SAC remote

[Jan Kijonka]

Hi,
I would like to ask you, if the newer version of SAC remote allows to set FX plugins (e.g. Echo/Delay, Graphic equalizer, mp3play). I can only add/delete or switch the FX on/off on the remote console. I would like to play some mp3 with the mp3play VTS plugin from the SAC remote too.

[cgrafx]

Hi,
I would like to ask you, if the newer version of SAC remote allows to set FX plugins (e.g. Echo/Delay, Graphic equalizer, mp3play). I can only add/delete or switch the FX on/off on the remote console. I would like to play some mp3 with the mp3play VTS plugin from the SAC remote too.

The short answer is no. You can't use SAC remote to play mp3s.
Even if SAC remote allowed you to load the plug-in, SAC remote is just that, a remote. There is no audio engine and it doesn't pass audio from the host to the remote or from the remote to the host. It only passes control data.

[Jan Kijonka]

The short answer is no. You can't use SAC remote to play mp3s.
Even if SAC remote allowed you to load the plug-in, SAC remote is just that, a remote. There is no audio engine and it doesn't pass audio from the host to the remote or from the remote to the host. It only passes control data.

Thank you. However, it could be possible only to control the FX plugin. For example, the mp3 data would be stored on the host PC with SAC and the SAC remote could only control the mp3 player. I use an old version of SAC (version 2.1). When I double click on the FX plugin (settings) it says that the function is not implemented. But I suppose, that the possibility of controlling mp3 player and set other plugins (Echo/Delay, Graphic EQ, other) is possible.

[Bob L]

SAC can control its basic plugins (except the current Reverb) directly from the remotes.

The reverb plugin can be controlled with the use of scenes to load different chambers and settings from the remotes.

VST plugins can be installed on both the host and the remote and can then be controlled indirectly by adjusting controls on the remote and then using a special send command to the host to duplicate the resulting changes.

There are certain mp3 players that can be remotely controlled over the network as well.

Bob L

[Jan Kijonka]

SAC can control its basic plugins (except the current Reverb) directly from the remotes.

The reverb plugin can be controlled with the use of scenes to load different chambers and settings from the remotes.

VST plugins can be installed on both the host and the remote and can then be controlled indirectly by adjusting controls on the remote and then using a special send command to the host to duplicate the resulting changes.

There are certain mp3 players that can be remotely controlled over the network as well.

Bob L

Hello,
my plan is to have all the audio equipment (including SAC) on stage. I want to control Mixer mainly remotely via the SAC remote (with FOH access permission).

To see how for example the {SAC} Studio Echo/Delay sounds, I have to be in front of the stage and adjust the plugin remotely (not only via pre-defined scenes). I want to create these scenes remotely.

I use the
{VST} Dual Linkwitz-Riley Filters
{VST} mp3play2
plugins. What are the special commands for these plugins ? Where can I find it and how can I do it ?

Is it suitable to use the shared desktop in this case (without use of any remote software) ? Could it reduce the performance ?

Thank you,
Jan Kijonka

[Bob L]

As I said... the Studio echo as well as the Eq and Levelizer and Frequency Analyzer can be directly controlled on the remote... just make sure to install them on the remote as well as the host.

For the VST plugs, install them on the remote as well... thern you can open them and adjust the controls locally, then right-click the blue pyramid icon at the top of the plugin window and it will send those new settings to the host.

All this info is in the helpfile and pdf manual.

You will want to move up to the version 3.1 from your older version, or make the jump across the 4.0 version to get access to the current expanded features.

Bob L

[Jan Kijonka]

As I said... the Studio echo as well as the Eq and Levelizer and Frequency Analyzer can be directly controlled on the remote... just make sure to install them on the remote as well as the host.

For the VST plugs, install them on the remote as well... thern you can open them and adjust the controls locally, then right-click the blue pyramid icon at the top of the plugin window and it will send those new settings to the host.

All this info is in the helpfile and pdf manual.

You will want to move up to the version 3.1 from your older version, or make the jump across the 4.0 version to get access to the current expanded features.

Bob L

My SAC remote didn't contain any plugins. The folders: Native_PlugIns and VST_PlugIns were empty. I have copied the plugins from the SAC, but they don't initialize on SAC remote start up. I have tried to install any other VST plugins to the VST_PlugIns folder, but without success. The FX list is still empty. However all these plugins are working in the SAC. Please help.

[UpTilDawn]

My SAC remote didn't contain any plugins. The folders: Native_PlugIns and VST_PlugIns were empty. I have copied the plugins from the SAC, but they don't initialize on SAC remote start up. I have tried to install any other VST plugins to the VST_PlugIns folder, but without success. The FX list is still empty. However all these plugins are working in the SAC. Please help.

Sorry to butt in, but note that Bob has said that you have to install the plug-ins, not just copy them to the remote.

VST plug-ins require some fudging around to get them to show up in the FX list. The info you need is available here and probably in the manual for getting this to happen. Sorry to not be able to assist in the instruction for this... best of luck. It's not difficult.

[Jan Kijonka]

Sorry to butt in, but note that Bob has said that you have to install the plug-ins, not just copy them to the remote.

VST plug-ins require some fudging around to get them to show up in the FX list. The info you need is available here and probably in the manual for getting this to happen. Sorry to not be able to assist in the instruction for this... best of luck. It's not difficult.

Yes, but the two VST plugins:
"Dual Linkwitz-Riley Filters"
"mp3play2"
have installations that simply expands the dll files, which I copied to the VST_PlugIns folder (in this way, my plugins worked in SAC, but not in the SAC remote). The versions of SAC and SAC remote are the same (2.1).

I don't have the native plugins instalations => I only copied the dlls files. I have tried also to create ini files according to the manual, without sucess.

[Bob L]

Note that I also said to update to at least ver 3.1 (free to registered users). Code was altered in version 2.3 to allow for the remote network aware protocol.

Version 2.1 is too far back.

Bob L

[Jan Kijonka]

Note that I also said to update to at least ver 3.1 (free to registered users). Code was altered in version 2.3 to allow for the remote network aware protocol.

Version 2.1 is too far back.

Bob L

Thank you Bob. I will upgrade to the newer version. I tried to install some plugins into the 3.1 and 4.1 versions of SAC remote and it works. These versions have also the two native plugins installed by default, but my version 2.1 has no plugin installed by default. So the plugins weren't supported until the SAC remote version 2.3 ?

[Jan Kijonka]

Another question:

Will be there any SAC remote application for Android ? Especially with PER-MONx permission only ? Each participant/musician would be able to set his monitor. The console view and controls should be limited and optimized for a smaller LCD screen.

[cgrafx]

Another question:

Will be there any SAC remote application for Android ? Especially with PER-MONx permission only ? Each participant/musician would be able to set his monitor. The console view and controls should be limited and optimized for a smaller LCD screen.

Short answer is no.

SAC remote works great on any number of tablets that are now available with windows 8/10. Many of them can be had for less than $200.

The latest version 4.x already has a tablet view optimized for smaller screens.

As an example, I purchased the following Lenovo IdeaTab Miix 2 10.1" Laptop/Tablet 1.33G 2GB 64GB Win8.1 for $186

http://dv1.detati.com/clients/SAC/LenovoTouch1.JPG
http://dv1.detati.com/clients/SAC/LenovoTouch2.JPG

[Jan Kijonka]

It looks great! My idea was that the musicians will have mobile phones that still carry with them and simply install some aplication and connect (in five minutes maximum).

[Butch Bos]

A phone screen is just to small to work well
I have tried using remote desktop and midi over network stuff
I just leave a netbook on stage and the musicians grab it and adjust as needed

Butch

[Jan Kijonka]

A phone screen is just to small to work well
I have tried using remote desktop and midi over network stuff
I just leave a netbook on stage and the musicians grab it and adjust as needed

Butch

The SAC computer user rights MON (all monitors) running at some tablet is also good idea. But during the live performance, some musicians would appreciate quick access - only a few sliders on their phone LCD with acces only to their monitor MONx.

[dbarrow]

I use foobar https://www.foobar2000.org/, running on the host, to play mp3, flac, wav, etc. I control it all remotely via SACRemote and the remote browser interface, foo_httpcontrol: https://bitbucket.org/oblikoamorale/foo_httpcontrol/wiki/Home. (https://bitbucket.org/oblikoamorale/foo_httpcontrol/wiki/Home) I even have a directory with audio test wav files (sweeps, tones, dry snare hits, dry guitar samples, etc.) I can use for system testing or FX setup. Using an RME RayDAT card, I have the S-PDIF output from foobar looped back the S-PDIF input that shows up on a SAC channel. This type of setup has been referred to frequently in the past be me and others. You can probably search on pertinent terms to find those threads.

[Mattseymour]

It looks great! My idea was that the musicians will have mobile phones that still carry with them and simply install some aplication and connect (in five minutes maximum).

If this is something you want then SAC is not the right product for you. There are plenty of hardware alternatives that offer this, there will also probably be software alternatives. I would agree this is the way things seem to have gone but it's unlikely SAC will ever get this ability.

The way I dealt with this was to a have a laptop on stage running SAC remote. I gave this remote monitor only control and let musicians use it to balance their monitor mix (IEMs). That worked well. A BCR2000 along with the laptop, labelled up, meant it was one press to select your monitor mix then you've got turny knobs to adjust.

[Dave Labrecque]

If this is something you want then SAC is not the right product for you. There are plenty of hardware alternatives that offer this, there will also probably be software alternatives. I would agree this is the way things seem to have gone but it's unlikely SAC will ever get this ability.

The way I dealt with this was to a have a laptop on stage running SAC remote. I gave this remote monitor only control and let musicians use it to balance their monitor mix (IEMs). That worked well. A BCR2000 along with the laptop, labelled up, meant it was one press to select your monitor mix then you've got turny knobs to adjust.

Didn't SAC's original vision have each musician controlling his own mixer/mix with a discrete laptop? Would there be no way for Bob to do the same thing with SAC remote on discrete tablets? Seems like it would be a current-day update to the original vision.

[Angie]

Didn't SAC's original vision have each musician controlling his own mixer/mix with a discrete laptop? Would there be no way for Bob to do the same thing with SAC remote on discrete tablets? Seems like it would be a current-day update to the original vision.

Remote does work on tablets. Only windows though. I don't see why it wouldn't work alright on a windows phone too.

[Mattseymour]

Because Windows phone isn't x86. Yes you could get Windows tablets of an appropriate size and screen res for the musicians but... The benefit of many other systems is either a native android/iOS app or a web app that allows adjustment of monitor mixes. That's something that works on the smart phones band members already have.

you could just pass around a tablet or two. Use the on screen fkeys to select the mix.

[cgrafx]

The SAC computer user rights MON (all monitors) running at some tablet is also good idea. But during the live performance, some musicians would appreciate quick access - only a few sliders on their phone LCD with acces only to their monitor MONx.

everybody's phone is different. different resolution, different processor speed, etc, etc.

I guarantee you that as awesome as it sounds, "just pop open an app on your phone and change your settings", in reality its not as simple as that.

You can't view more than a few channels on a phone, so now your fumbling around trying to hold your phone, paging through faders trying to find the channel you want to change.

This has been discussed many times, do a search on SAC remote and android.

[Dave Labrecque]

Because Windows phone isn't x86. Yes you could get Windows tablets of an appropriate size and screen res for the musicians but... The benefit of many other systems is either a native android/iOS app or a web app that allows adjustment of monitor mixes. That's something that works on the smart phones band members already have.

you could just pass around a tablet or two. Use the on screen fkeys to select the mix.

Ah. Then it IS possible. I didn't get that till now.

Of course, yes, it's true that Windows devices aren't nearly as ubiquitous as Androids and iPhones.

[Dave Labrecque]

everybody's phone is different. different resolution, different processor speed, etc, etc.

I guarantee you that as awesome as it sounds, "just pop open an app on your phone and change your settings", in reality its not as simple as that.

You can't view more than a few channels on a phone, so now your fumbling around trying to hold your phone, paging through faders trying to find the channel you want to change.

This has been discussed many times, do a search on SAC remote and android.

I get 8 faders at a time on my 5-inch-or-so Android phone screen. It's not so bad. And the app I use has customizable layers, so that can help a lot. Different mixer system, though. I'm guessing SAC Remote would be comparable?

[Jeff Scott]

I get 8 faders at a time on my 5-inch-or-so Android phone screen. It's not so bad. And the app I use has customizable layers, so that can help a lot. Different mixer system, though. I'm guessing SAC Remote would be comparable?

Dave...what system are you using ....if you don't mind my asking?

AMP? or Harrison Mix Buss? Reaper?

[Dave Labrecque]

Dave...what system are you using ....if you don't mind my asking?

AMP? or Harrison Mix Buss? Reaper?

Mixing Station, which works with certain Behringer (X32 series)/Midas (M32 series) and A&H (Qu series) digital mixers. There's a FINE mode that allows fine adjustment of faders and knobs that's pretty handy on little screens.

[Jan Kijonka]

I was programming in some development environments for mobile phones (for example Xamarin):
https://xamarin.com/platform

The application can be written in C # for iOS, Android, Mac and Windows. There is no problem to create an application to work with any size of LCD screen. You can use predefined library functions, such as TCP / IP protocol to communicate with SAC.

I do not think that the development of such applications would take too long.

[Mattseymour]

We should probably be realistic, and clear about this: for various reasons this is not going to happen.

Bob has always been clear that SAC is what it is. If it suits you then great. If it doesn't then use something else. No matter how frustrating that may be, that's how things are.

If being able to work remotely with a small portable device that doesn't run x86 windows is important to you, there are alternatives. From almost any hardware console to other software offerings available.

All that said, there might be a public API for SAC one day or someone talented could reverse engineer the remote protocol and build an Android remote app. The key thing is that if SAC works for you today then fine. If it doesn't quite fit then either you have to compromise or look elsewhere.

[mojogil]

We should probably be realistic, and clear about this: for various reasons this is not going to happen.

Bob has always been clear that SAC is what it is. If it suits you then great. If it doesn't then use something else. No matter how frustrating that may be, that's how things are.

If being able to work remotely with a small portable device that doesn't run x86 windows is important to you, there are alternatives. From almost any hardware console to other software offerings available.

All that said, there might be a public API for SAC one day or someone talented could reverse engineer the remote protocol and build an Android remote app. The key thing is that if SAC works for you today then fine. If it doesn't quite fit then either you have to compromise or look elsewhere.

This is a great point. It is why I haven't upgraded to the latest version and can't see myself doing so in the foreseeable future.

[cgrafx]

This is a great point. It is why I haven't upgraded to the latest version and can't see myself doing so in the foreseeable future.


On the other hand if your still actively using SAC, then the $100 is well worth the upgrade just for the other added functionality that has been added, even if you'll never get the API or Android/IOS support.

Its still a damn fine tool just as it is, even if it doesn't fit perfectly into your specific idea of what it should be.

[Butch Bos]

Since you can buy a windows 10 tablet for as little as $99 7 inch at Best Buy
Why bother with phones

Butch

[Jan Kijonka]

Since you can buy a windows 10 tablet for as little as $99 7 inch at Best Buy
Why bother with phones

Butch

The SAC includes 24 mixer monitor consoles. Each musician can have his own mixer monitor with permission to set only his monitor console. It would be good not to buy tablet for each musician but to allow them to install a small SAC remote application on their cellphones.

If you're thinking about setting all the monitors in one place, then the purchase of one such windows 10 tablet obviously suffices.





But if I want to have an inexpensive software console, I want to invest only in optimized computer for SAC. For FOH mixer SAC remote I can use any computer, that I have for other purposes.