Popup faders not working

[Butch Bos]

On the monitor view the popup faders don't seem to be connected to the controls for EQ and dynamics

Also I seem to have slipped buffers when using Fkeys that I did not in the past My load tonight was only 20% which was about 2% up from 3.1
Changing priority or single cpu did not change this in any way
Same mix on 3.1 I would only see maybe 1 slip in a hour of mixing with 4 just bringing up the right click jump menu drops 20-30

Love monitor view WAY faster setting up monitors :):)
The green line for mute latch has saved me many checks to see if it is on or not thanks

Butch

[Bob L]

OK... good find on the popup faders... that should be an easy fix...

I have heard reports of the difference in slipped buffers and am looking into it... this one is a lot more complicated to chase down though... I am on it.

Bob L

[Butch Bos]

If I can be of any help in testing I know my system VERY well and it will be used every day this week and only 2 days off in the next 3 weeks

Butch

[Bob L]

The slipped buffer issue appears to be happening only on certain systems and there so far are no useful clues as to which ones and why they suffer.

Bob L

[mr_es335]

Bob,

Just for interest...what of video card make and model and if integrated or not?

In all of my testing, I found/discovered the following:

1. Good results with integrated Intel
2. Much better results integrated/non-integrated ATI
3. Not great results with anything from NVidia

I though this might help in narrowing down the source of the problem.

[Craig Allen]

Bob,

Just for interest...what of video card make and model and if integrated or not?

In all of my testing, I found/discovered the following:

1. Good results with integrated Intel
2. Much better results integrated/non-integrated ATI
3. Not great results with anything from NVidia

I though this might help in narrowing down the source of the problem.

Not related to this specific bug, I've noticed the same thing with SAC 3.1 - my backup PC which has integrated Intel graphics isn't as good as my primary one with an ATI card. It shows a higher load and slips buffers despite being an i3. My main PC is a Core2 E8400. My laptop with nVidia was always weak despite being an i5.

[Bob L]

Its pretty mysterious... the same machines having trouble with the release versions do not have the problem with the last of the 4.0 beta versions... something is very strange... I am working on it.

Bob L

[mr_es335]

Hello,

For years I was a "die-hard" fan of NVidia...that is, until I got more involved in digital audio.

At that time, all the research that I performed on video cards for use with digital audio/digital video - most, if not all of the systems were using ATI video cards. This research caused me to re-think things.

Of particular interest, the present ThinkPad T500 I have uses integrated ATI video - Radeon HD3650.

I then built an identical system for backup purposes - using the integrated Intel and I had considerably more slipped buffers, and more often than I did with the ATI video. Interesting! I am now looking for a T500 with the ATI video.

[Steve L]

The W500 has the same ATI video but I haven't seen any on Tiger in a while. The one I have is flawless tho. FWIW SAC 4.0 seems very stable on it.
Steven L.
Audio-Video Electronics
Mountain View Recording
Richmond, KY

[Richard Rupert]

Interesting... I have a T500, and it's got a "Microsoft Basic Display Adapter". Lenovo must have used at least three different options. I do like the machine a lot.

I'm commonly running only 16 channels with three effects busses, e.q. on 10 channels, compression on 9 channels, and I don't get any slipped buffers. IIRC it runs at about a 15% to 17% load with an M-Audio LightPipe as my interface.

[mr_es335]

Richard,

I never to seem to have any problems with SAC - until, that is, I start to use certain plugins.

In particular Overloud's TH2 does not care at all for integrated Intel video - but with ATI - all is OK.

Same with Relab's LX480 plugin...OK with ATI...horrible with Intel.

PS: I am not using the LX480 much any more -as I getting similar results now with the Studio Reverb plugin - and with no slipped buffers at all, no matter what video chipset I am using.

[cgrafx]

Richard,

I never to seem to have any problems with SAC - until, that is, I start to use certain plugins.

In particular Overloud's TH2 does not care at all for integrated Intel video - but with ATI - all is OK.

Same with Relab's LX480 plugin...OK with ATI...horrible with Intel.

PS: I am not using the LX480 much any more -as I getting similar results now with the Studio Reverb plugin - and with no slipped buffers at all, no matter what video chipset I am using.

Interesting. I haven't had any slip buffer problems with TH2 and I'm running with intel integrated video.

I did have a minor TH2 audio processing bug, but that was fixed with the last release of TH2.

[Mattseymour]

Interesting... I have a T500, and it's got a "Microsoft Basic Display Adapter". Lenovo must have used at least three different options. I do like the machine a lot.


You're kidding right? That's just no display driver installed. I'd expect that to be a total disaster for sac.

[Bob L]

OK... mystery issues solved... the new version 4.0a is online. This should remove the slipped buffer issues that I have been chasing in 4.0... and the popup faders have been fixed.

The fix opened the door for some changes that could enhance overall engine performance even for Win 7 and 8... I am exploring those options now.

Bob L

[IraSeigel]

Interesting... I have a T500, and it's got a "Microsoft Basic Display Adapter". Lenovo must have used at least three different options. I do like the machine a lot.
....

My T500 gave me problems right from the start (a few years ago now). It just wasn't suited to SAC. I've posted frequently here about my problems with integrated graphics, and my recommendation to get a laptop with a dedicated video subsystem.

[cgrafx]

OK... mystery issues solved... the new version 4.0a is online. This should remove the slipped buffer issues that I have been chasing in 4.0... and the popup faders have been fixed.

The fix opened the door for some changes that could enhance overall engine performance even for Win 7 and 8... I am exploring those options now.

Bob L

That's terrific news. Also just wanted to say thanks for all of your efforts and quick response.

[Bob L]

I love this update... I am just trying to get things stable as quick as I can... I think this fix brings 4.0 well into reality.

There were so many low level changes in this update, I actually expected many more issues than have so far come up... its very exciting to see this one in action for me.

Bob L

[Richard Rupert]

You're kidding right? That's just no display driver installed. I'd expect that to be a total disaster for sac.

Am I not checking this correctly? This is a screenshot of the Device Manager: SAC Host.PNG (http://www.sawstudiouser.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2119&stc=1&d=1437659559)

[Bob L]

You checked correctly... what is being said here is that it seems that you have not installed the video card specific driver, which means your display performance is most likely extremely weak compared to using the proper driver written specifically for the video hardware.

Bob L

[Mattseymour]

As Bob says, that's a Microsoft stop gap driver that will get something on your display and allow Windows to work but all performance will be poor as Windows won't be accessing the hardware to it's full capacity. So no 2d or 3d acceleration. This means more load on the CPU and very poor screen redraw rates. I'm genuinely amazed you've been able to use SAC on this system.

[mr_es335]

Philip,


Interesting. I haven't had any slip buffer problems with TH2 and I'm running with intel integrated video....this indeed interesting!

I have to say, that the slipped buffers I DO get are very small (1-2) and very random. This does happen only when I am searching through variations. When it does, I simply restart the engine and all is OK.

[Bob L]

Try it now with the new engine... and try the cpu blocking and see if that stops it.

Bob L

[Richard Rupert]

You're kidding right? That's just no display driver installed. I'd expect that to be a total disaster for sac.


You checked correctly... what is being said here is that it seems that you have not installed the video card specific driver, which means your display performance is most likely extremely weak compared to using the proper driver written specifically for the video hardware.

Bob L

Wow, am I glad this thread was started! Thanks for this info. It turns out that I have an Intel graphics adaptor. Since the machine was working so well with the MS driver, I'll be extremely interested to see how it works with the updated proper driver. Thanks again, guys.

[Richard Rupert]

I thought I'd follow up on this. I installed the proper Intel video driver from an on-line update, and tonight had 108 slipped (inaudible) buffers. I stepped back to the original Microsoft default driver and pressed a bunch of F keys, saved the session, and... NO slipped buffers! What's up with that??

[cgrafx]

I thought I'd follow up on this. I installed the proper Intel video driver from an on-line update, and tonight had 108 slipped (inaudible) buffers. I stepped back to the original Microsoft default driver and pressed a bunch of F keys, saved the session, and... NO slipped buffers! What's up with that??

The default ms driver is a general driver usually only supporting lower screen resolutions and no video acceleration. The Intel driver will have a lot of additional configuration options. A greater number of screen resolutions, 3D acceleration, etc. You'll need to go into the driver settings and configure the video options. There should be settings to increase or decrease the video performance that should be dialed down as you don't need a high-speed video display (your not gaming). You want to give as much CPU time to the processor and keep the GPU processing to a minimum.

[Bob L]

Try to set SAC into RealTime Priority in the Options menu.

If you are using the 4.0, then try CPU Blocking as well.

Bob L

[Richard Rupert]

The default ms driver is a general driver usually only supporting lower screen resolutions and no video acceleration. The Intel driver will have a lot of additional configuration options. A greater number of screen resolutions, 3D acceleration, etc. You'll need to go into the driver settings and configure the video options. There should be settings to increase or decrease the video performance that should be dialed down as you don't need a high-speed video display (your not gaming). You want to give as much CPU time to the processor and keep the GPU processing to a minimum.

Thanks for the advice. I will try this. It's working so well now though, that I'm not sure why I should change the driver... the CPU load didn't go down with the proper driver. The only change was that I got all those dropped buffers. Still, I'll give it another shot with the changes you suggest.


Try to set SAC into RealTime Priority in the Options menu.

If you are using the 4.0, then try CPU Blocking as well.

Bob L
I'm already running in Real Time priority mode, I believe, but will check. I haven't gotten 4.0 yet, as I have no touch screen computers. I will be upgrading the software though, if only to get the other feature improvements and also to help support the ongoing great work you do.

[IraSeigel]

The default ms driver is a general driver usually only supporting lower screen resolutions and no video acceleration. The Intel driver will have a lot of additional configuration options. A greater number of screen resolutions, 3D acceleration, etc. You'll need to go into the driver settings and configure the video options. There should be settings to increase or decrease the video performance that should be dialed down as you don't need a high-speed video display (your not gaming). You want to give as much CPU time to the processor and keep the GPU processing to a minimum.

Excellent info. THANKS!

[Richard Rupert]

Okay guys, I'm afraid I must solicit some more advice from you... I can't find any way to adjust the specific settings for the Intel graphics card driver. The driver installed is this: "Mobile Intel(R) 4 Series Express Chipset Family (Microsoft Corporation - WDDM 1.1)". I can't find an applet for this software in order to adjust its settings. I went on-line with the computer and accessed the graphics adapter driver in device manager and clicked on "update driver". This is the one it chose. I'm running Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center, 64 bit, if that matters.

I can find some simple basic settings in Windows, but nothing that relates specifically to this adapter, and nothing there seems to be set inappropriately.

TIA

[mr_es335]

Richard,

Did you check for a Notification Tray section...down by the clock.

The Intel installation usually places a control icon in that location.

Have a peep: How to Disable/Enable the Intel Graphics Tray Icon (http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/CS-034108.htm)

Hope this helps?

[Richard Rupert]

Richard,

Did you check for a Notification Tray section...down by the clock.

The Intel installation usually places a control icon in that location.

Have a peep: How to Disable/Enable the Intel Graphics Tray Icon (http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/CS-034108.htm)

Hope this helps?

Hi Dell,

Thank you for your reply. Since there is no control icon in the notification area, I followed the instructions in the link you provided. All went well until I got to #3 on the instructions list, which was "Navigate to the Intel® Graphics Control Panel tab. " There is no Intel Graphics Control Panel tab anywhere. Something must be awry. :o

[UpTilDawn]

Okay guys, I'm afraid I must solicit some more advice from you... I can't find any way to adjust the specific settings for the Intel graphics card driver. The driver installed is this: "Mobile Intel(R) 4 Series Express Chipset Family (Microsoft Corporation - WDDM 1.1)". I can't find an applet for this software in order to adjust its settings. I went on-line with the computer and accessed the graphics adapter driver in device manager and clicked on "update driver". This is the one it chose. I'm running Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center, 64 bit, if that matters.

I can find some simple basic settings in Windows, but nothing that relates specifically to this adapter, and nothing there seems to be set inappropriately.

TIA

It sounds as though you simply updated the driver to the one you mention, without installing the control panel software. This can be done and many people choose to only update a driver rather than the whole software package for various reasons, so it is often made available this way.

You may need to revisit the website, download the entire package to your pc and then install it as you would any other program, if you must have it for those extra settings.

[Richard Rupert]

Hmmm... I appears that Windows 8.1 is not supported:

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/81507/Mobile-Intel-4-Series-Express-Chipset-Family

... maybe that's the problem...? In which case, I would be better off with the generic driver... or do you think I should load the Win 7 driver?

What's a mother to do? :D

[Richard Rupert]

It sounds as though you simply updated the driver to the one you mention, without installing the control panel software. This can be done and many people choose to only update a driver rather than the whole software package for various reasons, so it is often made available this way.

You may need to revisit the website, download the entire package to your pc and then install it as you would any other program, if you must have it for those extra settings.

.... ooo, perhaps you're right. Please do see my previous post however. I have a session starting soon (for which I don't use SAC or the Lenovo computer), so I may not respond for a while, but I TRULY appreciate the help I am getting here!!!