thanks
marvin

[Bob L]

Well... the problem is that the region does not yet exist while recording is taking place so the K key can not function.

But... a possible function that converts all Cue Locations into region cuts after the fact may be useful for what you are trying to do... let me look into that.

Right now, you could jump to each location marker and then click on the track and press K... do this for all markers and then begin editing... even though it is a manual procedure, it can go fairly quick... even with hundreds of markers.

Bob L

[UpTilDawn]

I figured there might be a hitch to the idea.....
But I'm glad you'll look into an alternative way of using the idea, Bob.

[Ian Alexander]

Interesting idea. If Bob can implement the conversion from Q to K, that would be a nice option to have.

I begin editing a VO the opposite way, though. In longer sessions, I will stop and restart here and there while taking a drink, etc. Of course, this results in several regions on the track. The first thing I do in editing is highlight the second region and all those after it, then delete them. I put the cursor beyond the end of the recording and press U to get one region for the entire session. This means that when I am editing in the middle of the track, I have only one region to the right, which I can Shift-Drag left or right in one piece. This saves the time of pressing S, then End, to keep them all together.

I have never bothered with Q points or markers. I can't jump from pickup to pickup. I have to listen to the entire track while editing, because I sometimes don't read exactly what's on the page. :o There are also little mouth noises or other distractions that I didn't notice while recording, but will decide to eliminate in editing. Different strokes.

It might be interesting to try your approach, though. I could edit all the pickups first and then go back to zero to listen critically to the whole thing. Maybe that's what you do.

Thanks,

[bcorkery]

Marvin,

I use the Q-Key all the time. When editing I start at the end of the file so as not to move the markers.

I'm with Ian though, once I get the control track points edited, I take it from the top and to clean up the rough edits, deal with gasping breaths and any mouth noises to deliver a very clean file.

[Marvin]

Well... the problem is that the region does not yet exist while recording is taking place so the K key can not function.

I'm certainly no programmer, but I was hoping that the program could keep the positions in memory, then create regions, then split. But obviously there's more to it :)


But... a possible function that converts all Cue Locations into region cuts after the fact may be useful for what you are trying to do... let me look into that.

That would be great, thanks for considering it.


Right now, you could jump to each location marker and then click on the track and press K

Will try this next time, thanks!

Ian, Bill, interesting to hear how you do it. For the things I do, speed is often more important than artistic interpretation & clean files :) For me, it's simply not an option to listen through 2 hours of material to find mouth noises etc. But I'm not in your league, these are Quick'n'dirty jobs. For bigger assignments, I listen to all of it, like you do.

Thanks
marvin

[bcorkery]

Stashu,

I remember recording onto a pancake of tape and dropping paper flags into the winds of the tape to know where to edit! Thanks for reminding me of such frustrations ... and let's not even go into carts upcutting and recording across the splices!! :)

[sebastiandybing]

Another option is to rename the recording
file in the rec setup at each stop.
Its faster than you might think.
I normally just type in t1, t2 and so on.
but its really nice to have the take numbers burned
into the file when editing afterwards.
and if you write take numbers into the text its really
easy to edit afterwards.

[Dave Labrecque]

Stashu,

I remember recording onto a pancake of tape and dropping paper flags into the winds of the tape to know where to edit! Thanks for reminding me of such frustrations ... and let's not even go into carts upcutting and recording across the splices!! :)

Ah... the memories... :p

[Sean McCoy]

Another option is to rename the recording
file in the rec setup at each stop.
Its faster than you might think.
I normally just type in t1, t2 and so on.
but its really nice to have the take numbers burned
into the file when editing afterwards.
and if you write take numbers into the text its really
easy to edit afterwards.
Agreed. I do this whenever it's physically possible. What I'd love to see is a new file automatically created when changing layers, with the layer number appended to the file name.

[jmh]

>> ...with the layer number appended to the file name.

I have thought this would be good too.


This reminds me of a funny thing that has happen in the past (it may have even been an update or two ago that I encountered this) and wondered if anyone else has seen this - I have avoided the situation rather than attempt to replicate it as I don't exactly know the sequence of events and it happened only a couple of times - but it was something like this:

I would record a track and some portion of it would need an overdub probably punching in the trouble spot
I would copy the region to another track that was intended to become a comp track
Select another layer on the still armed record track and if I got a good take, copy some portion of it to my comp track - I may have repeated this step a few times so the resulting comp track would be built up of regions from several layers of the same audio file.

At some point in the process, there would be extra layers playing - it seemed that one of the pasted in regions (to the comped track) would not know where it's region's boundary was and would overlap the audio with another region.

Also, it seems to me I would have been cutting or resizing regions in the comp track as I was going along - maybe crossfades were getting stretched across entire regions? But it sounded more like both tracks.

I don't even know if this would even be possible (as I described it). Lately, I have been short on time for recording let alone experimenting - so I am mentioning this as an observed oddity as opposed to any type of bug report. And, it has been a while since I saw this so I can't rule out there just being something funny in the set up.

[studio-c]

i take notes on paper. but i tried this cue thing just now.
thing is, there are a few keystrokes involved in highlighting/activating the multitrack window in order to hit your K key and make a region cut. then going back to the control track window. repeat, repeat, repeat.

i really like that idea of "convert Q cues to K region splits", as a batch process. it could be useful. it seems like a Rail "SAWStudio Investigator" process. should be do-able.

right now, if i really need to do that, I use soundforge and hit the M key. those do stick with the soundfile. but i much prefer to record in SAWStudio.

[sebastiandybing]

Remember that the Control track can be moved...
I offent move it to the top...now select the control track and
the audio track...use the Tab key to jump between q locations
in the multitrack window.
So here it goes, hit the tab key, press k, hit the tab key, press k
if you are a good drummer you are soon ready to edit.

[Fulvio fullcode Politi]

Hi all,


Remember that the Control track can be moved...
I offent move it to the top...now select the control track and
the audio track...use the Tab key to jump between q locations
in the multitrack window.
So here it goes, hit the tab key, press k, hit the tab key, press k
if you are a good drummer you are soon ready to edit.

Well said, that's how to do it! And it also works on multiple tracks, like
drum sections and such... not to mention that writing a simple
script to do that takes a few seconds! ;)

Fu

[studio-c]

Stashu,

I remember recording onto a pancake of tape and dropping paper flags into the winds of the tape to know where to edit!

Being a facebook addict, I keep looking for the "Like" button on here.

Thanks for the flashback, Bill!

[bcorkery]

You're welcome Scott. I visit here more than Facebook but I found the SAW "like" button, check the title! :D

[MMP]

I created a key macro that stops recording/ hits K/ then starts recording again so that takes are clearly delineated.

You do risk missing something when the recording stops, but for most VO type sessions, I am slating cues at the same time and printing that to a second track.

The region boundries are then identical between the slate track and the VO track. This works great, and is even better than indexes on a DAT.

[Ian Alexander]

I created a key macro that stops recording/ hits K/ then starts recording again so that takes are clearly delineated.

You do risk missing something when the recording stops, but for most VO type sessions, I am slating cues at the same time and printing that to a second track.

The region boundries are then identical between the slate track and the VO track. This works great, and is even better than indexes on a DAT.

If you stop and start, I think you get a new region without pressing k.

[MMP]

You are right of course. It was about 7 years ago since I wrote it and looking at it now, it is somewhat more involved.

It stops recording, hits Q to leave a marker as well, returns through the naming dialogue, returns focus to the MT and starts recording again.

I just hit one key and its magic.

[Brent Bennett]

I created a key macro that stops recording/ hits K/ then starts recording again so that takes are clearly delineated.

What did you use to create your key macros?

[MMP]

http://www.piengineering.com/xkeys/xkpro.php

X-keys

[richswit]

Can you use it for selecting menu items??

[MMP]

yes.

[richswit]

yes.
OK, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but looking at the site and software, I still don't see how you can program it to open a menu...like, in Saw, program one button to go up into the File menu and select "Exit"...or the recent EDL list, etc...

I would gladly pay for such "scripts"....

Thanks,
Rich

[MMP]

You would program "alt, F, X" that would open the file menu and exit.

Try it manually. In SAW you do the alt f key sequentially...not at the same time.

[MMP]

Open recent is "alt, f, r"

[MMP]

I have a set of macros that select from multiple automation gallery settings for pan position. 13 buttons set to specific panning positions. I use these as "keyframes" for moving sound to picture and then program fades between these points to match motion. Much quicker and less fiddly than choosing manually from a list or trying to move the pan control with the mouse.

You could use a similar macro to choose between predrawn fades or from anything that is automatable.

[Brent Bennett]

http://www.piengineering.com/xkeys/xkpro.php

X-keys

Thanks, looks like a cool thing to have. I wish I had one of these in my Warcraft days!

[MMP]

What I like most is the work flow it allows.
I am never moving the cursor off the audio I am working on to go menu diving or to perform most editing functions. Left hand on the x-keys for commands, right hand pointing at audio and playing back. I also have a keyboard with 18 more programable buttons. The bottom two rows of three I use for volume automation. With +1-1, +3-3, and +6-6. So, with x-keys I have one button that selects, marks(including soft edges) & puts the cursor to the beginning of the region for playback, with one key, and then with the volume buttons I can quickly make a volume change for the marked region. It is very similar in practice to clip based automation, and it usually only requires a click, and two keystrokes. So, most of the time I am not using the faders at all to mix...just moving to the next spot on the timeline.

[MMP]

Keyboard is a Logitech G510S.

[richswit]

WOW! I just tried the 2 shortcuts you gave, and they work! So, where did you find those...are they in the manual? I missed them...:eek::eek::eek:

I have a Logitech G110 keyboard that I have some shortcuts programed. I'll add these 2.

How about "build mix to sound file" ???

Edit: Ok, i think I have it.... pressing "alt" then the first letter of the menu, P, (process/mixdown) then B for build mix, then enter.... Like it...who knew??

[MMP]

There are key equivilents for most(all) menu items.


The form is alt, whatever letter is underlined in the menu bar name, whatever letter is underlined in the menu item's name.

[Bob L]

And... any menu item that does not have a keyboard shortcut letter can be reached by using the dwn arrow key so many times... so... to set the Timeline to Tempo Mode you could use Alt-T-DwnArrow-DwnArrow-DwnArrow-Enter.

Bob L

[Brent Bennett]

The bottom two rows of three I use for volume automation. With +1-1, +3-3, and +6-6.

I may have to give the Xkeys a try. One of my favorite and useful regular keyboard shortcuts is the fader control. Using the < and > keys on the keyboard (make sure you're on the multitrack window on the correct track) you can adjust the volume up and down.

I know some people get confused with this shortcut as it's actually only the , and . key without using shift.

[MMP]

Right. My macros are just those keys repeated the correct number of times for my three sets of keys. Base 3.

[Carl G.]

a possible function that converts all Cue Locations into region cuts after the fact may be useful for what you are trying to do... let me look into that.Bob L
THAT is an ingenious idea, Bob!!

In the above process, another very useful thing would be to automatically convert all Cue location Names - into region names!!

Also nice would be an option to choose whether you want the Q point to be the beginning of a region or the "end" of a region (and region's name).
For instance... live recording with 'Q' points always would indicate what 'just happened' - so you'd want that Q point to be the 'ending' of a region. However, if you're simply marking a production, likely your marking the beginning a good point (in which case, you'd want the Q point to be the beginning of a region - and corresponding region name from the Q point)

1. Self recording your own VO live - the End Q point is an important choice.
2. Marking Q points during production - most likely the "beginning" Q point is the choice.

[Carl G.]

I remember recording onto a pancake of tape and dropping paper flags into the winds of the tape to know where to edit! Thanks for reminding me of such frustrations ... and let's not even go into carts upcutting and recording across the splices!! :)

Yeah... and if we wanted to start editing at the head of the recording - we LOST all the paper flag Q's!!! (they got 'automated in batch form' directly to the floor!... unless you had a fan in the control room) :)

[Bob L]

Carl... sounds like we have the makings of a nice new feature... I like the ideas.

Bob L

[MMP]

The cue to regions feature went on the "masterlist" in about 2006 and it was brought up again in 2007, near the end of this thread:

http://www.sawstudiouser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5596&highlight=cue

No matter...it would be lovely to see it implemented!

Regards,

MM

[Bob L]

My... how time flies when you're having fun. :)

Bob L

[Carl G.]

Carl... sounds like we have the makings of a nice new feature... I like the ideas.

Bob L

Wonderful! (and with credit to all from whom ideas flow) :)