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View Full Version : Bob are we thinking about this??



spiritman
07-01-2004, 07:47 PM
OK, How about DSD encoding? Any plans for this? I hope this is the new "PCM" format. Flame on folks..

canipus
07-01-2004, 08:13 PM
The last time I looked at DSD there was no technological advantage encoding decoding to and from PCM. The advantage of DSD editing comes from taking bitstream based data that has been direct converted from analog to DSD and then processing within the DSD domain. I'm not sure anyone wants to convert DSD to what we use now and then reconvert back just so they can produce a DSD recording because you won't get DSD quality. Its a similar analogy to recording at 16 bit 44k then converting to 24bit 96k and then downconverting to 16 bit CD again. Your basic quality is governed by the 16bit 44k resolution. Most of the major DSD production houses are using DSD editing software based on the Sony/Philips specs - and there is very little s/w available. The A/D D/A stages are direct analog to DSD and DSD to analog.
I think the editing s/w costs the earth.

Bob L
07-01-2004, 08:19 PM
No plans at this time until it starts becoming more common and the hardware and software drivers become available and affordable. :)

I have plenty of other things to spend my time on that will make much more of a real impact on our ability to produce music and sound design for film and video.

Bob L

spiritman
07-02-2004, 03:24 PM
Any one care to put forth an opinion on the DSD format?

AudioAstronomer
07-02-2004, 06:24 PM
I dont own a single DSD or dsd stem product. No need to. Requires more processing, more memory, more hard drive space for "quality" that we dont even need.

And the fact that 99% of the users of my end product dont even know what dsd or sacd is... well Im not going to invest 90% of my budget into 1% of the projected audience. That's absolutely foolish!

mghtx
07-03-2004, 05:22 AM
Most people are happy with their CD's. The idea of the DVD that acts as a regular audio CD in a CD player is cool.

Not too many people want to buy a bunch of new hardware (players) and also buy material they have already. Again!

Technology is moving so fast.....the average joe is confused. Is it 5.1, 7.1, 12.1? Surround is cool but you got to be in the center to feel the magic.

It's like computers are so powerful now but the average person just needs to get on the web, check and send email, do something with word, etc. You don't need a 3 Gig cpu to do that. Anyway............

TotalSonic
07-03-2004, 05:50 AM
I did get a demo of SACD at one of the audiophile store's here. They were playing Miles Davis's classic "Kind of Blue" remastered to DSD, where they had done a direct transfer off of the original 3 track master. It was pretty stunning - then again it might have been the Totem Acoustics speakers being driven by over 10g's worth of amps that I was hearing that was actually making the difference :)

DSD's main niche to date has been direct recording (for either 2 track or surround) of live performances - i.e. jazz or classical - as it's processing requirements make it difficult to work with for overdubbing.

DSD certainly holds promise as a great sounding alternative to PCM - the big question is whether it truly offers any major sonic advantage over 24bit/96kHz PCM recordings using high end converters. i.e. to me improvements in your monitoring system will make more difference than the format being played back at the time. The main difficulties to me is that to do any processing to the DSD stream you need to either go out to the analog realm or convert to PCM, and that there is no reference disc format for SACD (i.e. you can't burn a CD-R or DVD-R that will playback in an SACD player - you need to provide the replication plant with a DDP image on Exabyte/DLT/etc.)

Anyway - if you do want to get into DSD there are a number of somewhat affordable & well developed systems available now - for example SADIE and Pyramix - http://www.merging.com

Since these are readily available I don't see why Bob should get distracted by taking SAW into a new area which most likely won't be rewarding - especially considering SAW's essential design as a multitrack recording/processing tool.

If you're unhappy with your PCM recordings on playback I highly recommend upgrading your converters. When playing back with the Lucid DA that I have at Europadisk it basically sounds like a veil is taken off of the high end in comparison to the Sony/Lynx/Sonic/Neve DTC/HHB/Tascam options we have there also.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

AudioAstronomer
07-03-2004, 06:54 AM
You like lucid over sony's high-end offerings?

Hrm.


The sonic benefits of DSD are very small as it is. No need for 100khz bandwidth when you cant even bloody hear above 20khz.. most people cant even hear above 16khz. (how many times have you walked into a room and asked why the tv is on and everyone looks at you weird? you know what Im talking about..) Of course PSW is a better place to discuss this, it's been well shown by frindle, nika and myself of the total lack of benefits of this "technology" :)

TotalSonic
07-03-2004, 07:00 AM
You like lucid over sony's high-end offerings?

Hrm.


Hi Robert -
We don't have any Sony high end DA at Europadisk - just slightly older Super Bit Mapping 20bit stuff - so I haven't made any comparisons in this regard.

Lavry and Benchmark also sound better to me than the Lucid - but the Lucid is pretty darn nice. At a certain point the law of diminishing returns kicks in.

Best regards,
Steve Berson