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Carlos Mills
07-09-2005, 12:06 PM
At 8:30 AM, I was waked up by my wife… my partner was in the phone… He was calling me for an emergency live recording gig…
After a quick bath and a fast breakfast, I was on my way to the studio to get all the gear, when I learned that we were invited to record the MultiShow award. This is a TV Music award sponsored by Globo, the biggest broadcast company in Brazil. The show would be broadcasted live and it was going to happen in the City Hall Theater (http://www.theatromunicipal.rj.gov.br), in Rio de Janeiro.
When we got there with our SS live rig (workstation + preamps), the staff was very stressed. They were having serious problems with their Mackie HDR 24/96 systems and also with the D8B console for the last couple of days, and that is why we were called about 8 hours before the show. So we would be using our rig not only to record directly from their splitter from the stage, but also to send 48 channels of LIGHTPIPE (TOSLINK) audio channels (via two RME 9652 outputs) to their HDR systems (that is, in case they worked :) ).
But there was something we were not prepared for… They wanted us to follow their SMPTE signal. The first thing we thought, was to make it throw a MTC converter box, but we hadn’t configured the workstation to work this way yet. We tried to use the onboard audio (throw a DB-MIDI adapter) as a MIDI port, but Windows XP would refuse to recognize the on board audio. Suddenly, I remembered the Trigger From SMPTE Sync option that was available since the old SAWPro days! But unfortunately, the option was still greyed out in SS… :( So we decided to just forget about the SMPTE (which made the TV guys a little more stressed) and concentrated in the audio. At this far, we were only a couple of hours away from the begging of the show.
To record everything, we found out that the best way would be to split the channels throw two drives, since we were recording 48 tracks of 24/48kHz files. So we armed all the recording meters, opened the setup in the record panel, assigned 24 tracks for one drive, 24 to the other drive, closed the setup panel, hit the Rec Ready button and happily SAW the peak meters activity… at this point, the audio guys from Globo were starting to relax… ;) After about two hours and a half of show, things went smooth for us… In the end, their Mackie HDR Back up Systems failed (don’t know why) and they kept the audio we had captured to mix in their Pro Tools rig…

Any comments about this "adventure" would be appreciated...

QUESTIONS FOR BOB:

1) I know you are not very excited about the SMPTE sync (me neither). But would you consider to implement the Trigger from SMPTE sync option? Many of the boxes that convert from SMPTE to MTC are not ready to the new 29.97 or 23.97 Non-Drop options… I am about to do a SAW demonstration to the TV guys (a prepared one!) and it would be very appealing to them if I could show such a feature…

2) Would it be possible to have an option to save the recording paths? Specially when assigning to different drives? It would be quicker and safer in a situation where you have 48 channels to assign...


Thanks for listening and take care,

SoundSuite
07-09-2005, 12:40 PM
sounds like you pulled it off well, Carlos...good job!

Naturally Digital
07-09-2005, 01:13 PM
Any comments about this "adventure" would be appreciated...Comments...? All I can say is WOW! Well done Carlos. 48 tracks, 2-1/2 hours... and on two different hard drives... :eek: SAWStudio Never ceases to amaze me! :cool:

mikebuzz
07-09-2005, 02:50 PM
Can you say Market potential ??? , very cool Carlos good show

Later
Buzz
:D

Mark Stebbeds
07-09-2005, 03:09 PM
Any comments about this "adventure" would be appreciated...

QUESTIONS FOR BOB:

1) I know you are not very excited about the SMPTE sync (me neither). But would you consider to implement the Trigger from SMPTE sync option? Many of the boxes that convert from SMPTE to MTC are not ready to the new 29.97 or 23.97 Non-Drop options… I am about to do a SAW demonstration to the TV guys (a prepared one!) and it would be very appealing to them if I could show such a feature…

2) Would it be possible to have an option to save the recording paths? Specially when assigning to different drives? It would be quicker and safer in a situation where you have 48 channels to assign...




Hi Carlos,

Good job pulling off the audio recording under pressure in an adverse situation.

It's important to remember that there are two issues when considering syncronization with another device, "positional reference", or address (SMPTE, etc.) and "clock reference" to know what speed to run at to stay in sync over a period of time. It is important to record the audio when resolved/clocked to the same sync referrence as the video recorders.

"Trigger from SMPTE", and then running free, is not the solution, unless it is a very short program, usually less than three minutes.

Having your rig resolve to "house sync", will keep you in sync once your rig is
"triggered" from SMPTE, or SMPTE to MTC converter. I am surprised that this ext. sync source was not offered to you. Perhaps the TV crew assumed you could derive sync reference from the SMPTE they were generating, which is also possible.

With the advent of digital video, HD etc., I am not at full speed with the syncing technologies, but the concept is the same.

Mark

Dave Labrecque
07-09-2005, 03:47 PM
2) Would it be possible to have an option to save the recording paths? Specially when assigning to different drives? It would be quicker and safer in a situation where you have 48 channels to assign...

Carlos,

Nice work!

Check out the record templates (which I think save with the mix templates): I think they store the record path(s).

Hey, wait. How did you get some of the inputs to go to one drive and other inputs to the other drive? To me it looks like the setup button/dialog applies to all open record meters/inputs.

Carlos Mills
07-09-2005, 05:18 PM
Hi Mark,


It's important to remember that there are two issues when considering syncronization with another device, "positional reference", or address (SMPTE, etc.) and "clock reference" to know what speed to run at to stay in sync over a period of time. It is important to record the audio when resolved/clocked to the same sync referrence as the video recorders.
"Trigger from SMPTE", and then running free, is not the solution, unless it is a very short program, usually less than three minutes.

Thanks for your comments. So I guess we actually need to ask Bob to implement both the Trigger from SMPTE Sync and Chase Trigger from SMPTE Sync options... :)


Having your rig resolve to "house sync", will keep you in sync once your rig is "triggered" from SMPTE, or SMPTE to MTC converter. I am surprised that this ext. sync source was not offered to you. Perhaps the TV crew assumed you could derive sync reference from the SMPTE they were generating, which is also possible.

They did have a SMPTE to MTC converter box (they bought it), but they were having a hard time to make it work... Maybe the fact that they were using 29.97 Drop format made things hard to the box... I don't know, I was too busy trying to make Windows XP recognize the MoBo's on board Audio, so I could use it as the MIDI control device in (with a DB-MIDI adapter).

Thanks for your input and best regards,

Carlos Mills
07-09-2005, 05:28 PM
Hi Dave,


Carlos,
Nice work!
Check out the record templates (which I think save with the mix templates): I think they store the record path(s).

I tried it and they only save the Input Assignments... not the record path. The record paths are set in the setup menu (in the record panel)... In other words, if you assign everything and keep the meters open, everything will work ok and you will record the files in two separed drives. But if you [Ctrl] + Close the meters, and then [Ctrl] + open them, they will keep the input assignments ok, but will direct all the files to only one drive, not to both drives.


Hey, wait. How did you get some of the inputs to go to one drive and other
inputs to the other drive? To me it looks like the setup button/dialog applies to all open record meters/inputs

If you use the Base window (in Record Panel/setup), all assignments will go to the same drive. But each meter is individually assignable there.

Thanks for your input and best regards,

Dave Labrecque
07-09-2005, 06:36 PM
Carlos,

Too bad. I really thought they'd save with the record template. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Thanks for reminding me about the individual 'meter path/names'. Shows you how much time I spend playing with those features. :)

mako
07-09-2005, 07:06 PM
Great stuff Carlos :)

cheers

mako

Carl G.
07-09-2005, 07:21 PM
Carlos,
What a place!
Impressive site...
I'll have to wait till my son gets back from Peru to understand it...
but the virtual tour is impressive!
Good luck tonight!

Tree Leopard
07-09-2005, 09:02 PM
Carlos,

Congratulations! :) I could imagine that it would have been crazy. Rio is crazy. Rio + technicians from Rede Globo + the staff at the Teatro Municipal = super-louco! :D Looks like you handled the situation extremely well - great to see SAW in action like this.

Tude de bom!

Andre

PS: ... and for the guys here ...

[press "1" for more information]

The Multishow Awards (Prêmio Multishow de Música Brasileira) is one the most important music events in Brazil - well, certainly in terms of publicity and exposure, at least.

Multishow itself is a channel on cable TV - a kind of alternative to the hip MTV Brasil but for people with slightly longer attention spans. It showcases a range of local & international artists from the biggest selling commercial successes through to alternative rock and regional music, covering a variety of musical genres.

[press "9" to return to the main menu]

Bob L
07-10-2005, 08:06 AM
Good job Carlos...

The record setup paths are not currently saved with the template... I will have to check into that... at the moment, it is still trying to keep the session neatly tucked away in one folder... for many reasons of complications down the road.

Mark is correct about the other clocking issues if you were chasing smpte... if you have a choice in those sitiuations, see if they will let you generate the smpte sugnal... then you will still be ok with your master clock, although, then they will want your clock... or you should all be on a house sync clock together anyway.

It gets more complex... but I have done 2 hour live shows with no real video sync issues... as long as the audio is resolved as analog transfers... not direct digital transfers...

I will see wht I can do with the sync options....

If I put in the smpte chase and trigger, it will not solve these kinds of issues anyway... although I am definitely tired of being asked about it. :)

Bob L

Carlos Mills
07-10-2005, 01:24 PM
Hi Bob,

Thanks for looking into this... :)

Pedro Itriago
07-10-2005, 01:56 PM
Congrats Carlos, seems like a very good experience. Those moments are worth every penny, huh?