Future Control Surfaces

[swing]

Bob!

I wonder if you are considering this http://www.tascam.com/product_info.php?pid=342&nav=computer_hardware

My muse hand/arm really takes some beating sometimes - you know, it gets cold and stiff:) - now that's not life as I know it:)

That's why I'm looking into something else for making my moves and this one seems just down my line.

Is that on your future list?

swing

[Bob L]

Controllers again huh... there may be a template for the Tascam in the future... but I have said it before and will say it again.... why.... once you get into the swing of SAWStudio, you will probably find that no controller will really add any benefit to your workflow... other than psychologically. :)

I'd suggest you give it some time and soon you will possibly find yourself laughing at the question about any controller surface in SAWStudio.

Things are different in Studio, if you go with the flow... mixing no longer needs to be hands-on faders and controls... it becomes a much more fine tuned process... and much faster with the use of off-line automation in the MultiTrack.

The idea of doing the largest sessions you have ever done in a laptop, with no external gear... and with finished results faster and more fine tuned than anything you've ever done on the largest consoles in the industry... that's exciting to me.

But, that's my opinion...

Bob L

[swing]

Hey man! You're fast:)

That thought is also lurking back in my mind. It's an investment that may be obsolete in the long run. Maybe a stretch exercise video should to the trick for me and my arm:)

thx again bob - i'll try to grasp your app some more to evaluate the workflow.

swing

how many mouseclicks will get you to nirvana?

[Dave Labrecque]

Controllers again huh... Bob, I'm trying to be open to your view on this. (Heck, it could save me a lot of money! :)) Maybe you can help me by explaining in particular how you mix in situations where the interaction between the engineer and real-time playback that you get with "riding gain" seems to work best (at least historically)? Examples: music bed under a voice-over, or dynamic vocal track over an instrumental track.

My experience with off-line type editing of the fader envelope for these scenarios has been less-than-satisfying. And slow. Lots of trial and error.:mad:

Thanks.

[AudioAstronomer]

You cant ride a fader with a mouse Dave? It takes practice just like any good engineering skill... I know not everyone wants to relearn, but it works.

Sometimes there's a big tradeoff between simplicity (a physical fader) and extreme power (SAW's automation)...

You could always just buy a simple small control surface like the new behringer's, they support GM Im fairly sure for less than the cost of a good, big meal in new york ;)

Personally I love editing stuff... Ive become very acustomed to editing things visually with great results, but it can be hard after you've trained yourself to do these things by ear which I do anyways with FX'd guitar parts... cant bloody editing them visually because it's normally a mess of nothing, blech.

[Bob L]

Dave,

You can get an idea of how I assemble a mix without ever riding gain anymore in the Band video demos on the website.

It becomes very easy, at least for me, to get a starting point for the mix, and then as I listen and start tweaking the mix along the timeline, it usually only takes a few trims in automation to get the final results for each instrument.

The Guitar needs to go up here for this turn-around fill... so a simple mark of the fill and step the fader up a few db... I can usually guess pretty accurately... done...

Next the vocal needs to sit back in the mix here in the chorus, because the vocalist is belting a lot louder than the verse... so... jump to the start of the chorus phrase and drop the fader a few db... then jump to the end of the chorus and set it back for the next verse... etc..

Ok, now everything is good, but the whole guitar track is too loud... so simply go to Offset mode and drop the guitar 1.75 db... done... all the guitar tweaks I made are still intact, but now 1.75 db down... do that with a fader. :)

Its actually so smooth and fast, that I personally probaly could not do a hands-on mix of a 4 min song anymore using physical faders... and that used to be one of my forte's... choreographing and memorizing complex multitrack mixes and executing them in one pass without too many mistakes.

The idea of trying to balance everything at once, with my hands jumping all over a controller or console, is absolutely absurd to me now-a-days. :)

My mixes come together so smoothly now... and then once the client takes the mix home, and calls me back later with a comment about this one sax line that needs to come up at a certain phrase... easy... open the session, adjust the sax, and the whole rest of the detailed mix stays exactly the same, right down to the reverb trails... I'm sorry, but this is so far advanced compared to the old way of mixing, that it's laughable.

Again, at least in my opinion. :D

Bob L

[Dave Labrecque]

Hi Bob,

Don't get me wrong. 95% of SAW gives me everything I need -- and then some. All kinds of things that weren't possible a few years ago. I'm just talking about a few areas where I'm still more efficient using a physical fader to ride gain.

I was mixing down a live kids song/dance show that required continuous gain riding for about 90 minutes: kids moving around the stage around the different mics, kids singing really loud, then being pretty tentative. Not sure how I could've salvaged that show without real-time gain riding with several tracks' faders in front of me for the grabbin'. The beauty of SAW, of course, is that I can make several passes as needed till I get the ride right. And even offset compex ride sequences a few dB if I need to.

Sounds like the material you mix is pretty controlled dynamically. Maybe I just need to work with higher-caliber talent. :)

[Dave Labrecque]

You cant ride a fader with a mouse Dave? It takes practice just like any good engineering skill... I know not everyone wants to relearn, but it works.
AA,

I must admit that I haven't tried it a whole lot since SAW Pro. In those days it was not intended to be a gain-riding environment. And from what Bob says, SS perhaps still isn't meant to be used that way. But I suppose I could try it out. I have a feeling though that it's going to be tough to convince me that moving a mouse is as secure-feeling as moving a physical fader.

I do have a controller currently, at least for faders and pans (Panasonic WR-DA7), I was just trying to figure out how Bob gets around the need. Trying to broaden my horizons. :)

[AudioAstronomer]

AA,

I must admit that I haven't tried it a whole lot since SAW Pro. In those days it was not intended to be a gain-riding environment. And from what Bob says, SS perhaps still isn't meant to be used that way. But I suppose I could try it out. I have a feeling though that it's going to be tough to convince me that moving a mouse is as secure-feeling as moving a physical fader.

I do have a controller currently, at least for faders and pans (Panasonic WR-DA7), I was just trying to figure out how Bob gets around the need. Trying to broaden my horizons. :)

Eh, I just put one finger on the left mouse button and move the mouse with that finger :) It's close enough for me ;)

[canipus]

How many of you are using an INFRARED Logitech mouse with SAW instead of the old ball mouse??
If you still hanging on to your mouses balls you might want to try an infrared mouse - you're in for a treat. Moving the faders with the mouse on a decent pad makes them glide. It's the closest thing I have found to a Penny and Giles simulation.

[swing]

hehehe

Sometimes you are so preoccupied with stuff that you go blind and deaf.

Man! That may be the solution bro!

I'm on it - stealing my sons infrared:)

swing

[MMP]

Marble Mouse trackball guy here.


Absolutely great when scrolling the multitrack view, and quite easy with the faders, too.

MM

[swing]

I get it - I get it - I get it:)

SAWStudio does not make my hand/arm cold and stiff - extensive midi editing in Sonar does!

I'm getting the great workflow ease now and my right arm feels free and loose.

Sorry to have bothered you with an unnecessary thread Bob.

swing

[Bob L]

Hang with it and hopefully more and more of the differences will start to appeal to you... and then perhaps you will be grateful that SAWStudio does not try to copy the way "it's always been done". :)

Hope to see you joining the family soon. It would be nice to see your member status change to "SAWStudio User". :D

Bob L

[swing]

Heheheh!

Funny - I don't smell a salesman behind you invitations - really I don't :D

Our wishes are mutual - since I considered Waves Diamond pak for A LOT of money - the stream of incoming wealth is about to change direction :rolleyes:

But I'm eager - so maybe I go the basic 300$ route. We'll see and so soon too I hope.

swing

[matt]

This conversation sparks an idea. How about creating an option where the wheel on the mouse can control the fader (or pan or threshold) when the crosshairs are over the specific graphic?

[AudioAstronomer]

This conversation sparks an idea. How about creating an option where the wheel on the mouse can control the fader (or pan or threshold) when the crosshairs are over the specific graphic?

http://www.sawstudiouser.net/forums/showthread.php?t=249

[Yura]

hoho, Jon M. S. has done it in his Hi Res EQ. (but the settings of weel's speed under Windows hasn't affect inside EQ).

[Naturally Digital]

Controllers again huh... there may be a template for the Tascam in the future...
Bob L

I'm currently happy without a controller but...

What about charging for controller templates...

Would the people who want them, be willing to pay enough money to justify the work involved?

Just a thought...
Dave.

[Dave Labrecque]

I'd pay.

[Bob L]

It is about finding the time to research the controller protocol, get the controller to test, and then writing the code and possible new function hooks needed for each of the different controller protocols, and then debugging the termplate... all while I find the time to continue evolving SAWStudio, The Midi WorkShop, all the plug-ins, and the Video WorkShop, and in my spare time continuing with the sessions and clients I am doing engineering work for, while also managing to build the laptop rigs and train the engineers buying those rigs in the art of mastering the SAWStudio environment... oh, and there's handling the tech support emails and this forum interaction... hmmm what did I forget... :)

Oh yeah... then there's a thing called family. :D

Bob L

[Carlos Mills]

Oh yeah... then there's a thing called family. :D

Bob L

Hi Bob,

Can you write some code for this? :p

Something like a family control surface would be great!