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TotalSonic
05-22-2004, 12:18 AM
Hi Bob -
Any chance that ReWire support might be added at some point?? This is one feature I've really been desiring for a bit.

I use Synapse Audio's Orion Platinum as a soft synth / virtual sampler / VSTi host / loop sequencer because it's interface makes it really great for getting beats and loop patterns going really quickly. As a lot of my tracking work is for hip-hop or house/techno dance musics this kind of thing is pretty much a necessity for me. At this point I tend to stream each loop to a wav file and overdub linear tracks (such as vox) and then mix in SAW - as I HATE mixing in Orion because it's mixer & navigation is so much clumsier than SAW - and it's summing of tracks sounds all smeared together - where as when the same tracks are mixed in SAW it sounds like a veil is taken off.

Anyway - if SAW had ReWire support I'd be able to have the 2 apps sync with sample accuracy and have Orion's audio streams go to individual channels tracks in SAW where I'd be able to use SAW's much more elegant automation and fx processing for mixing. That'd be a dream come true for me.

I saw that you mentioned in the Q&A forum that you had looked into adding ReWire but that it dragged SAW's overall performance down - but if you maybe added an option to turn ReWire support on or off could be one way around this. Anyway - this is something I really really could use - and I know there are probably a lot of Orion, Fruity Loops, Reason, Ableton Live, and other ReWire capable app users out there that would feel the same way.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Bob L
05-22-2004, 01:44 AM
Steve,

I have the SDK and perhaps I will be able to add it in sometime soon, but there are still a few issues I have to work out first.

But you know how these things go... one day there's trouble and the next... all of a sudden a solution presents itself :)

Bob L

ghowardjr
05-22-2004, 10:46 PM
I agree with Steve here. If Rewire can be turned on and off, it would be a mighty nice enhancement for the SS family of products. In my opinion, one of the few missing features for those looking to do full-scale productions "within the box" using VSTI's and the likes of Ableton, Reason, etc. Since your goal is the complete virtual studio, I think REWIRE support is very consistent with that vision.

Gary

andykern
05-23-2004, 06:24 AM
Another vote for ReWire.

Carey Langille
05-23-2004, 07:33 AM
Rewire would be a nice addition eventually, but right now i would like to see Bobs time spent on the Midi Workshop, Video Workshop, More cool tutorial Videos, VSTi Timing addition. Things that will make what we currently have even tighter!. Then maybe rewire, and other cool things... IMHO....

Bob L
05-23-2004, 09:26 AM
I'd sure like to do em all. ;)

It takes the time it takes... but it is interesting to me to look back on the evolution of SAW and see how many ideas and features have ended up in the current versions... stuff I know I would have never believed possible only a few years back. :)

Bob L

Burkeville
05-24-2004, 01:54 AM
Poor Bob. We fight over his time.

One of my little dreams has been for SS to chase time code. I am using a 3/4 machine and it would be cool for SS to chase it . So much faster than it chasing SS. I have to get into digi video but I am worried about having to do capture and dropping frames. Maybe my clients can supply it for me. My next box will import export video.

bv

TotalSonic
05-24-2004, 07:34 AM
Poor Bob. We fight over his time.

One of my little dreams has been for SS to chase time code. I am using a 3/4 machine and it would be cool for SS to chase it . So much faster than it chasing SS. I have to get into digi video but I am worried about having to do capture and dropping frames. Maybe my clients can supply it for me. My next box will import export video.

bv

Hi Burkeville -
The fairly easy work around problem to this is to get an inexpensive midi box that can covert smpte to MTC and have SAW chase the MTC. I agree that direct support of chasing smpte would increase SAW's use by commercial facilities that regularly have to have their DAW's sync to analog or video decks.

For working with digital video SAW's Video Track truly revolutionizes things and to me is a lot easier to deal with than syncing decks. OMMV.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Bob L
05-24-2004, 11:30 PM
Steve's got that right... once you use the video track its pretty hard to ever go back to chasing Smpte. :)

I know... the rest of the industry still wants to chase decks around.. but perhaps SAWStudio will help to start to change that sooner than you think.

Since the video track and overlay video hardware output, I guess I have put Smpte away in a drawer somewhere... I know the direct Smpte chase still has to go into the program... I'm just not that excited about that code anymore. :)

Bob L

brian
06-03-2004, 04:52 PM
..just casting another vote for ReWire support ;)

Edit: not sure why it says I'm a SawPlus32 user, this is for SAWStudio

weld
06-16-2004, 11:52 AM
Another vote for Rewire ..

I'm using Nuendo2 with Reason by rewire.

A serious option to include .

I was playing a few hours with saw and cut my head ....I'ts time to change my Nuendo2 for SAW. It's amazing , have no words to explain what I feel...
Thank's Bob for your Work.

when Rewire included , I'm gonna buy SAWStudio.( I need it )

Please do Rewire walk , I'm in love with Saw.

Thanks again.

Sorry for my English and all the best from Spain !!!

No more Steinberg bugs and rules.

Thanks , thanks , thanks .... Bob

Bob L
06-16-2004, 12:02 PM
You can use Reason now and simply export the audio wav files from it or actually loop it back around into SAWStudio.

I am not sure if I will and how long it will take to attempt to fit rewire into the engine.

SAWStudio is there for the enjoyment now... use it for what it already does and have a good time with it as it is. :)

Bob L

weld
06-16-2004, 12:30 PM
You can use Reason now and simply export the audio wav files from it or actually loop it back around into SAWStudio.

I am not sure if I will and how long it will take to attempt to fit rewire into the engine.

SAWStudio is there for the enjoyment now... use it for what it already does and have a good time with it as it is. :)

Bob L

I'll do that !!

Amazing your support too....

Double working!

Thank's a million Bob.

cheers

Bob L
06-16-2004, 10:57 PM
You know, using the Virtual Audio Cable mentioned in another thread and found at http://www.ntonyx.com/vac.htm is really not much different than how you would use Reason with Rewire if SAWStudio had Rewire working.

You would be assigning Reason to send data to Rewire ports, that SAWStudio would then read and record.

Using the VAC, you do the exact same thing with virtual device ports, and I don't have to modify the engine and possibly compromise engine performance while I'm polling Rewire ports.

Bob L

TotalSonic
06-17-2004, 06:22 AM
You know, using the Virtual Audio Cable mentioned in another thread and found at http://www.ntonyx.com/vac.htm is really not much different than how you would use Reason with Rewire if SAWStudio had Rewire working.

You would be assigning Reason to send data to Rewire ports, that SAWStudio would then read and record.

Using the VAC, you do the exact same thing with virtual device ports, and I don't have to modify the engine and possibly compromise engine performance while I'm polling Rewire ports.

Bob L

Bob -
For Mixtreme users we can also do this without using VAC by just routing through the Mixtreme mixer.

The essential element missing though doing these things from what ReWire gives you is sample accurate sync between the 2 apps. The other thing is that it allows the mix channels to be readily available to the end user without having to spend much time setting this up.

While the Midi Clock / SPP output from the JMS Metronome can trigger apps like Orion, Reason, and Ableton Live, I've found that the timing can get drift or get disrupted too easily for it to be a really workable solution. I believe Jon used the timing triggers for the Meters off the SAW API for his Midi Clock triggers. Perhaps if SAW could send out more stable Midi Clock / SPP directly from the app our needs for ReWire would be diminished.

I still feel it would be an elegant solution for streamlining work flow for my sessions where I have to overdub vocals and live instruments over what is primarily beds of loops, and then be able to use the superior mxing abilities of SAW. Currently having to bounce to disc interrupts the flow of the session for me. Having ReWire be an option (that hopefully could also be turned off so as to not drag down performance for sessions that don't need it) I think would make SAW a much more attractive product to a wide variety of DAW users. I think from the responses we've seen on this forum that I'm not the only one who could use this also.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Bob L
06-17-2004, 08:33 AM
Well, I'll see what happens with further Rewire development.

By the way, the timing loop that I use for the MWS and the Video Track is available to all SAWStudio API plugs... I don't think I've seen much more stable timing than that anywhere. :)

Bob L

TotalSonic
06-17-2004, 08:52 AM
Well, I'll see what happens with further Rewire development.

By the way, the timing loop that I use for the MWS and the Video Track is available to all SAWStudio API plugs... I don't think I've seen much more stable timing than that anywhere. :)

Bob L

I think Jon might have added the Midi Clock to the JMS Metronome before MWS was out - maybe if he gets a chance he could update it. I'll send him an email and see whether he actually has time these days - his band, The Mosquitos has been mighty active with lots of touring (partly in thanks to how good their CD sounds due to it being 100% made in SAWStudio :) )

Best regards,
Steve Berson

AudioAstronomer
06-17-2004, 11:01 AM
What I think would be the best solution is a Rewire plugin inthe sawstudio API.

This would be very easy to implement and a superior implementation. I have used rewire in MANY applications. Some that have it 'built in' and some that simply use it in a plugin style. And the plugin style offers much more flexibility.

Maybe it would be possible for someone to program, perhaps asks one of the active sawstudio developers. Anwida, brainspawn, jms etc... Im sure with brainspawn's forte they would be able to know out such an idea in an hour easily. Im ver familiar with the rewire API and Ive been studying the saw plugin API I think I could even do it in a few hours... but The fine forward-thinking folks at propellerheads wont give the rewire dll to just anyone. Certainly a good idea on their part.

this is by far the easiest and immediate solution, yet at the same time the most elegant.

AudioAstronomer
06-17-2004, 11:12 AM
http://www.propellerheads.se/technologies/rewire/index.cfm?fuseaction=get_article&article=developer&nc=8054103

There is the necassary information. It is actually a quite easy thing to add after looking through some dox I found through google. Ive seen reports of 3 other developers adding support in under an hour as I previously though possible. Only possible problem I can see is the rewire instrument trying to make the host sync to it, rather than the host creating sync for the instrument. Im not entirely sure which happens or if it's an option without proper documentation.

Bob L
06-17-2004, 12:21 PM
Robert,

A plugin would be a great solution... most likely the direction I would go if and when I can get around to the details... that way, the engine would only be affected when Rewire is being activated... I'm not sure what the issues will be, but it definitely sounds like the best way to go.

Bob L

TotalSonic
06-17-2004, 12:28 PM
Robert -
I'd be very very glad to send you some cash if you came out with the RR SAWStudio ReWire Plugin!! If you indeed can code this - please be my guest!! :)

Bob -
If Propellerheads has already forwarded you the ReWire dll is there any way you could forward it to Robert if he actually took an interest in writing it??

Best regards,
Steve Berson

AudioAstronomer
06-17-2004, 01:26 PM
I dont wish to interfere with the licensing Bob is subject to by receiving the ReWire development kit....

As for writing it, I really do think bob would be a better candidate if it were to be done right quick. Id still have to put in a bit of time to become fully acquanted with the saw api. Im in plenty of bad habits as it is by using the VST 2.x sdk :) Oh yeah, and my knowledge of even the most basic windows GUi is nill :) Once again spoiled by the VSTsdk, and *nix. My original quote of a few hours was assuming I didnt have to write a UI. Make that a week or two heh.

I am still confident I can mange to get this done fairly quickly if Bob does not. If such things because a need for the community Ill gladly shift my spare-time focus from personal music production to programming again. Music is frustrating me enough these days a it is.

AudioAstronomer
06-17-2004, 01:30 PM
I think Im going to speak with my wife tonight about that in fact...

Bob, is the contact information in the SawStudio FX API correct? If not, can you please update it? thanks :)

Bob L
06-17-2004, 03:02 PM
I had to jump through a few hoops to get the Rewire SDK... I felt it should have been more readily available... but I do not want to step on any agreements I signed by obtaining it.

The SAWStudio API that is on the website is plenty current enough for the routines needed to try the Rewire plug... although there are a lot more internal functions that are not documented there.

I have been trying to get to updating the document for many months now, but too many other things keep getting in the way.

I have no idea when I will get to the idea of the Rewire hooks, and anyone who can take that job on themselves would be more than welcome in my book, but definitely let me know for sure, because I would hate to run into some of the issues of someone spending a bunch of time and I don't know about it, and then I decide to do it one weekend and make it available.

We have seen this kind of thing before and it created some unintentional bad feelings along the way.

Bob L

AudioAstronomer
06-17-2004, 03:55 PM
I will certainly let you know if I do embark on this Bob. I think you're certainly more well suited to do it, so Im going to take some time to work on my knowledge of the windows environment. And of course it will require some maneuvering to obtain a license to do so.

I think it is something worthy of spending a weekend on though :) I would venture to say easily 70-80% of current users use software with rewire capabilities, and at least 50% use or intend (with saw) to use rewire often. Of course this is a big feature for potential users as well.. blah blah blah

Honestly I think it really helps bring in other elements that are very useful to modern production. And fortunately it's one of the better presented and supported (you can call propellerheads direct with questions) API's out there.

earthpig
09-22-2004, 02:36 AM
Just another vote for rewire support please :) It seems to be catching on, samplitude v8 will have it and I see the adobe audition 1.5 (prev cooledit ) has it now has well.

Sebastian Eskildsen
09-22-2004, 09:56 AM
a vote for rewire :) I got the Reasen2.5 4 month ago, and I am
really beginning to like this little machine park of synths.

Sebastian

AudioAstronomer
09-22-2004, 11:07 AM
I just put in to get the rewire stuff.... lesse what propellerheads says this time....

:-\

TotalSonic
09-22-2004, 12:58 PM
I just put in to get the rewire stuff.... lesse what propellerheads says this time....

:-\

Robert -
As I've said before - I will very gladly send you cash for a SAW Native ReWire plugin!!! Here's hoping that Prop Heads don't make you jump through hoops to get the API.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

brian
09-23-2004, 07:55 AM
*bump*

Casting a second vote. I would be in heaven being able to use the Reason synths in SAW.

bertie
09-24-2004, 06:52 PM
hi People, :)

I am also a huge fan of Reason but actually.....I am using Reason 2.5 in SAWStudio through VAC Virtual Audio Cable Software :) and i don't need the ReWire Option to use it through SAWStudio :D, and i also use Standalone VST synth's using this VAC, and i do not patch them directly into MT anymore to slow down my SAWStudio :)

VAC is your solution :cool:

Bertie, (v3.7b)

Carl G.
09-24-2004, 07:41 PM
Rewire would be a nice addition eventually, but right now i would like to see Bobs time spent on the Midi Workshop, Video Workshop, More cool tutorial Videos, VSTi Timing addition. Things that will make what we currently have even tighter!. Then maybe rewire, and other cool things... IMHO....

While were all fighting over Bob's time :) I would like to 2nd a vote for "Video Work Shop" !
Carl

Architect
12-10-2004, 10:52 PM
Another Vote for rewire! Although very late on this thread.