OT: If I may?

[Microstudio]

It was a long time ago when I learned about music and making it and one thing, actually the very thing I love about music is just being abel to make it and record it and share it.

I hate DAWS! The reason I do is because a DAW means business and profit and so does a OS and Hardware.... drain me of money. I have a hammer that's over 20 years old!

I want to make music and I do not care about any of that stuff.

Yet those companies keep pushing more things going forward pulling me from what I want and pushing me to things they think I need.

Lets talk about OS's they do the same thing and hardware developers all they want is a renew that makes all of us give more money, over and over.

IMHO it comes down to this.... buy the tool and do something with it and never blame the tool ;)

SAW/MWS..... XP-Win8/ASIO you can buy a $200 computer to run it and it will be smoking fast and stable.

Others 64bit, more memory, new more money upgrade more money need this got to have that over and over..... O wait new feature, new feature and on and on.

What do you think?

[Brent Evans]

What do you think?

You may not.

[Ian Alexander]

I don't make a lot of music, but I do make my living with this particular DAW, so I get nervous after using a computer for three years. I've had failures that put me out of business for a day or two, so I like to keep up with newer (not necessarily the latest) hardware.

[Richard Rupert]

SAW still runs on the computer I owned when I bought the software, and it will run on the "latest and greatest" computer or OS. I have no need for more "features", so I don't really share your experience, Micro.

[IraSeigel]

I had great luck with my first car, a used '71 Toyota Corolla. It had all I needed - a radio, a heater, manual windows, and it went. Then it got too expensive to keep it going. So I had to buy something newer. Rinse and repeat until now, wherein my 1995 Mercury Sable will need replacing soon.

Get things with no moving parts, generate no heat and are not susceptible to contaminants (analog or digital) from the outside world, don't expect it to do anything more than what it did the day you bought it, and your stuff will run for a long long time and be very dependable for you. You will have reached nirvana.

[Tim Miskimon]

The only time I feel that way Micro is when my studio computer dies.
Like last year and I was forced to move onto Windows 7 because the new motherboard didn't like Windows XP.
I had been using the same computer day after day for 8 years and XP for 12 years.
Then there were the days it took tracking down a new UAD card just because the new mother board didn't have enough old style card slots.
And then it took days to load and reauthorize all my software.
But yeah you are right computers can be a pain in the ass and I do think companies like Microsoft keep rushing out new versions of the same old OS just to keep making money.
Windows 7 & 8 are not such a big improvement over XP.
In fact many would argue that in many ways it's a step backwards.
Sure the bells and whistles might be cool for web surfers and touch screen apps but it just gets in the way for people using it to do music & video production.
I've been wishing for 20 years that Microsoft would make a stripped down version of their new OS - allow the user to load only the things needed for the type of work they are going to use the computer for.
There's so much junk under the hood of each and every Windows OS and it keeps growing with every new one they release.
There's no way it should take up so much disk space and no way it should take so long to install.
The way I hear it Windows 10 is full of factory installed spyware.
I'll take a pass on that and hey Microsoft I will not rent Microsoft Word.
Other than that I'm pretty happy with computers....:eek:

[IraSeigel]

...I've been wishing for 20 years that Microsoft would make a stripped down version of their new OS - allow the user to load only the things needed for the type of work they are going to use the computer for.
There's so much junk under the hood of each and every Windows OS and it keeps growing with every new one they release.
There's no way it should take up so much disk space and no way it should take so long to install.
....:eek:

The solution, then, would be to write a DAW (or port one) to a Linux derivative like Ubuntu and get sound hardware to match. But that's kind of what a Mac is, right? A Unix-based system? A MacBook Pro and Metric Halo, and software to match, would do the job nicely, too.

[jcgriggs]

SAW still runs on the computer I owned when I bought the software, and it will run on the "latest and greatest" computer or OS. I have no need for more "features", so I don't really share your experience, Micro.

"Latest and Greatest OS"? When did SAW get ported to Linux? :D

- John

[RBIngraham]

It was a long time ago when I learned about music and making it and one thing, actually the very thing I love about music is just being abel to make it and record it and share it.

I hate DAWS! The reason I do is because a DAW means business and profit and so does a OS and Hardware.... drain me of money. I have a hammer that's over 20 years old!

I want to make music and I do not care about any of that stuff.

Yet those companies keep pushing more things going forward pulling me from what I want and pushing me to things they think I need.

Lets take about OS's they do the same thing and hardware developers all they want is a renew that makes all of us give more money, over and over.

IMHO it comes down to this.... buy the tool and do something with it and never blame the tool ;)

SAW/MWS..... XP-Win8/ASIO you can buy a $200 computer to run it and it will be smoking fast and stable.

Others 64bit, more memory, new more money upgrade more money need this got to have that over and over..... O wait new feature, new feature and on and on.

What do you think?

I think it's unfortunate that you have so much time to waste pondering such nonsense and that you don't have enough work to just pay for new computers and realize that in the grand scheme of things the computer and the DAW software are typically two of the least expensive components of your home studio unless you're buying really cheap ass preamps and mics, etc.. Or maybe you're buying some really pricey DAWs or something...

Computers are at commodity pricing these days and while I don't get excited about the fact that the reasons they are so cheap is that we as a society are taking advantage of the less advantaged it doesn't motivate or keep me from just going and buying a new computer whenever I want or need one.

Bringing out new versions of operating systems and other software is what software companies do. If they didn't they would reach their potential market saturation and then promptly go out of business. (or software would have to be REALLY EXPENSIVE to pay for the years of post sales work) Like it or not that is how they stick around and continue to offer you post sales support. Windows upgrades are relatively cheap. Yeah maybe Apple's are less and obviously Linux might not cost anything. But what's a couple hundred bucks every few years. And the reality is by the time I need an OS update I'm most likely going to just update the entire damn computer anyway. So who cares. We should all appreciate and support good software more by being willing to pay for updates. (not saying that we don't around here... but in general our society now thinks all software should be free or very cheap thanks to the iOS generation, etc...)

If you're running your own business you get to write all those purchases off and can depreciate the gear over time and get a tax break. Of course your business has to make at least a little money and not be a hobby in order to take advantage of that.

Anyway seems to me all you like to do is be a troll and just beg someone to disagree with your methods of using the oldest computer you can dig out of some closest and dust off just for the sake of having a debate.


Too much?

Hey, you asked what we thought. :rolleyes:

[RBIngraham]

The only time I feel that way Micro is when my studio computer dies.
Like last year and I was forced to move onto Windows 7 because the new motherboard didn't like Windows XP.
I had been using the same computer day after day for 8 years and XP for 12 years.
Then there were the days it took tracking down a new UAD card just because the new mother board didn't have enough old style card slots.
And then it took days to load and reauthorize all my software.
But yeah you are right computers can be a pain in the ass and I do think companies like Microsoft keep rushing out new versions of the same old OS just to keep making money.
Windows 7 & 8 are not such a big improvement over XP.
In fact many would argue that in many ways it's a step backwards.
Sure the bells and whistles might be cool for web surfers and touch screen apps but it just gets in the way for people using it to do music & video production.
I've been wishing for 20 years that Microsoft would make a stripped down version of their new OS - allow the user to load only the things needed for the type of work they are going to use the computer for.
There's so much junk under the hood of each and every Windows OS and it keeps growing with every new one they release.
There's no way it should take up so much disk space and no way it should take so long to install.
The way I hear it Windows 10 is full of factory installed spyware.
I'll take a pass on that and hey Microsoft I will not rent Microsoft Word.
Other than that I'm pretty happy with computers....:eek:

NEWS FLASH: :D

Windows is written primarily for office workers and consumers to browse the web and play games and have fun with touch screen distractions (software).

It never was and never will be written with the needs of audio and video production as a primary concern. And neither was Mac OS, despite what some of those fan boys might have you believe.

There is a version of windows that does what you want, allowing for customized installations. It's called Windows embedded, it's been around for years now and it probably runs behind so many things that you can not go a single day without touching something that is somehow making use of it. :)

It's often what is running a modern lighting control console and also several hardware digital mixers (at least for the GUI).

Only one catch. It costs more because they don't sell multiple copies to every person on the planet like they do their consumer/workstation versions of the OS. And you have to know what you're doing in order to make use of it. :)

I will take my Windows 7 machines any day over my XP machines. I don't understand why folks think that is not a better OS. It certainly did not get worse. It's only worse if the software you wish to run hasn't kept up with the times and updated their stuff along with MS and the hardware makers. Yeah.. it's a game... but like it or not it's the way it works. Again going back to making money... and staying in business.

And I'm sorry but HARD DRIVE SPACE IS CHEAP!!!!!! Hell even SSDs are fairly cheap these days. Who gives a **** about how much space the OS takes up! One advantage is that you don't need to download drivers for most things when you plug them in to your computer anymore. The drivers are already on your machine. No more loading a driver just to plug in a new mouse. Seems like improvements to me and if it cost a few dozen megs of HD... fine... count me in! :)

Oh and I love my Office 365 that I pay for monthly. (actually yearly now) It's cheap. I will always have the latest versions and I can install it on multiple computers and multiple tablets and it allows me to edit things via a web browser in various web apps...... And when I got a new computer, it was a breeze to move a license over to the new unit. You can like the old way best if you want. But I think it's a great model and it works really well for those of us with multiple computers and stuff stored in the cloud, etc, etc, etc...

And I doubt what MS is doing is any worse than what Google has already done to you and you likely just don't realize it. :rolleyes:

[AudioAstronomer]

It never was and never will be written with the needs of audio and video production as a primary concern. And neither was Mac OS, despite what some of those fan boys might have you believe.

You may want to research the history of Classic Mac OS and NeXTSTEP some more.

The Current OS X may arguably have faults in the media realm, but the roots were definitely predisposed towards media applications. (edit: note that I'm not disagreeing directly, since you referenced audio/video and I'm speaking of A/V media in general, but it is worth mentioning the original A/V targeted attitude of Apply and NeXT's early offerings)


Anyway... this thread is garbage. :rolleyes:

[RBIngraham]

You may want to research the history of Classic Mac OS and NeXTSTEP some more.

The Current OS X may arguably have faults in the media realm, but the roots were definitely predisposed towards media applications. (edit: note that I'm not disagreeing directly, since you referenced audio/video and I'm speaking of A/V media in general, but it is worth mentioning the original A/V targeted attitude of Apply and NeXT's early offerings)


Anyway... this thread is garbage. :rolleyes:

I'm well aware of the history of the Mac OS and remember the original Apple coming out thank you.

Just because it did a better job at media tasks (mostly graphics work) than Win OS for many years or some marketing materials gave mention of it's graphics prowess doesn't mean it was really designed with that in mind or at it's primary purpose.

None of them are a Realtime OS or designed to attempt to be one and that is what would really show attention to AV work in particular.

I will admit to not paying too much attention to NextStep, but isn't that what lead to Mac OS X after Jobs returned?

Anyway the only OS I know that really showed any real attempt to favor the needs of multimedia work was BeOS if memory serves and it died as quick as it began. Oh... forgot there was the Amiga as well... better than anything else at the time.. but like Beta vs. VHS, the best choice rarely wins the popularity contest. :)

We definitely agree about the usefulness of the thread. :rolleyes:

[IraSeigel]

Continuing on with the usefulness of this thread....

The only reason that the early Macs were "superior" to Windows in the media realm was the software written for it. Remember Quark was a Mac-only program and was, with Pagemaker, the preferred program for compositing (composting?) print media. Aldus Pagemaker was bought by Adobe, who wanted to compete in the media realm. They bought animation and design programs from Macromedia, sound program from Centrillium (Cool Edit Pro), etc, and made them cross-platform.

And now companies like Metric Halo write their drivers ONLY for Mac, which is very frustrating because the Win7 and Win8 platforms are quite stable

But I digress...

I totally agree with RB about the commoditization of computers and the non-issue of HD space. The whole topic is a big yawn, and I sense that Micro wants to convince himself that he's fighting the true fight by not upgrading from a WinXP machine. More power to him, but the rest of the world moves on (and gets the tax writeoffs:))

I also agree with him about the subscription model for Office 365. But I hate - HATE - the Creative Cloud, and I won't participate. I'm running Audition3, I'd like to buy a cheap license for Audition CS6, but I won't rent their software. I bought the Elements package because I don't want to rent the "full" versions. Bye Bye Adobe!!

[RBIngraham]

I also agree with him about the subscription model for Office 365. But I hate - HATE - the Creative Cloud, and I won't participate. I'm running Audition3, I'd like to buy a cheap license for Audition CS6, but I won't rent their software. I bought the Elements package because I don't want to rent the "full" versions. Bye Bye Adobe!!

Well you're not the only one with regard to Creative Cloud. Almost everyone I know that has that grumbles about it in some fashion or other. I know our IT guys at work hate it and I sit across the isle from our primary IT guys and get to listen in on the colorful conversations our head of IT has on the phone with Adobe folks. :p

For better or worse I've never been a big Adobe user except for the ubiquitous Acrobat Reader and we use the full version at work. Having preferred the aural over the visual world for many years now (and I never really cared for Audition/Cool Edit) I simply have no need for anything from them except the free acrobat reader. :)

[Microstudio]

The whole topic of this thread is what you guys are talking about. Just think how much great work was done on PhotoShop and Fireworks many years ago and even today all that software works great. The topic of this thread is just that, they are tools that work and there really is no reason to have to upgrade when you really think about it or you choose not to IMHO your skills will still be as great as they always were ;)

[Brent Evans]

The whole topic of this thread is what you guys are talking about. Just think how much great work was done on PhotoShop and Fireworks many years ago and even today all that software works great. The topic of this thread is just that, they are tools that work and there really is no reason to have to upgrade when you really think about it or you choose not to IMHO your skills will still be as great as they always were ;)

Learning to paint with a new brush is a matter of growth. Failure to grow is stagnance. Art when stagnant is boring. Upgrades allow new brushes.

[Microstudio]

Learning to paint with a new brush is a matter of growth. Failure to grow is stagnance. Art when stagnant is boring. Upgrades allow new brushes.

Brushes are a bad analogy when compared to the topic here as they wear out and software does not. But then there are those that use the same type or model brushes over and over ;)

[IraSeigel]

Brushes are a bad analogy when compared to the topic here as there wear our and software does not. But then there are those that use the same type or model brushes over and over ;)

If brushes are hardware, and paint is software -
Then eventually your brushes will get hardened with paint over time and will have to be replaced. And you will want to use new colors from time to time.
Or you can keep things exactly as they are and eventually become sclerotic or boring. Either way, it doesn't reflect the creative field in which we work or play.

[Tim Miskimon]

NEWS FLASH: :D

Windows is written primarily for office workers and consumers to browse the web and play games and have fun with touch screen distractions (software).

It never was and never will be written with the needs of audio and video production as a primary concern. And neither was Mac OS, despite what some of those fan boys might have you believe.

There is a version of windows that does what you want, allowing for customized installations. It's called Windows embedded, it's been around for years now and it probably runs behind so many things that you can not go a single day without touching something that is somehow making use of it. :)

It's often what is running a modern lighting control console and also several hardware digital mixers (at least for the GUI).

Only one catch. It costs more because they don't sell multiple copies to every person on the planet like they do their consumer/workstation versions of the OS. And you have to know what you're doing in order to make use of it. :)

I will take my Windows 7 machines any day over my XP machines. I don't understand why folks think that is not a better OS. It certainly did not get worse. It's only worse if the software you wish to run hasn't kept up with the times and updated their stuff along with MS and the hardware makers. Yeah.. it's a game... but like it or not it's the way it works. Again going back to making money... and staying in business.

And I'm sorry but HARD DRIVE SPACE IS CHEAP!!!!!! Hell even SSDs are fairly cheap these days. Who gives a **** about how much space the OS takes up! One advantage is that you don't need to download drivers for most things when you plug them in to your computer anymore. The drivers are already on your machine. No more loading a driver just to plug in a new mouse. Seems like improvements to me and if it cost a few dozen megs of HD... fine... count me in! :)

Oh and I love my Office 365 that I pay for monthly. (actually yearly now) It's cheap. I will always have the latest versions and I can install it on multiple computers and multiple tablets and it allows me to edit things via a web browser in various web apps...... And when I got a new computer, it was a breeze to move a license over to the new unit. You can like the old way best if you want. But I think it's a great model and it works really well for those of us with multiple computers and stuff stored in the cloud, etc, etc, etc...

And I doubt what MS is doing is any worse than what Google has already done to you and you likely just don't realize it. :rolleyes:


No need any more to waste money on Microsoft Office.
Open Office does it all and it's free...:)

Guys give the Micro a break.
If you think the thread is garbage why even bother responding to it?
Doesn't that just add to the garbage bin?
Or maybe we all have just a little bit too much free time on our hands...:D

[mr_es335]

Tim,

...If you think the thread is garbage why even bother responding to it?......I often wonder about this myself?!

[AudioAstronomer]

If you think the thread is garbage why even bother responding to it?
Doesn't that just add to the garbage bin?
Or maybe we all have just a little bit too much free time on our hands...:D

I was interested in a small off-topic section of a post, so I replied. Similar to this reply, which is totally off-topic to the original post.

Sometimes you walk by the trash bin and see something interesting, but it's still a trash bin.

[IraSeigel]

...
Sometimes you walk by the trash bin and see something interesting, but it's still a trash bin.

A MUCH better analogy than the brushes and paint

Duck Dynasty and the Housewives of New Jersey fall into the same category.

But I digress (again)......

[RBIngraham]

No need any more to waste money on Microsoft Office.
Open Office does it all and it's free...:)



No sorry it really doesn't. Or at least not nearly as well in most cases.

There are a couple of interesting things it can do better and for many uses it makes a decent freebie substitute. But over all Open Office is what is is... a cheap (in this case free) alternative.

This is especially true if you want/need to use Outlook or if you're doing much work/collaboration within a professional environment.

If you're just balancing your checkbook on the weekends, yeah it's probably all you need.

[Angie]

But over all Open Office is what is is... a cheap (in this case free) alternative.

This is especially true if you want/need to use Outlook or if you're doing much work/collaboration within a professional environment.

Open Office is not an Outlook alternative. It is an MS Office alternative.

My experience using Open Office to collaborate on files is that it has been transparent to those using MS Office.

Now, back to the topic. The only reason I have ever had for upgrading a DAW computer is because I'm forced to by a hardware or software upgrade. Using a 6 or 7 year old computer with an OS that is "not supported" anymore, just doesn't bother me. I'm still making money with it and am just as efficient with it as I was 6 or 7 years ago.

If one wants to upgrade to the latest OS; wants to build a new "smokin'" computer, great! But there is no need to bash someone just because they don't think it is necessary.

[RBIngraham]

Open Office is not an Outlook alternative. It is an MS Office alternative.

My experience using Open Office to collaborate on files is that it has been transparent to those using MS Office.



Angie, normally I would agree with you. But Outlook is part of the MS Office Suite of products. Go into an real office enviroment (and by that I mean an actual office building, not the software) and most buisnesses are using Outlook for their email. It's a lot more than just an email tool out in the real world and the way it integrates with other tools in the Office Suite is a major feature.

So again, if you're just running a little studio and you need to balance the books and write an occasional letter, etc, etc, etc... yeah Open Office is probably all you need.

If on the other hand you want to integrate with a corporate enviroment pony up the bucks for MS Office because other corporate office are going to expect to be able to send you things like calendar appointments, and meeting requests and have you respond to them and everyone stays in sync.


Just to further the worthlessness of this entire thread. :)

[Grekim]

I use Linux for internet, mail, office (Libreoffice), and more. Not sure what the rest of the world does with Word and Excel that is so beyond what can be done with Libreoffice. The ONLY thing I use Windows for is audio.

As for upgrading, well if I were not running a studio as a business, modest though it is, it would not bother me to be running something completely out of date. As long as it met my personal needs, all would be fine. But, when you have clients at your studio I don't think vintage computer hardware and OS inspires much confidence. The issue you have to consider too is what do you do if your system goes down during a client project? Either you have an identical vintage system or you have to be reasonably up the date to make the jump to a new system. It's just part of being in business. I don't like paying taxes on a piano that gets used twice a year, but I do.

[IraSeigel]

...If one wants to upgrade to the latest OS; wants to build a new "smokin'" computer, great! But there is no need to bash someone just because they don't think it is necessary.

Angie, the original post was a rant about upgrading computers and software, and Micro asked for opinions on his rant. There was no "bashing" - just others giving their opinions, as invited.

[Butch Bos]

We need an update or something:confused: help us out Bob
This is all we have to talk about:rolleyes:

Butch

[Dave Labrecque]

+1 for OpenOffice. (which, by the way, has nothing to do with balancing your checkbook ;))

Maybe it works well for me because the last thing I want to do on earth is integrate with some corporate environment. :D

BTW, OO integrates between it's constituent programs, much as MS Office does, I presume.

The free Outlook-like alternative I use is Thunderbird. Feels much less bloated to me -- and -- it doesn't put all it's data in one big-@$$ file, which I like. It's Lightning appointment calendar add-on accepts standard .ics files, btw.

It's true, I'm sure, that there's plenty of stuff MS Office can do that OO can't. But for guys/gals like me, OO does way more than I need. And for free. :)

[Dave Labrecque]

We need an update or something:confused: help us out Bob
This is all we have to talk about:rolleyes:

Butch

:p

[Angie]

Angie, the original post was a rant about upgrading computers and software, and Micro asked for opinions on his rant. There was no "bashing" - just others giving their opinions, as invited.

And I was giving mine.

[Ian Alexander]

The free Outlook-like alternative I use is Thunderbird. Feels much less bloated to me -- and -- it doesn't put all it's data in one big-@$$ file, which I like. It's Lightning appointment calendar add-on accepts standard .ics files, btw.

Dave, I use Thunderbird, too, and generally like it, but the Inbox is one big a$$ file. Go to Help, Troubleshooting, and then click the Show Folder button next to Profile. Fiind the Inbox.

[IraSeigel]

I'm not the paranoid, tin-foil hat and armory-in-the-bunker type of person, but I confess to a little worry about Chinese-made free software. I was attacked on the ZDNet forum as making a racist statement when OpenOffice came out and it became one of their recommended downloads, but no matter what country of origin free software comes from, I think it's worth some caution and some extra awareness to security issues. With the level of expertise that hackers from many different countries have developed, how do we know that free programs like these aren't being exploited as backdoors into machines and networks? It's a question and a discussion about which I have yet to see others take seriously.

[Dave Labrecque]

Dave, I use Thunderbird, too, and generally like it, but the Inbox is one big a$$ file. Go to Help, Troubleshooting, and then click the Show Folder button next to Profile. Fiind the Inbox.

Here's what I have.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/70wmw2e5lthnr22/t-bird%20inbox.GIF?dl=0

Notice that all Thunderbird's data appears to be spread out into individual folders and files, whereas all of Outlook's data, IIRC, is put in one big PST file. One big drawback to that is with backups: every time something happens in Outlook (a new email message, for example), the whole PST file has to get backed up, again. And it was (for me, anyway) over a 1 GB file. If there's a good data de-duplication algorithm (as with my online backup service), this problem can be minimized, I suppose. But I also like the ability to go in there and fix individual data files or folders if something gets corrupted or accidentally deleted.

[Angie]

I'm not the paranoid, tin-foil hat and armory-in-the-bunker type of person, but I confess to a little worry about Chinese-made free software.

Where did you get that Open Office is Chinese-made?

[Ian Alexander]

Here's what I have.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/70wmw2e5lthnr22/t-bird%20inbox.GIF?dl=0

Notice that all Thunderbird's data appears to be spread out into individual folders and files, whereas all of Outlook's data, IIRC, is put in one big PST file. One big drawback to that is with backups: every time something happens in Outlook (a new email message, for example), the whole PST file has to get backed up, again. And it was (for me, anyway) over a 1 GB file. If there's a good data de-duplication algorithm (as with my online backup service), this problem can be minimized, I suppose. But I also like the ability to go in there and fix individual data files or folders if something gets corrupted or accidentally deleted.

Good point, Dave. There's big and then there's big. But even with separate files, the Inbox here is about 1 GB and it's only April. I liked Eudora's approach. All attachments went into a separate folder as individual files when the emails arrived. It seems nobody does that anymore.

[RBIngraham]

+1 for OpenOffice. (which, by the way, has nothing to do with balancing your checkbook ;))



I use Excel to keep track of all my accounts, checking and otherwise. Never bothered to get Quickbooks. :D

The only time I've wished I had actual accounting software was a few years where I had independent contractors working for me. (there we go now we can add to this thread with a debate about who is a contractor and who is an employee... LOL)

So see... I can be a cheap bastard too... :p

[IraSeigel]

Where did you get that Open Office is Chinese-made?

I misspoke. I was not referring to OpenOffice, LibreOffice, or QuickOffice. I was referring to KingSoft Office. They were the recommended download for Windows and Android from CNet (and perhaps others).

[Sean McCoy]

Good point, Dave. There's big and then there's big. But even with separate files, the Inbox here is about 1 GB and it's only April. I liked Eudora's approach. All attachments went into a separate folder as individual files when the emails arrived. It seems nobody does that anymore.
I still use Eudora. :o

[Dave Labrecque]

I use Excel to keep track of all my accounts, checking and otherwise. Never bothered to get Quickbooks. :D

The only time I've wished I had actual accounting software was a few years where I had independent contractors working for me. (there we go now we can add to this thread with a debate about who is a contractor and who is an employee... LOL)

So see... I can be a cheap bastard too... :p

:p

[Tim Miskimon]

Yep I use Open Office because I'm tired of buying Microsoft Office everytime they decide they need to make more money.
I mean in the 15 or 20 years I've been using MS Office there really hasn't been any earth shattering added features.
They just change a few things and keep charging for pretty much the same old rehash software - and that gets old after a while.
To be honest the 1997 version does all I need for my personal needs - it just doesn't open the files made using the 2015 version.
Fortunately Open Office opens them just fine.
I rather spend my money on something I use every day like mics, preamps & more guitar stuff - if that makes me seem cheap so be it...:)
I believe what that song lyric says "A fool and his money soon go seperate ways" - I'm not going to be another one of Microsoft's fools...:D

[Carl G.]

It's true, I'm sure, that there's plenty of stuff MS Office can do that OO can't. But for guys/gals like me, OO does way more than I need. And for free. :)

Dave, I believe most of the core development team for OO left it several years ago to form the "The Document Foundation" which I think is the umbrella for "Libre office" development.

However, Open Office (after Oracle messed things up) was continued by the Apache Foundation... and they've just released V4.1.

I use LibreOffice...here's a couple links for you:

LibreOffice vs. OpenOffice: Why LibreOffice Wins (http://www.datamation.com/open-source/libreoffice-vs.-openoffice-why-libreoffice-wins-1.html)

Comparisons - Open Office and Libre Office (http://www.howtogeek.com/187663/openoffice-vs.-libreoffice-whats-the-difference-and-which-should-you-use/)

What's the Difference between OpenOffice and LibreOffice? (http://www.techrepublic.com/article/whats-the-difference-between-libreoffice-and-openoffice/)

[Dave Labrecque]

Dave, I believe most of the core development team for OO left it several years ago to form the "The Document Foundation" which I think is the umbrella for "Libre office" development.

However, Open Office (after Oracle messed things up) was continued by the Apache Foundation... and they've just released V4.1.

I use LibreOffice...here's a couple links for you:

LibreOffice vs. OpenOffice: Why LibreOffice Wins (http://www.datamation.com/open-source/libreoffice-vs.-openoffice-why-libreoffice-wins-1.html)

Comparisons - Open Office and Libre Office (http://www.howtogeek.com/187663/openoffice-vs.-libreoffice-whats-the-difference-and-which-should-you-use/)

What's the Difference between OpenOffice and LibreOffice? (http://www.techrepublic.com/article/whats-the-difference-between-libreoffice-and-openoffice/)

Thanks for the info and links, Carl. I've wondered for a while what the hell this LibreOffice thing was. :)

BTW, I think I'm the guy who told you about Apache's "re-animation" of OO a few months back. ;)

[IraSeigel]

Yep I use Open Office because I'm tired of buying Microsoft Office everytime they decide they need to make more money.
... I'm not going to be another one of Microsoft's fools...:D

Oh, please say it isn't so, Tim!! I have my daughter's college money in Microsoft stock. Please, support all those who live in the Pacific Northwest and BUY BUY BUY. That includes Mackie, Lucid, Bungie, Lavry (or Manley, I can't remember), Amazon, Starbucks and many others. Oh, and Boeing, those ingrateful traitors....
:)

[Tim Miskimon]

Oh, please say it isn't so, Tim!! I have my daughter's college money in Microsoft stock. Please, support all those who live in the Pacific Northwest and BUY BUY BUY. That includes Mackie, Lucid, Bungie, Lavry (or Manley, I can't remember), Amazon, Starbucks and many others. Oh, and Boeing, those ingrateful traitors....
:)

I bought several Mackie products in the 90s until they started making the stuff in China - after that quality control sucks and getting parts sometimes takes months if you can get them at all. (A repair tech I know waited 3 months for power module replacements for Mackie powered speakers and finally gave up when the parts finally arrived and were the wrong parts). The customer gave up and bought JBLs.
Starbucks is over priced and Wa Wa is better for half the price.
Boeing, Amazon Lavry have my support.
You already know how I feel about Microsoft...:D
Good luck with your daughter's college money - the way this country is being mismanaged these days you might be better of buying gold and burying it in your back yard...:eek:

[Carl G.]

Thanks for the info and links, Carl. I've wondered for a while what the hell this LibreOffice thing was. :)

BTW, I think I'm the guy who told you about Apache's "re-animation" of OO a few months back. ;)

Yes, you were... and to think I once (briefly) was the "Voice" for Open Office (V 3.1)....
I had to convince some friends about LibreOffice when I switched. :)

[Dave Labrecque]

Yes, you were... and to think I once (briefly) was the "Voice" for Open Office (V 3.1)....
I had to convince some friends about LibreOffice when I switched. :)

Oh, no. This feels like the time I found out that Tony The Tiger eats Fruit Loops for breakfast! :( ;)

[bcorkery]

I still use Eudora. :oI was a huge Eudora fan. How is it you're still usin it? Mine crashed and burned a looooong time ago.

[Sean McCoy]

I was a huge Eudora fan. How is it you're still usin it? Mine crashed and burned a looooong time ago.
My office computer is running Vista, and Eudora still works in that OS. The final Eudora install program I have is from 2006, so I'll be very surprised if I'm able to keep using it when the next, inevitable office computer upgrade comes. I'll miss it, for sure.

[bcorkery]

Thanks Sean. I think mine failed me on Vista. I've been using T-Bird since.