Help - Sloooow SawStudio Editing in Win8

[Carl G.]

Have I-7, 32GB Ram on fast Asus board ... turned cores in BIOS down to 2 and hyper-threading is disabled. Chose Single CPU in SawStudio.

Thing flies.... Opening SawStudio in less than a second!

Yet when I try to move a region in the Multi-track, it takes 1 *whole* second for SS to move it after I've dragged (the outline) to the new location.

Similarly, when I press "R" on a region in TimeLine - it takes 1 full second for that region cut to actually happen!

Has anybody run into this type of slow behaviour to regions in the time-line while running Win 8?

What else can be done?
(I thought I applied all tweaks for Win8... but I can double check)

[sebastiandybing]

I have only seen this in both xp and win8 if
the edl has 10k or more regions going on the timeline.

What I do is to lower the undo to 1 or no undo.
It seems to help.

Sebastian

[Bob L]

Perhaps something is happening with your disk access and the undo file... with each edit, it is trying to write an undo file somewhere... check the undo location... also... just to be sure if it is that... turn off the auto-undo option and try the same edits... if it has no delay, there is something going on with the undo file writes... make sure you are not pointing to a usb stick which could have very slow write times.

Bob L

[Dave Labrecque]

Have I-7, 32GB Ram on fast Asus board ... turned cores in BIOS down to 2 and hyper-threading is disabled. Chose Single CPU in SawStudio.

FWIW, Carl, I have all eight cores running on my i7 with no special settings for SAW, and it runs great. But I'm on Win 7 x64.

[Carl G.]

FWIW, Carl, I have all eight cores running on my i7 with no special settings for SAW, and it runs great. But I'm on Win 7 x64.

Are you running an Asus Board?? I put most of my settings back to default (accept disabling some power saving features)

Trying Bob's suggestions today.

[Carl G.]

I have only seen this in both xp and win8 if
the edl has 10k or more regions going on the timeline.

What I do is to lower the undo to 1 or no undo.
It seems to help.

Sebastian

I've seen that too in good XP system... but easily taken care of by Bob's convenient menu option of 'Clear Unused Regionis'. Works like a charm!

But this EDL was blank, except only 1 region (2 hours long).

[Carl G.]

Perhaps something is happening with your disk access and the undo file... with each edit, it is trying to write an undo file somewhere... check the undo location... also... just to be sure if it is that... turn off the auto-undo option and try the same edits... if it has no delay, there is something going on with the undo file writes... make sure you are not pointing to a usb stick which could have very slow write times.

Bob L

EDIT: Results:
1. When the Auto-Undo Option is turned ON the delay of 1 second edits/moves happens on any simple EDL, on both SSD Drive and SATA 3 Caviar black drives.
(with file default locations tried on each drive)
2. No USB stick involved.
3. When Auto-Undo option is turned OFF, ***Perfect blazing fast *** edit/moves times (like usual)!
4. I tried 2 core with Hyper-threading OFF on my i-7 but no difference in the above behaviours.
(also, in all circumstances... SawStudio is the only Program open and running)

More Ideas? How do I check disk access parameters? (this is happening on both the SSD and SATA 3 HardDrive)
I use the Undo like a use the backspace on a keyboard :)

[Dave Labrecque]

Are you running an Asus Board?? I just realized I have 8 or 9 gazillion adjustments in Bios (give or take a few trillion). :)
I guess if I supe'd all of 'em up I could take off to another planet.

Meanwhile I put them all back to "default"... so there would be no "fault".

Trying Bob's suggestions today.

Sorry, my mobo is an Intel. And it's an older gen (Sandy Bridge) i7, if that matters.

[Carl G.]

Sorry, my mobo is an Intel. And it's an older gen (Sandy Bridge) i7, if that matters.

I'm perplexed on this speed thing ... because mine's supe'd up....
Somewhere in BIOS there's a warp speed option like "Take me to another Planet"
(it flies)

[Carl G.]

Perhaps something is happening with your disk access and the undo file... with each edit, it is trying to write an undo file somewhere... check the undo location... also... just to be sure if it is that... turn off the auto-undo option and try the same edits... if it has no delay, there is something going on with the undo file writes... make sure you are not pointing to a usb stick which could have very slow write times.

Bob L

Bob, I FOUND the problem!!
(maybe good for others to know ... so I share)

I had a "Gigaware USB to Ethernet" adapter plugged in to a USB 3 port to temporarily 'directly' plug into my older computer for some transfers.

When I unplugged it... I had *Instant* speed back on my SawStudio Undo-writes!

So that Gigaware USB to Ethernet adapter was somehow pulling the entire write times down on my main local high speed drives!

(I'll go through the regular Ethernet port and modem next time for transfers)

THANKS for the input, all!
Great place!!

[bcorkery]

Great news Carl. Knowing that you can still use the Gigaware for transfers but as soon as you see that behavior, you'll know exactly what it is.

Thanks for sharing.

What ASUS board are you using and does it have PCI slots?

[Bruce Callaway]

Sorry, my mobo is an Intel. And it's an older gen (Sandy Bridge) i7, if that matters.Handy to know this works well for you. I am contemplating upgrading to an i7 4790. Seems like expensive overkill but I just want the 4.0 Ghz speed

[Dave Labrecque]

Handy to know this works well for you. I am contemplating upgrading to an i7 4790. Seems like expensive overall kill but I just want the 4.0 Ghz speed

I had the same feeling when everyone was saying an i3 or an i5 made more sense, value-wise for a DAW. I needed 'the full monty'. :D

[CurtZHP]

I needed 'the full monty'. :D


Eye bleach sold separately.

[Bruce Callaway]

I had the same feeling when everyone was saying an i3 or an i5 made more sense, value-wise for a DAW. I needed 'the full monty'. :DLOL, works for me.

[Carl G.]

Great news Carl. Knowing that you can still use the Gigaware for transfers but as soon as you see that behavior, you'll know exactly what it is.

Thanks for sharing.

What ASUS board are you using and does it have PCI slots?

Well... today it **didn't work**!

Something else is delaying the entire system by exactly 1 full second when I have "Undo Writes" option turned on!!

The Gigaware USB Ethernet adaptor was evidently a Coincidence (or a separate actual cause). But today with it out... I still get the same behavior!

I'm thinking that since this slow SawStudio behavior happens when UNDO write is enabled to any HD or SSD on my system, that the problem is *not* specific to a particular drive.... but some setup parameter in BIOS.

There are a lot of adjustments in there.... anybody have ideas?? (Please!)

I run an Asus Z87-Plus
Full specs here: (http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/asus_z87plus/5.htm)

[Carl G.]

Perhaps something is happening with your disk access and the undo file... with each edit, it is trying to write an undo file somewhere... check the undo location... also... just to be sure if it is that... turn off the auto-undo option and try the same edits... if it has no delay, there is something going on with the undo file writes... make sure you are not pointing to a usb stick which could have very slow write times.

Bob L

Bob,
After more more investigation I found the 1 second lag in editing functions in the MT are directly related to 5.2 update (on this machine*).

I installed 5.1 on same machine as 5.2 install (Win8.1, Asus Z87Plus, i7, 32GB RAM)
With "Undo" option enabled on both 5.1 and 5.2:
1. 5.1 performs instant edits - with no 1 second lags in editing in time line
2. 5.2 has 1 second lags in all editing on time line.

What is causing that?
Anyone else experiencing that difference?
*Could it be my BIOS setups on this machine that is causing that difference because of the changes from 5.1 to 5.2?

[Bob L]

Wow... no idea what would cause that betrween the two versions. No one else is reporting anything like that so far.

Also... it seemed that the problem was fixed earlier even when using version 5.2... then it came back... my guess is it has nothing to do with changing the version, but something else is happening on the machine that brings it back and then takes it away.

It definitely appears to have something to do with disk writes being slowed down... how about a new harddisk that has energy saving spindowns... after the disk sits idle for a time, then it spins down... then when you do an edit, it takes x time to spin back up.

What happens after the first edit that has the delay... can you do another edit right after that without the delay... that would suggest that the drives are spinning down after a certain amount of idle time.

Bob L

[Carl G.]

Wow... no idea what would cause that betrween the two versions. No one else is reporting anything like that so far.

Also... it seemed that the problem was fixed earlier even when using version 5.2... then it came back... my guess is it has nothing to do with changing the version, but something else is happening on the machine that brings it back and then takes it away.

It definitely appears to have something to do with disk writes being slowed down... how about a new harddisk that has energy saving spindowns... after the disk sits idle for a time, then it spins down... then when you do an edit, it takes x time to spin back up.

What happens after the first edit that has the delay... can you do another edit right after that without the delay... that would suggest that the drives are spinning down after a certain amount of idle time.

Bob L
True - 5.2 did work the other day!
But - today... I'm running 5.1 and 5.2 **side by side** Simultaneously, and 5.1 works great, while 5.2 has the 1 second delays on the same operations!

So, my machine is responding with a lack of performance to 5.2 with UNDO write ON, but is simultaneously blazing fast to 5.1 with UNDO Write ON.

That's a puzzle!

Regarding the drives spinning down. This 1 second delay is happening all throughout a session in 5.2 (from first use of HD through doesn't of moves/edits later.
Also, the drives are SSDs and HD's (slow action on both.... of course SSD has no spin down I'm aware of).

There are too many BIOS options to bore you with a list here (but Manual is here (http://www.manualslib.com/download/548784/Asus-Z87-Plus.html)). There are some pretty interesting adjustments available (but mine are mostly set to default). I can try turning off Multi-core and Hyperthreading... but it works fine with 5.1 now.

Also, all this testing is done from fairly simple EDL's with only a few plugins (defaulted). Next I'll try bare bones.

Anyone else with ideas which could point me in the right direction to help save me time, would be appreciated. (thanks)

[bcorkery]

Sad to hear it Carl. At least you have 5.1 to work on while we solve this puzzle. G'Luck.

[Carl G.]

Sad to hear it Carl. At least you have 5.1 to work on while we solve this puzzle. G'Luck.

Or... I can work 5.2 back on the old machine instead.
I do like the cursor Left Quarter update... but I have many reason to migrate to the new machine. The "Solution Search" is on.

[Dave Labrecque]

Carl -- in the interest of clarity, when you said...

"So, my machine is responding with a lack of performance to 5.2 with UNDO write ON, but is simultaneously blazing fast to 5.1 with UNDO Write ON."

Did you mean to say...

"So, my machine is responding with a lack of performance to 5.2 with UNDO write OFF, but is simultaneously blazing fast to 5.1 with UNDO Write ON."

...?

[UpTilDawn]

Carl -- in the interest of clarity, when you said...

"So, my machine is responding with a lack of performance to 5.2 with UNDO write ON, but is simultaneously blazing fast to 5.1 with UNDO Write ON."

Did you mean to say...

"So, my machine is responding with a lack of performance to 5.2 with UNDO write OFF, but is simultaneously blazing fast to 5.1 with UNDO Write ON."

...?

No. He means lack of performance in 5.2 = Undo ON. That's been his issue from the start, Dave. 5.1 works fine with this setting turned ON.

[Carl G.]

Carl -- in the interest of clarity, when you said...

"So, my machine is responding with a lack of performance to 5.2 with UNDO write ON, but is simultaneously blazing fast to 5.1 with UNDO Write ON."

Did you mean to say...

"So, my machine is responding with a lack of performance to 5.2 with UNDO write OFF, but is simultaneously blazing fast to 5.1 with UNDO Write ON."

...?
NO... Dave this 1 second delay on any function in the timeline is ONLY when I have UNDO write "ON".... and ONLY in 5.2.

I can have 5.1 open simultaneously on the same screen and it works fine with UNDO write ON.

So... that's the problem.... er... symptom.
What is the "problem"? (so we can solve it) :)

[Bob L]

Make sure all other preference settings are identical... so make sure to have the 5.1 install folder copied, then install 5.2 over that... this way the settings are all identical... the problem may be connected to some setting that is different between your two installs.

Or... actually use the 5.1 install folder and just copy the actual 5.2 SAWStudio.exe file into that same folder as SAWStudio_52.exe... then both will be running with everything else the same... setup two desktop icons and make sure to set them both to XP compatibility... my guess is now perhaps you do not have the compatibility mode set for the new 5.2 install... that could be making the difference.

Bob L

[Carl G.]

Make sure all other preference settings are identical... so make sure to have the 5.1 install folder copied, then install 5.2 over that... this way the settings are all identical... the problem may be connected to some setting that is different between your two installs.

Or... actually use the 5.1 install folder and just copy the actual 5.2 SAWStudio.exe file into that same folder as SAWStudio_52.exe... then both will be running with everything else the same... setup two desktop icons and make sure to set them both to XP compatibility... my guess is now perhaps you do not have the compatibility mode set for the new 5.2 install... that could be making the difference.

Bob L

I'll be on it today! Good suggestions, Bob. Thanks.

[Carl G.]

Make sure all other preference settings are identical... so make sure to have the 5.1 install folder copied, then install 5.2 over that... this way the settings are all identical... the problem may be connected to some setting that is different between your two installs.

Or... actually use the 5.1 install folder and just copy the actual 5.2 SAWStudio.exe file into that same folder as SAWStudio_52.exe... then both will be running with everything else the same... setup two desktop icons and make sure to set them both to XP compatibility... my guess is now perhaps you do not have the compatibility mode set for the new 5.2 install... that could be making the difference.

Bob L
Bingo! Copying 5.2 exe directly over 5.1 exe = perfect performance.

Conclusion: Some combination of options (or setup) causes UNDO writes to delay editing/moving regions in MT by 1 second (per edit/move.. on win8.1... on _my_ machine).

Still looking into why... but *excited* that the situation is narrowed down/solved. I'll experiment, as time allows to find out exactly what was causing the behaviour.

Thanks, Bob!

[Carl G.]

Make sure all other preference settings are identical... so make sure to have the 5.1 install folder copied, then install 5.2 over that... this way the settings are all identical... the problem may be connected to some setting that is different between your two installs.

Or... actually use the 5.1 install folder and just copy the actual 5.2 SAWStudio.exe file into that same folder as SAWStudio_52.exe... then both will be running with everything else the same... setup two desktop icons and make sure to set them both to XP compatibility... my guess is now perhaps you do not have the compatibility mode set for the new 5.2 install... that could be making the difference.

Bob L
I did a lot of testing... found the "Problem" of 1 second delay times on all actions in SawStudio --- Problem was a "UAC Workaround Shortcut" idea, (sorry, which I also posted earlier), wherein you create a scheduled task, then a shortcut trigger to that scheduled task. It sounded like a great idea - and it opened a program up fast without UAC... but because in the workaround you only apply admin privilages to *one* of the two... SawStudio evidently was being actually run *without* full admin privilages (or full compatible mode). So... under testing the same SawStudio.exe file operated differently, all depending upon which shortcut I was using to open it!

I deleted the UAC workaround shortcut, made a new standard shortcut, and bam! SawStudio is as fast as a FERRARI again!

[bcorkery]

good find Carl! Thanks for sharing this.