SS, MIDI Workshop and Kontakt

[Sean McCoy]

Is anybody using Kontakt (or any other VST sampler) as a VSTI within Studio, and are you able to load and use large sample banks concurrently with SS? I need to supplement my Logic/G5 with a PC running Kontakt and have been assuming I'd buy a dedicated machine for this, especially since SS is somewhat of a RAM hog. But if anybody has them playing nicely together, I might consider an all-in-one PC option instead. Thanks for any feedback.

Sean McCoy
Oregon Sound Recording

[MMP]

I have messed with this a little, but I don't render multichannel MIDI sequences...I just play each instrument one track at a time into SAW, so not really high demand.


How do you typically work? Perhaps I could fireup something similar and let you know.

Regards,

MM

[Sean McCoy]

I have messed with this a little, but I don't render multichannel MIDI sequences...How do you typically work? Perhaps I could fireup something similar and let you know.

I've got some of the current crop of mondo sample libraries from VSL, Garritan and others, in addition to some VSTI's like Trilogy and such. The scenario will be lots of large sample banks loaded and playing simultaneously, and ultimately recorded into Studio as individual or combined stereo audio tracks for mixing. I'm using an RME Digiface, MOTU 2408 MKII and have a ZSys 16.16 Lightpipe patchbay and a Mackie D8B, so routing is not a problem.

Kontakt on the PC will be dedicated to a particular class of instruments, like orchestral brass, acoustic pianos, harps, whatever, to be determined, and I'm told Kontakt can access up to 2 GB of memory. What I don't know is how much this might be compromised by running Studio, and will realtime playback of these large disk-streaming sample banks be too taxing on the system for reliable recording into Studio, particularly while it's slaving to MTC. If you have access to any very large sample libraries that you could load into Kontakt and try recording some sequences over multiple tracks into Studio, that might give us some idea of whether this is a practical scenario. Thanks for your help.

[MMP]

I did do a symphonic style composition in Studio with MWS and the East West Symphonic library running on Kontakt. If I get a minute today, I'll load it up and see what the limits are on my system.


That said...my guess is that you might want multiple computers for large projects just for stability.

MM

[Sean McCoy]

Sorry to dredge up this old thread, but did you ever get a chance to test your system's capacity for running Studio while handling large sample loads? Is anybody doing this yet?

[Arco]

I've done this with large string sample libraries--solo 1st violins/2nd violins/violas/celli.

the biggest "problem" is when you do a normal UNDO and have to wait for the whole library to load..you really re-think how you want to deal with errors when you're facing this.

I haven't done anything scientific or precise in terms of testing although I have hit the Kontakt ceiling which is when you get the message from Kontakt saying that memory is in short supply.

What I basically do is work with full orchestral string libraries which take up less memory (a big sample set which covers the whole string section from violin-bass)for writing and then go to individual sample sets for each instrument when I'm ready to record to Audio for mixing. In this case I often load 3 or 4 instruments at a time so I can record the audio in 2-3 passes.

erik

[Sean McCoy]

I've done this with large string sample libraries--solo 1st violins/2nd violins/violas/celli.

the biggest "problem" is when you do a normal UNDO and have to wait for the whole library to load..you really re-think how you want to deal with errors when you're facing this.

I haven't done anything scientific or precise in terms of testing although I have hit the Kontakt ceiling which is when you get the message from Kontakt saying that memory is in short supply.
erik

Thanks for the info, Erik. Since I do my sequencing from Logic Mac, I would only be using MWS as a VSTI place-holder and shouldn't have the undo situation you described---but that's a potential nightmare with upwards of 2 Gig of samples loaded. Sounds like an issue that might need addressing in a future update.

Did Studio respond sluggishly when you approached the memory ceiling? Any estimate as to the maximum sample RAM you were using? And are you using DFD? (I think that's what Kontakt calls it)

[AudioAstronomer]

I actually do work for a company editing AND testing large sample libraries in SS w/o midiworkshop. Works great!

[Sean McCoy]

I actually do work for a company editing AND testing large sample libraries in SS w/o midiworkshop. Works great!

Robert-

I'm assuming that's a typo? You meant "with" MWS, not "w/o" MSW, right? 'Cause if there's a way to load Kontakt into Studio without MWS, I wanna know about it!

[Bob L]

You can load Kontakt or any VSTi synth plug into SAWStudio without the MWS... the plug actually patches into the SAWStudio Console channels.

You must then select a midi port to live trigger the plug from a midi keyboard or external sequencer hardware or software.

Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

Robert-

I'm assuming that's a typo? You meant "with" MWS, not "w/o" MSW, right? 'Cause if there's a way to load Kontakt into Studio without MWS, I wanna know about it!

Like bob said. I dont own MWS yes due to my midi fear (will change in a week or two I think)... I get along fine just playing my favorite synths (rhino 2, www.bigtick-audio.com and WusikStation, www.wusik.com as well as some that I only have out of necassity like kontakt/bfd)... just perform it right to begin with and it works well. It just feels more natural to me that way anyways.

But eh :) I guess people were scared of digital editing for a while and liked the ultra-linearity of tape more... im old-fashioned for these days I guess hah :)

[Sean McCoy]

Too cool! All this time I've been assuming I'd need MWS or V-Stack or something to access these libraries on my PC--I never even tried loading a VSTI into Studio. Time for a little MIDI re-routing and software installation (maybe a new computer, too).

Is it safe to assume that multiple instances of Kontakt can be loaded at once, for access to more than 16 instruments?

[AudioAstronomer]

I wouldnt suggest overloading with kontakt... It has some problems with multiple instances. Polyphony is shared, round-robin is shared and some other things. It also takes up a huge amount of ram just to load an instance. So really you're best off setting up as much as you can into 1 instance of kontakt.

If you want to trick it, there is a way... Shut down saw, copy and past kontakt into the same directory. Renamed the second to kontakt2.dll, now you'll have 2 version sof kontakt that are independant of each other.

Good luck! as a shameless plug, check out www.lastlibs.com for one of the best acoustic bass guitar samples ever made... and soon some amazing drums. (all done in saw by yours truly). Soon they will be converting to saw as well... and Ill be out of business ha :)

[Dave Labrecque]

Robert,

FYI, I get a 'file not found' error when clicking on the '6 Monkeys and 2 Chimps (http://www.robelliottmusic.com/mp3s/Action_Epic/6%20Monkeys%20and%202%20Chimps.mp3)' link to hear the acoustic bass demo.

[AudioAstronomer]

Ive alerted them. Should be fixed hopefully. Their server has already met bandiwidth for the month so there maybe demo download problems. If youd like they can email the demo's to you if you contact them :)

Some big news coming on that front for you sampler guys soon too ;)

[Arco]

Like bob said. I dont own MWS yes due to my midi fear (will change in a week or two I think)... I get along fine just playing my favorite synths (rhino 2, www.bigtick-audio.com and WusikStation, www.wusik.com as well as some that I only have out of necassity like kontakt/bfd)... just perform it right to begin with and it works well. It just feels more natural to me that way anyways.

But eh :) I guess people were scared of digital editing for a while and liked the ultra-linearity of tape more... im old-fashioned for these days I guess hah :)

I find the only way to get a 'natural' sounding performance is to be able to heavily tweak the MIDI information--velocity, changing sample sets (up bow, down bow for instance), expression, volume,quantizing...etc.

[AudioAstronomer]

I understand that. But both the synths I mentioned are very organic and both GS3 and Kontakt offer some automatic options that can make for extremely realistic sounds. For isntance, there is a playable demo of the bass guitar (which i can email to you if you wish) that sounds amazing just played on a keyboard.

Ive been playing hardware synths since I was a wee kiddy (we couldnt afford a piano for me to learn on as a kid so I got a concertmate to practice scales on when I was at home. Probabaly why I hate weighted keys so much), so Im a bit addicted to the straight-foward manner of just playing and tweaking knobs to makes outworldy sounds.

If anyone wants the demos, or a playable demo of the bass guitar, email me at audiolabs@gmail.com and I will make it happen. Alan Lastufka is very busy atm making some big things happen so Ill just take care of it for now :)