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View Full Version : controller support revisited - midi remapping??



TotalSonic
06-27-2004, 11:44 AM
Bob -
I was thinking maybe one way users could get user customizable advanced controller support for the newer controllers out there with hopefully minimal work to you would be to either create a utility which allows midi messages received by SAW to be remapped to other messages - or to release a text document of the midi messages received for each knob for each of the more advanced templates - and then users could use a tool like Midi-Ox to set up the remapping themselves.

i.e. - the Mackie Control template would be opened in SAW but when sending out of Controller X knob 1 which sends CC 01 could be remapped to be read as say CC07 to control the particular virtual knob the user wished it to.

This would of course prohibit bidirectional feedback for most functions but I believe would still allow people to use and customize for the new controllers that come out all the time and st. SAWusers midi re-map files could then be distributed so that additional controller support would become a no-brainer for those who didn't want to take the time to set it up themselves. It also would be nice in that it wouldn't require your time at all to create new templates.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Best regards,
Steve Berson

AudioAstronomer
06-27-2004, 01:45 PM
There is a program out there that does this.... Im searching for it now... Hooks onto your midi device and lets you remap all sorts of commands... turn velocity in CC, heck turn CC into note data (based on value)...

company who makes it starts with an A.... darnit... google aint helping... hopefully soon Ill find it.

TotalSonic
06-27-2004, 01:53 PM
There is a program out there that does this.... Im searching for it now... Hooks onto your midi device and lets you remap all sorts of commands... turn velocity in CC, heck turn CC into note data (based on value)...

company who makes it starts with an A.... darnit... google aint helping... hopefully soon Ill find it.

I think Midi Ox can do it - http://www.midiox.com

I haven't tested this yet though - so I can't be sure it would do what I want it to do. Any other suggestions obviously would be appreciated!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Bob L
06-27-2004, 03:30 PM
Steve,

Again, the newer controllers are complex... the Mackie and MotorMix are complex... there are many details besides mapping a controller number that allow these things to work... for instance, the Mackie requires a loopback of the fader command immeditaly or the fader will snap back to its old setting within millseconds... how does some utility program know this and all of these types of protocol requirements for each controller... it can't and its a waste of time to try to design one, in my opinion.

Each controller requires detailed focus and attention to their particular protocol and then internal links and new functions have to be written many times and compiled into the code to allow the commands to route to the proper routines... not one controller template is the same, and the good ones, like the new controllers coming out, with lights, readouts, and so forth are all totally different in their requirements.

And I've heard you and others tell me you just need the faders, you don't care about the lights and the readouts and so forth... bull... then why do you want to buy one of these fancy controllers... use one of the simple older ones that are general midi and use the General Midi Template.

Not having lights and feedback is stupid... how do you know if a channel is muted or soloed... what by looking at the screen... then why buy the controller in the first place... stay on the screen and the computer. :)

I have stated my position on this stuff and new templates will come when I can get to them... but everyone keeps pulling me off in tangent directions with tons of details they want changed... most of which have no real impact on getting the work done much more efficiently... all of these things holds me back from the real design updates that could revolutionize the way you work from that point forward.

Hopefully it will all come in time... but I am truly sorry that some ideas have to come before others... I can't do them all at once. :)

Bob L

TotalSonic
06-27-2004, 03:42 PM
I have stated my position on this stuff and new templates will come when I can get to them... but everyone keeps pulling me off in tangent directions with tons of details they want changed... most of which have no real impact on getting the work done much more efficiently... all of these things holds me back from the real design updates that could revolutionize the way you work from that point forward.

Hopefully it will all come in time... but I am truly sorry that some ideas have to come before others... I can't do them all at once. :)

Bob L

Bob -
Thank you for the info. Oh well - thought I had one way of making this easy to do - but I should have known if it was easy it would of already happened. Anyway - I see used CM Motor Mixes on ebay these days for around $550 - I'm hoping as more newer and "sexier" controllers come out that the price on the Motor Mixes come down to the poiint where I can't resist snagging one.

Anyway - we certainly don't want to pull you in tangent directions - just trying to give suggestions for things that we think would be valuable to see included in the future based on our own particular ways of working. Nice thing with this forum is that you can see whether other users also feel these would be valuable when they chime in with similar needs! Right now I'd say ReWire & automateable vsp/dxp loading seemed to get the most popular response out of all my wish list items based on other's users feedback.

Best regards.
Steve Berson

Bob L
06-27-2004, 06:05 PM
Steve,

I take down all the suggestions and have quite a ToDo List of wishes in my development folder for SAWStudio. :)

Many excellent suggestions have become some of my favorite features once they make it into the code.

I truly want them all in the code more than the users do... because then maybe I could get some rest. :D

Bob L

TotalSonic
06-27-2004, 11:55 PM
Steve,

I take down all the suggestions and have quite a ToDo List of wishes in my development folder for SAWStudio. :)

Many excellent suggestions have become some of my favorite features once they make it into the code.

I truly want them all in the code more than the users do... because then maybe I could get some rest. :D

Bob L

Actually for me SAW has taken on a definite feel of a really complete product in the past year and a half. Seems like all the "biggies" - like ASIO & VSTi & real time hi-res src support & recallable fader groups - have been dealt with. To me there's only a few "details" - more like icing on the cake - that stick out in my mind as definite wish list items. So please don't take it that we expect all these multitudes of requests to happen instantly - we certainly know that we can type out requests a lot faster than they can be coded - and that nothing is as "easy" as it seems.

Anyway - I greatly appreciate the way you've been making your self available to us all on this forum - and thanks once again for an awesome product which has made my audio engineering life a lot more enjoyable.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Studio de' Lara
06-30-2004, 12:09 PM
Since we are on controllers, any chance we will be able to add a Mackie Extender unit?
Not tryin' to piss you off Bob :) (I understand your thoughts on controllers), I really enjoy having the controllers in Logic (my Mac composition setup with a main unit and one extender). All my final mixing is in Studio, so it would be great to have the extra faders and pans.
Regards,
Rich

Bob L
06-30-2004, 12:59 PM
The Mackie extenders require separate midi ports, becuase each extender uses up the majority of the available 16 midi channels per port.

This is definitely a poor design in my opinion. SAWStudio is designed to stay out of the way as much as possible.. the midi ports are left free for Midi Sequencing, whether for my MWS or some other sequencer.

The SAWStudio design is set to use one midi port for control... expecting that well designed controllers would have required 1 midi channel for all of its functions... leaving room for 16 controllers.

I have no interest in modifying the core architecture of that design to accomodate the Mackie Extender multiple port concept.

Besides, the SAWStudio Mackie template gives you access to virtually every control on all 72 mixer channels with live controller chasing, and in my opinion, nulls and voids the need for a desk full of extenders.

Bob L

SoundSuite
07-03-2004, 09:17 AM
If you just want faders, mute and solo, maybe find an old Yamaha ProMix 01 for about $250-$300 US.
The ProMix01's had an issue with their audio outputs dieing, and being 'too-expensive' to replace, you don't need the audio outputs, just the midi control capabilities, so this works good, for cheap.

Most of us will agree you'll typically only rough-in the mix with the external faders anyway. Even the best , most accurate tracking controllers are a fraction of the increments the Saw fader can do.
(not at all saying the ProMix's faders are the best, they are good for rough only)

On a humor note...
The too critical, never happy musician client, none of us have ever had: :rolleyes:
-Let the musician ride the fader for their preferred mix, the whole time the fader does jack squat to the particular channel they are concerned with, yet, majically, it sounds better to them with that little extra umpfh on their channel.
...priceless to the producer and the musician's bandmates who are in on the gag.