Newbie with a few questions before buying.

[celebritymusic]

Hi

I have just dowloaded the SAW demo, and have a few questions. It's hard to find the answers in the forum myself, as it's hard to sort through and find the latest posts.

- does Saw have any sort of track, vsti, or FX Freeze type function.
- Does Saw have any sort of pitch editing functions such as those found in Melodyne or Samplitude?

I'm a current Cubase SX user, and am used to right clicking the mouse to bring up a quick tools menu, for manipulating the audio files in the main arrangement window. Is there an easy way to access tools for quickly dragging audio files around, cutting them up, stacking multiple takes in the one lane to create comps (it's 3am here, so my brain ain't working right - these answers are probably elementary)?

I have 1 UAD-1 card, have just bought another, and am looking at getting a third so that I can run lots of their plugs. How do the Saw plugs compare to the UAD-1, and should I bother geting the third UAD-1 card?

Convince me that SAW is worth $2500 (i'm not being negative, I just want some convincing arguements as to what this program has that others don't to justify the extra dosh).

The learning curve seems steep after being used to using Cubase SX - there are completely different ways of moving/manipulating the audio tracks that at first don't seem as quick and easy as in SX. Is SAW's way better?

Thanks for the info!!!

Best regards

Shaun Thomson

[Leadfoot]

Why do you want to change from cubase? is there something about it you aren't happy with? Saw is so different you may not ever "get it". Just want to know before we spend a lot of time and effort telling you how great Saw is :)

Tony



Hi

I have just dowloaded the SAW demo, and have a few questions. It's hard to find the answers in the forum myself, as it's hard to sort through and find the latest posts.

- does Saw have any sort of track, vsti, or FX Freeze type function.
- Does Saw have any sort of pitch editing functions such as those found in Melodyne or Samplitude?

I'm a current Cubase SX user, and am used to right clicking the mouse to bring up a quick tools menu, for manipulating the audio files in the main arrangement window. Is there an easy way to access tools for quickly dragging audio files around, cutting them up, stacking multiple takes in the one lane to create comps (it's 3am here, so my brain ain't working right - these answers are probably elementary)?

I have 1 UAD-1 card, have just bought another, and am looking at getting a third so that I can run lots of their plugs. How do the Saw plugs compare to the UAD-1, and should I bother geting the third UAD-1 card?

Convince me that SAW is worth $2500 (i'm not being negative, I just want some convincing arguements as to what this program has that others don't to justify the extra dosh).

The learning curve seems steep after being used to using Cubase SX - there are completely different ways of moving/manipulating the audio tracks that at first don't seem as quick and easy as in SX. Is SAW's way better?

Thanks for the info!!!

Best regards

Shaun Thomson

[celebritymusic]

What attracts me to SAW over SX is that it is supposed to be much more CPU efficient, and that the support looks fantastic. I also like the console functions (comps, eqs, gates) in saw.

I just want to make sure that I'm not going to be left short, or miss anything from Cubase. It's hard to suss out a new proggie, cause it takes weeks of solid use before you can tell if a proggie is for you or not.

My main deisre is for a track freeze function, and also for some good pitch manipulation features, like that found in Melodyne (only I want better sounding).

I also need to know if I should bother buying a third UAD-1 card if I'm going to get SAW?

Can I monitor insert FX (Nigel guitar amp sim, VST compressors) on a track whilst I am recording onto it in SAW?

Thanks!

Shaun

[Leadfoot]

That's cool, it helps to know some reasons why you might want to switch.
At work right now, can't get into the details, but I'm sure many will help you here. As far as Melodyne, I haven't heard a better pitch manipulating tool anywhere. I think most here agree it's possibly the best there is. I would think if there's something you can't fix with it, it should be retracked.. just my opinion of course. As far as the other stuff you mentioned, generally speaking I think Saw has the bases covered. The comps and eq's sound very good. Lot's of great native support for 3rd party plugs too, quality stuff. I know Perry is using UAD's with Saw and turning out some of the best recordings I've ever heard. So yes the power is there. And as a long time Saw user I can tell you it is the most solid stable app available. Support? doesn't get any better than the family here :)

Hope you join us soon!
Tony

[Les Woollam]

Take a close look at Bob's videos - they really helped me get a feel for what the programme is capable of. Also, listen closely to the sonic quality of SAW Studio - IMHO nothing else can touch it :)

[Bob L]

Shaun,

Welcome to the forum. You will find that SAWStudio is quite different than what you are used to... but with an open mind and a little experimentation, you may find out why it's built differently... in the end... it should offer you powers you never dreamed of and speed and efficiency like you've never experienced in your current environment.

Beyond the interface differences, one of the most immediate things you may start to notcie as you play around with the demo is the audio quality of the mix engine... blending dozens of tracks and mixing and processing them leaves you with a smooth analog sound... very un-digital like. :)

The best way to get a feel for the interface design is to first watch the demo videos online and pay attention to how I move around the system... learn the navigation concepts and keystrokes... definitely get a feel for the F-Key Workspaces... these are the most powerful and basic tools you will use in your SAWStudio experience.

Then, I would suggest to listen to some of the basic tutorials online... at least look at the images... there are many great visual details there to get you started.

Above all... have some fun with the system... do not fall into trying to make it work like Cubase... it doesn't and if you do follow some of the other newbie threads, you will see how they usually turn out... after much screaming and desperation trying to make SAW work and look like their favorite app, they finally get a glimpse of how wonderful it is that it is not like their favorite app. Then they're off an running... and there is usually no turning back from there.

Yes, you can monitor VST synths, live in realtime, and you can record them dry while you monitor fx and reverb... or record the fx... etc... but there are many things you will want to learn about the signal routing capabilities first before you get stuck there.

Editing can't be faster once you learn the commands... there are very few popup menus and dialog boxes... this speeds the working process drastically once you learn the concepts.

Read the helpfile from start to finish first... before getting lost in the interface.

It can all be a fun journey... and the end results can change the way you work with audio from then on.

Good Luck,

Bob L

[Yura]

Shaun,
what you mean "track freeze function", elaborate please.

[Bob L]

The Track Freeze is used to process a track down so it no longer beats up the cpu with fx processing.

In SAWStudio you would use the BuildMix to HotTrack function to do something similar. Once the single track or group of selected tracks have been built to a mix stem, I usually then place the stem on a new layer on the same track so I can always go back and rebuild if I need to make changes.

Bob L

[Les Woollam]

I record quite a few jingles and use the build mix to hot track function a lot.
A popular technique in recording jingles is to 'triple stack' the vocals - in other words, 3 near identical takes to give a fat vocal sound. So that the number of tracks doesn't get too unweildy, after each triple stack I mix the 3 tracks to another track using build mix to hot track function. I guess it's a bit like 'bouncing' tracks on reel to reel multitrack.
A very useful feature.

[Bob L]

Yup... although there is no loss here... you can bounce and bounce all you want without worrying about degrading the quality. :)

Bob L

[celebritymusic]

Hi Guys


WOW - thanks for all your responses!!!! And very nice to hear from the creator himself (is Steinberg a phantom?)

OK - I'm up for the learning curve - downloading the vids now (half speed dialup, so will take a couple of days).

When I was talking about Melodyne, I was wondering if there is anything like it built into SAW? My desire is to be able to perform Melodyne-like pitch detection, and then be able to drag the 'note's around as I like, but from within the 'arrangement' window, eg - imagine if you could zoom in on a wavefile, hit a button to put it in 'Pitch' mode, the wavefile expands vertically, detects the pitch of the note, and separates them out, ready for you to alter. Hit the pitch button again, and it reverts to normal wavefile view again. All the pitch edits would remain until you decide to HotTrack the wavefile. ALL THIS FROM WITH THE ARRANGEMENT WINDOW (no having to leave the program).

Melodyne is cool, but it's a pain having to 'record' the tracks to be altered into it, and then leave the DAW to work in Melodyne. And anyway, on playback via my current DAW, the timing shifts, so I have to manually import the files back into SX. AARRGGHH- not creative at all. My suggestion above - CREATIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All tracks available for comprehensive pitch altering at any time.

I know some people will say 'sing in tune', 'retrack the take' blah blah blah. In the interests of creativity, it would be a nice function, and what doors would it open to new ways of playing with, not just fixing audio.

Any thoughts?

Thanks again!

Shaun

[AudioAstronomer]

There is a new plugin coming from sonoris I beleive, you could freely automate pitch changes in the MT.

Did you get the PM I sent btw?

[Bob L]

You can use the Sony (Sonic Foundry) pitch shifter... or better yet, AutoTune in auto mode live on any track or sub track...

Once you learn SAWStudio, you may find that the built-in Varipitch is the way to go for subtle pitch shifting... it is not a Time Compressing shifter... so it does shorten or lengthen the note, but it is so easy and powerful... you can split any particular note or phrase into a region and then apply the varipitch in 1/100 of a semitone... this is live... so there is no pre-processing needed... simply playback... then make the adjustment if needed... the tiny gap created by shortening or lengthening the region is usually no problem at all for vocals or horns or anything that is being mixed into a multiTrack project.

Another advantage to this method is there are really no artifacts or quality loss because it uses the adjustable SRC routine to do the process... You can control the quality of that routine with a menu option.

Bob L

[celebritymusic]

SAW looks great, and I can see how much quicker it would be to work in once I've learnt the interface.

I have watched a few of the videos, but they don't help much with a few basic things eg I see the views being zoomed in smoothly, but can't figure out how to do that myself, and I can't work out how to select and move regions in the multi-tracker.
Is it possible to display the layers of a track one above the other like lanes for comping, and how is this done?

I noticed in the video that Bob is cutting out mistakes and dragging the regions together. Once overlapping, do the regions crossfade automatically, and if not, how is crossfading performed? How do you cut regions?

Some of these questions may seem basic, but I think they are natural for someone used to working with pop-up tool boxes that let you select siccors, mute tools etc...

When using a time compression plugin insert, how do you apply the compression to the actual waveform (so that the waveform actaully changes), and it there a way of making a waveform stretch to fit a specific area (by using markers?)?

Is the vsti BFD compatible with SAW?

Witht the good will method of paying, what is the deal with program updates? Do you have to start paying again everytime there is an update?

Thanks!

Shaun

[Les Woollam]

Bob's suggestion of correcting tuning using varipitch may seem like a 'fudge', but, if used sparingly, works extremely well. I had an instance only the other week where a male vocal was noticably flat on one sylllable - dead easy to fix by splitting the region (using the K key) at the beginning and end of the syllable, and just tweaking the varipitch on the 'syllable region'. Best of all, as Bob says - no artifacts. Try it!
With regards to the questions about moving regions - I'm sure Bob and other SAW users will be only too pleased to give you detailed answers, but do yourself a favour and download the tutorials - they're very easy to follow, and with the voice over and graphics, it will all become crystal clear.
Hope you decide to 'come on board'. I too was in your position last year - my only regret was taking so long to make my mind up!
You'll soon find that this programme is seriously fast and has a very good 'feel-good' factor :)

[Veit Kenner]

Hi Shaun,


I have watched a few of the videos, but they don't help much with a few basic things eg I see the views being zoomed in smoothly, but can't figure out how to do that myself, and I can't work out how to select and move regions in the multi-tracker.
besides the training videos there is an extensive online training at the SawStudio website. Go to http://www.sawstudio.com/training_library.htm The pages are techically speaking in a relative simple design, just audio, pictures and text, so that even with a low bandwidth connection it should be possible to access them. There you will find almost all aspects of SAW explained in great detail. I think you can even download the tutorials. It's well worth it.



Is it possible to display the layers of a track one above the other like lanes for comping, and how is this done?
Not in a manner like you describe above. But you can instantly switch between layers (even during playback without interruption) by pressing the number keys (1-8) at the top of your keyboard. This should solve many situations. For more elaborate composition I use to spread takes on tracks next to each other and then start to edit. I think what you've been asking for is something Bob is looking into for a future update.



Once overlapping, do the regions crossfade automatically, and if not, how is crossfading performed?
Regions cannot overlap per se in SAWStudio. They always stay butt spliced. There is a concept called "SoftEdge" that blends audio between regions in a crossfade style. Simply place the cursor a little left to two region boundaries, hit X and you've got it. Well, this is the quick start that works for 70% of edits already. You can finetune SoftEdges in many ways. I recommend to look up the topic in the help file or to follow this tutorial: http://www.sawstudio.com/Tutorials/SAWStudio/UsingTheMultiTrack/UsingSoftEdgeForSmoothTransitions.html



How do you cut regions?
Place the cursor where you want to cut and hit K. There's many ways of specialiced edit commands that remove parts of the audio to the left and right with or without affecting consecutive regions. Actually editing audio is one of the strongest and fastest features of SAWStudio, IMHO.
http://www.sawstudio.com/Tutorials/SAWStudio/UsingTheMultiTrack/BasicEditingTechniques.html



Some of these questions may seem basic, but I think they are natural for someone used to working with pop-up tool boxes that let you select siccors, mute tools etc...
You are most welcome to ask these questions and we are glad to help you with your first steps without pop-up tool boxes :-)



When using a time compression plugin insert, how do you apply the compression to the actual waveform (so that the waveform actaully changes), and it there a way of making a waveform stretch to fit a specific area (by using markers?)?
A good way to "freeze" a time compression operation and to free up CPU power is to mixdown to a new soundfile. The fastest way is to highlight the area you want to mixdown in the MultiTrack with the B(egin) and E(nd) keys (this can be done across several regions or not), then click on the tracknumber to make it turn dark thus selecting only this particular track as the source for your mixdown (actually you could select more than one track if you have more complex edits). Then you highlight an empty track by clicking on it, that way you make it the destination of the mixdown. Finally select "Build Mix To Current Hot Track" from the "Process/Mixdown" menu. You then can enter a filename and also file specifics like samplerate or bit resolution but most likely you will go with the defaults and simply hit Enter. A new region is created and inserted into the MultiTrack that you can use to replace your original audio. I recommend to leave the original on a seperate layer.



Is the vsti BFD compatible with SAW?
I can't personally comment on that but I think I read positive user comments in this forum.



Witht the good will method of paying, what is the deal with program updates? Do you have to start paying again everytime there is an update?
I'm sure Bob or Jeanne will give you a good deal. Many (in terms of more than ten) of the program updates have been for free within the last year. And they keep coming quite frequently - especially if you compare to other manufacturers.


I hope I could point you to some answers that get you going.

Best regards,

Veit

[Bob L]

You will want to read the helpfile for each window view... (read from front to back)... if you do this... within 1 hour you will have most of the basic questions about navigation and editing handled... do yourself the favor of reading the details rather than spending tens of hours being confused. :)

The Softedge technology is my answer to simple crossfades... this method works slightly different than many other DAWS which actually pre-process crossfades... in SAWStudio the softedge happens live on the fly and is easily adjustable after the fact without undos or deleting previous softedges. The other factor about the softedge design rather than a region overlap is that you can line up a perfect splice first, then the siftedge blur extends to both sides from that splice... much more musical and direct way of editing than trying to guess how far to overlap and still come out with a detailed splice musically in sync.

You also should realize, that the videos are not training videos really, but more on the lines of sales videos... they are designed to show the program speed in realtime usage... they are not designed to teach keystrokes... although many have learned about certain commands and features by watching them. Pay attention to the way the program looks when I operate it and try to get your system looking similar.

Again, questions like zooming are answered in the helpfile under the navigation and editing sections of the differenet window views... each is handled separately. You can zoom with th eonscreen buttons... left or right click... using the scroll wheel... using the plus/minus keys... or using the NumPad for direct zoom preset... the scroll wheel being one of my favorite tools.

Hang in there... take your time... there is much to explore... you will not figure it all out in a few days... the console routing powers alone are worth a week of exploration... then spend some time with the eq... learn its sound and powers... and so forth on to each section of the interface.

Above all... have some fun with it... :)

Bob L

[celebritymusic]

Hi

Only 10 hours till the tutorials download!!!!!!

I had a look at Anwida's website. Why do they have separate versions of their plugs for SAW - are they optimized for SAW (stupid question), but why not just use the typical VST versions?

Thanks!

Shaun

[Craig Allen]

They're native SAW versions. SAW can use three types of effects - Direct X, VST, and native plugs. Native plug ins are usually more effecient, and have more functionality - especially in the automation department.

[SoundSuite]

BFD works fine in SAW as do most VSTi plugins :c)

Here's a quickie primer on how to get VSTi's working in SAW.
http://www.sawstudiouser.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1635
It's not tough, just different :c)
I'll highly recommend downloading the MidiWorkShop and using it in SAW for VSTi's and 'anything' MIDI.

Not only is SAW rock-solid in audio, but the MIDI is there, as is Video.
The only thing more solid and bulletproof than SAW is the support you WILL recieve as a registered user.

It's not hype, your questions do not go to an ignored or shuffled around email address, or submitted thru a form never to hear a reply other than your email has been recieved and is in que for assistance.
Real interaction with the code monster himself is worth every penny.

I've said it before, and I'll say it any time I can...
RML's support makes me feel, as a user, that SAW is custom made for 'me'.

[Mark Stebbeds]

Hi Guys

downloading the vids now (half speed dialup, so will take a couple of days).



Fix this first. :rolleyes:

Mark

[celebritymusic]

Hi Everyone

Had a good play with SAW today, and I really like they feel of it (even though it's still a mindf#*&! getting around it when I don't know much yet!!!

One question - I imported a soundfile from a Cubase project to have a play with the effects routing. When you 'open soundfile and add to MT', does SAW make a copy of the file and put it in a new directory (for that particuicular SAW project), or does it leave it in the dir that it came from? I just don't want to stuff up any of my audio in the Cubase dir.

Oh, and also, how do I eq the aux returns?

OK, one more! When I'm doing a 'build mix to hot track', to emulate a track freeze in Cubase, does the overall output level affect the level of the mix in the newly created track?

Thanks!

Shaun

[Bob L]

SAWStudio links files in their original location... SAW never touches the original in a destructive way... everything is non-destructive... so as you work and cut and eq and process... its all realtime... the original file is left intact.

You may want to make a copy of the file first, so you can work as I demonstrate in the videos... with the project and all associated files in its own folder.

You can actually import files or marked file sections using the Library view if you want to create new file copies and sections within the new project.

The program also comes with the eq plugin, which is the same hi quality algorithm as the built-in eqs on the channel strips... this plugin is for use in any patch point... including the returns and output tracks.

The build mix uses everything in the chain... this gives you maximum power to process and blend and create stems or the final mix with all processing intact.

You may find that you won't need to freeze tracks like you are used to very much in SAWStudio... the assembly language and integer math engine offers much more performance on the same machine than most any other type of system.

You should have no trouble mixing and processing 30 to 50 or more tracks live with no need to build stems.

Its a whole different ballgame... you're not in Kansas Anymore. :)

Bob L

[celebritymusic]

Hi Bob and helpers!



Just working my way through the tutorials now. They're helpful in the sense that they tell you what the program is capable of, but they don't really direct you how to initiate the capabilities. At the beginning, the voiceover mentions there are more in depth tutorials for this - where would I find them?

Quick question - I noticed that the cursor stops following playback in the MT after you zoom in a certain amount. Is there a way to overcome this?

THANKS!

Shaun

[celebritymusic]

OK - I think I answered my own question with regard to the more in depth tutorials - they come after the Overviw tutorial - DUH!!!

Still need some help with the cursor question though.



TA!

Shaun

[Bob L]

Shaun,

Zooming in so close (past the peak data file usage) stops the cursor by design...

First, the cursor would be slammin across the screen so fast that it would cause the screen to do nothing but constantly flash and redraw as it tries to keep up... this would waste incredible amounts of CPU time and also be useless as far as giving you any valuable information... redrawing a large MT at hi res of 30 tracks of wave display is quite an intense operation... especially with softedges and automation displayed... the cursor freezes at this point because my thinking is that if you are zoomed that close, you are probably trying to find an exact start point for doing an edit or marking something... so when you hit play to listen, the program intelligently does not start wildy scrolling the screen causing you to loose your place... it stays put... now you can press play... listen, and make an adjustment and try again and again till you get it where you want it... and all the while you are not jumping all over the place trying to stop and get back where you started.

Bob L

[SoundSuite]

*snip* SAW never touches the original in a destructive way... everything is non-destructive... *edit*


exception...
adjusting samples in the soundfile view
:D

[celebritymusic]

You're smarter than the average bear, Bob L.



It's 2.49am - I'm going to bed. You all enjoy the rest of your evening in the US of A.



Shaun

[Bob L]

Jon.... I stand corrected. :)

Let's say then that most everything you do in the SAWStudio MT and mixing environment is non-destructive to the original soundfiles... unless its not. :D

Bob L

[celebritymusic]

Morning Everyone!

Quick couple of questions to start the day:

When scroling in the MT, does left dragging scroll all the time, or only if a region is selected? I ask, because I can't seem to get the screen to scroll by left clicking anywhere in the MT, and then dragging the pointer towards any edge of the MT.



Also, I can't get the MT display to center around the cursor when clicking in the timeline.



Thanks!



Shaun

[Bob L]

Shaun,

The easiest way to center the cursor is to place it and then zoom in a level or two... or zoom out... or pres the '=' key to equalize the screen position around the cursor.

The scroll works if you push to either side of the MT... just don't push too fast... simply slide your cursor near to either the left or right edge and slightly push... the screen will scroll... provided there is somewhere to scroll... in other words if you are zoomed out and your left edge is displaying the zero position... it will not scroll left... zoom in a few notches.

You can also scroll by right-holding the mouse in the center of the MT... then push left or right while holding the button... it will float the screen and scroll. You can also push up/dn instead of left/right to float the screen and scroll up and down.

Many different options... they are in the help file in the navigation section for the MT. :)

Bob L

[celebritymusic]

Hi Everyone!

Just a quick question about scrolling in the MT. How do I do this using the left mouse button? When I click and drag towards the edges, the display doesn't move. Does this function only work if you are dragging a region?

Thanks!

Shaun

[Bob L]

Shaun, did you read my last message here?

Am I mis-understanding what you asked?

Bob L

[celebritymusic]

Hi Bob

I'm working through the input/output routing on the console, and have a few questions that I'd appreciate some help with.

For the record, I'm using a LynxOne stereo soundcard.

When setting the input source on a mixer input channel, I notice that my only choice is both LynxOne inputs at once, not individual L and R. What do I change so than I can have exclusive Lynxone channels going to an input module?

I'm still getting my head around the best way to work with the inputs. Here's the scenario that I have set up, but is this the best way to do it? ...

I like to hear insert effects (UAD-1 compressors, Guitar Amp Sim Plugs etc) while I'm tracking. When working in my other DAW, the track would be recorded clean, I would just hear the effect of the insert plugs. So to record in a similar fashion on TK 1 of the MT in SAW (assuming I have a Compressor Plug inserted on Input 01), I:

a) set the input source of input channel 1 to DEv 01 (LynxOne input)

b) hit the record button on TK 1 in the MT

c) select Channel 1 as the Input Source on the pop up Record Meter

d) hit 'REC RDY' to monitor the input source, and record the take.

OK, this setup worked, apart from the fact that the inserted compressor recorded onto the file as (which is what would happen in real life anyway).

QUESTIONS:

1. To hear playback of the take, I had to change the Input Source of my Input Channel back to Multitrack. This isn't such a pain with one track, but what say I was recording a multi-miked drum kit - switching all the inputs back to multitrack would be a real pain. Obviously, I am going about this the wrong way. Can you please guide me through a better way of setting this up so that I can play the take back instantly without having to reassign anything? I'm just used to having SX automatically record and play back on the same mixer channel. And that brings up another question: if I use insert fx while recording, these get recorded to the track, which means if I use the same channel to play back that track (after assigning the input back to Multitrack), I'm gonna hear the insert plugins working over the top of what was already recorded (doubled). Please help me organise a better working environment!!!!!!

2. When working this way in my old DAW, I could work with an out buffer of up to 256 samples before I would hear any delay in the signal (under low loads only, since my machine is only 2.4ghz at the mo). However, even though I have both the input and output buffers and buffer sizes set to their minimum in SAW, I can still hear a slight delay from playing the signal to actually hearing it (even with no insert plugs patched). Ideally I want no perceivable latency, which I know I can acheive because I have in other projects on my machine. Can I change something to acheive this in SAW?

3. Is there anyway of monitoring the insert effects without actually recording them with the take? This would be useful, say, for recording an electric guitar while monitoring an amp sim plugin, but having the guitar be recorded clean so that I have the option of changing presets in the amp sim later.

Thanks Bob - I know you're a busy guy!

Shaun

[celebritymusic]

With regard to the other previous question, you were on the ball.

I sent it through twice because my computer didn't appear to send the original through.

Sorry!!
Shaun

[Bob L]

There are routing options in the Mixer Menu that allow you to re-route the Pre-Patch point in front of the Eq and Dyn... the Pre Patch point is where the record signal is taken from when you use the live input monitoring method.. so move it to the top of the module... and then you will record dry while you eq and use dynamics and reverb and solos and mutes... no effect on the record signal.

To work this way, your system must be capable of low latency drivers... you would need to be able to get your settings down to 3 x 128 or less... the RME cards can do this with MME or ASIO models... most other soundcards will have to use the ASIO to do this.

To get a mono signal on an input, use the mono button at the top of the channel strip... if you click to the left of the button... you will get a popup of options for that channel.

You may also want to try recording direct from the device as a source in the record meter, then you will monitor direct thru the Lynx card mixer or an external mixer/mic pre to headphones.. then there is no latency at all.

If you are routing thru the input channels in the virtual console, when you want a quick playback, start playback while pressing the shift key... it will temporarily switch all channels back to MT...

You also have the option of moving the input source channels down to the end of the console... then as you record at the start of the tracks, you have no interference with the channels that remain as input sources.

Bob L

[celebritymusic]

Hi Bob


I got everything except the last part about moving the source channels down the end of the console. Does this mean that I would reserve some of the end input channels as the 'input source channels', and keep the channels at the beginning of the console as MT playback channels?

If so, and I wanted to monitor an insert plugin while recording, that would mean I would have to have 2 copies of the plug running - one on the input channel, the other on the MT channel.

Also, I would use up twice as many channels.

Did I get right what you're saying? Can you please elaborate?

Ta

Shaun

[Bob L]

Yes... you would reserve channels at the end as input sources... then you would arm tracks at the front of the MT and point to these other input source channels.

This keeps the input monitor and plugs and everything on the end of the console, separate from the recorded tracks. If you are recording flat, then yes, any processing you want to add to the playback and mix would happen on the MT tracks at the front... but this would possibly be desirable, because you could easily tweak recordings as soon as you playback, without affecting the source settings at the end of the console for the next pass.

Either way... if you record flat and monitor from the same channel, then simply use the Shift-Playback to auto switch the channels... kind of like a Tape/Source switch on a typical console. But be careful with this concept, because if you are recording with Fx, then the playback will be double applying the same Fx...

The new coming 4.0 version is looking at true complete record Tape Style monitoring and playback... but that is still not ready for primetime.

Let go of preconceived ideas of how it should be and continue to explore all the options... especially learn about the record templates and the way the record meters can be saved in preset window views... very powerful recording features that, in the end, makes SAWStudio an ultimate way to record, even if its slightly different than what you know or expect. Also, learn about Layers for multi-takes... and also explore the new Loop Recording options... these are quite powerful.

Keep playing... sounds like you are getting in there deep... that's good, hopefully it will start to flow for you soon and we'll all be welcoming you as the newest member of the family. :)

Bob L

[Mitch]

The new coming 4.0 version is looking at true complete record Tape Style monitoring and playback... but that is still not ready for primetime.


Bob L

Oh yeah... now you're talking ! Any ETA on 4.0 yet Bob ?

SAW is great as it is, but if the new input monitoring is what I expect it will be, so much the greater !

[mako]

The new coming 4.0 version is looking at true complete record Tape Style monitoring and playback... but that is still not ready for primetime.

Bob L

Fantastic - thanks Bob

mako

[celebritymusic]

OK - Two big breakthoughs for me tonight!!!

1. I discovered the Audio Driver Model on the Options menu. The last few days that I have been playing with the SAW demo, this has been set on 'Standard Multimedia'. This whole time I have been secretly dissapointed with SAW, because the lowest buffer settings still gave me a 15-20 ms delay. Then I set it to ASIO Protocol, and find my old familiar LynxOne buffer setup window in the Asio Driver Setup. I change it to it's lowest setting and now there's NO PERCEIVABLE LATENCY!!!!! I'm a very happy man.

2. I finally got my head around recording a dry track while monitoring insert effects on it (amp sim and compressor). Can someone please double check my method?

Set up input channel 1 source to soundcard input. Insert required effects in POST FADER insert. Hit record on MT track 1. Set REC METER to input channel 1. Hit record. Just a dry signal should be recorded, but will be played back through channel 1 insert effects when I sitch input source back to MT, or hold shift while hitting play (shift while hitting space initiates SRP recording if rec meter window is still open - is there another way of playing back the MT track with the spacebar while the record meter is open?). To record the track complete with insert effects, use the PRE FADER insert point instead of POST. IS THIS THE CORRECT WAY OF RECORDING LIKE THIS?

If someone has a better way of doing this, please let me know!!!

THANKS!

Shaun
(still on a high about the non-latency issue!!)

[Bob L]

I mentioned also the routing controls for the Pre Patch point in the Mixer menu... that would allow you to move the pre patch in front of the eq and dyn... then you could record dry and still use the built-in eq and dyn section... this way you don't have to patch plugins in the pst... of course you still can.

Its very easy to setup a recording template already adjusted with reverb aux returns pre-patched and so forth... all you do then is open the template, use the Ctrl key to arm al tracks at once (to the record template... already pre-assigned) and press record. Lots of built in features like this that start to shave hours off of your audio tasks as you get your system setup to your needs and styles of working.

Playing back the MT while the meters are open requires the play button or mouse, since the keyboard functions are locked to the record functions at that time.

Bob L

[celebritymusic]

Hi Again ALL!!

Just a question re: the Midi Workshop. Is it possble to graphically align the midi tracxks with the audio tracks in the MT? I'm used to being able to drag a midi drum track up next to an audio track to aid in fixing audio that is too far off the beat.

THANKS!

Shaun

[Bob L]

The two MultiTracks are in their own windows but are completely cursor locked... this offers much more power than what you describe... in my opinion... because generaly midi data needs to expanded to quite a different zoom level than audio data for clarity... SAWStudio's design allows the two to remain at different zoom levels and still be completely locked...

So, you can press an F-Key and look at a giant audio track and zoom in and place the cursor to any exact spot... press another F-Key and instantly be looking at a large Midi Track display... the cursor will be in the exact sample position... simply select the midi note and snap it with a keystroke to the new locked position... of course you can setup your screens to see both audio and Midi side by side and slide notes while referncing either audio or midi...

It is just laid out differently than the others... and in my opinion, offers much more versatility and power.

Bob L

[celebritymusic]

Hi Bob



With regard to your earlier post about Record Templates, can you please elaborate?

I thought the templates just took a snapshot of how the Record Meters are set up (input assignments). Are you saying that the Record Templates also take note of settings in the console? What settings can these Record Templates remember?

THANKS!

[Bob L]

The record meter templates save only the meter settings and assignments... but you have full blown mix templates which can contain record templates and you also, of course, can simply save an empty, but completely setup edl session, which contains everything.

Keep these edls as templates of their own... open one, then immediately save it as a new session edl... then start your project.

Bob L

[celebritymusic]

Hi Bob

Just wondering if there is any way to insert a tempo position in between beats?

Some of my unfinished projects from SX have tempo changes at funny positions, so if I was to import them into SAW, I would need to be able to replicate their tempo maps.

Thanks!

Shaun

[Bob L]

Shaun,

Nope, tempo changes must happen at a beat or measue boundary in SAWStudio and the Midi Workshop.... and musically, I'm pretty sure that's closer to reality that not.

Not sure why it would need to be any different.

Can a human really hear that the tempo change happened at beat 2 1/2 compared to beat 3?

Bob L

[celebritymusic]

Hi Bob

I agree - it's just that I have some funny tempo maps in my old projects. If I'm to keep the audio tracks from these projects synced to midi bars in SAW, I would need to follow the old tempo map.

Any workaround for this?

[Bob L]

My guess is they will work ok... the slight difference of doing the tempo change slightly off beat I doubt will cause any noticable sync problems because the tempo will come up to proper setting on the next beat... and if so, a simple slide of a few troubled notes should solve the issue.

Bob L