Samples, Loops - stretch/shrink

[Mitch]

Hey guys, what program and / or process do you use if you need to shorten or lengthen loops ?

I'm trying to use some horn section samples in a tune. They are in the right key but recorded at, say 100 bpm. I need them to be at 111bpm

Am I going to need ACID or ? to import these wavs, stretch them, save as (new bpm), import back into SAW ? -- Better way ?

Thanks!

[Bert]

You have probably heard about Melodyne before - good quality (some trouble with low voices for me though). I also like the prosoniq Mpex algorythm (comes as a stand alone app if I recall correctly and with Cubase and Sonar). Acid or Live will do the job but they do it in realtime which might result in poorer quality then the aforementioned.

Before you go ahead and spend money on new software (btw: there is a free version of acid Xpress at http://www.acidplanet.com/ which might do this, too) check out Audacity. It's a freeware wave editor and comes with its own timestretching algorythm that is't bad at all, given that it's free.

[trock]

hey mitchii am using Drums on Demand now with acid for this, however this was posted to me in that forum so this may help you??

Place the wave file in the MT channel, with the cursor placed in the wave file, <alt>right click and a menu will appear, about half way down is the varispeed selection. Click on this and a box appears where you type in a percentage. The wave file will then have a small white marker at the start to let you know it has been altered.

If you want to reduce the BPM, type in a figure under 100% or increase it, type in a figure over 100%. You can do some simple math to help. For example, I want to change a 120BPM wave file to 115BPM. 115/120 = 0.9583 so type in 95.83 and you have 115BPM.

If you have a lot of small wave loops to change, simply highlight them all using the select function and the percentage change will apply to all of them.

I also use the varispeed function to help me lock wave loops to the start of each bar. Some loops when added to SAW slightly exceed the tempo map by mere milliseconds. I use the varispeed to reduce their length by the slightest of margins (eg; 100.03%) so they will all start exactly as planned. If you do not do this, you will get a compunded error where the start of the bar moves further back in time over the course of 100 or 200 hundred bars. You could play to this drum track but it wont be in time to the tempo map.

[antiClick]

may be i misunderstood, but....

isnt' better to use a vst sampler that does time-sketching directly?

evreythng more centralized



cheers

[Westwind]

Mitch,
I've been using ACID for this job for many years. It's designed to shift/stretch in real time, but I often use it to simply export the loop using the 'Render As' Command in the file menu. I simply export the adjusted loop directly into the SAW folder of the project I'm working on. It's very fast, and the effect on the original loop is usually transparent up to 20 bpm (depending on what the loop is) Percussion can go even farther.
Another option is Sound Forge, which contains a Utility called 'Edit Acid Properties' where you simply type in the original tempo, then the desired tempo: Viola!. Obviously, it works for pitch as well. Sound Forge also has its own 'Time Stretch' process which uses percentage or bpm. It also has a choice of 19 algorythms to choose from depending on what your loop is, i.e. 'Solo Instrument', 'Voice' ,'Full Mix', 'Drums' etc. It's pretty precise, and I use it quite a bit. Both these features are available in the LE version of Sound Forge, so it's won't kill your wallet. Also, as mentioned, there are 'lighter' versions of ACID that you can buy and still have what you need.
Coincedently, as I write this, one of my songs, 'Lotus Tears' is playing on SAW Radio. I used some of the loop stretching techniques mentioned on it, with very gratifying results, if I do say so myself. :D
Good Luck

[Bob L]

You can also use the Sonic Foundry (now Sony) DX Pack 1 Time Stretch DX plugin... it works live in SAWStudio as a DX plugin... you can do the stretching on an individual track or on an output track group.

Available still for only $38, I think, from the Sony Media division.

I believe Pieter (Sonoris) is currently working on a Time Compression Native Plugin for SAWStudio... I'm sure we are all waiting to see that... he has done some excellent work on his native plugs so far... this one could be the ultimate. :)

Bob L

[Mitch]

Great ! Thanks guys! - Obviously I dont want the time stretch to affect the pitch, just the tempo.

I have not played with Vari-speed too much, but I believe this WILL alter the pitch, right ? which I DONT want to do.......just the BPM....

So ACID sounds like it may be the way to go ?

I will use Melodyne for single line horn parts that are in the wrong key (sax, trumpet solos etc). Adjust pitch, save as....... into ACID for BPM adjustment, then back into SAW ?

.....was posting this at the same time as you Bob.... Sounds like your solution might be the best yet ! THANKS ! -- $38 .... YEP, I can swing that ! - A native SAW time stretch / compression would just be AWESOME !! ---- WHEN ? WHEN? --- *drools*

[trock]

Mitch

I have ACID 4, i think 5 is out now.

i have used this program for like 3 hours with drums on demand and ACID is EASY and SWEET!

my drum tracks consist of about 15 tracks in ACID that i render as a WAV and then import into SAW.

i can switch BPM on the fly and do all kinds of cool things

ACID works great for me

however the DOD guys also recommend CAKEWALK HOME edition for time stretching since it is 99 bucks vs 250 or so.

[AudioAstronomer]

Melodyne is top. Nothing better in workflow or sound quality. If you want to waste your time... go ahead and use something else ;) hehe

[Ian Alexander]

Mitch,

I think Melodyne will do pitch or time, or both. Their demos play around with key, then tempo, or the other way around.

[PieterS]

I believe Pieter (Sonoris) is currently working on a Time Compression Native Plugin for SAWStudio...
Bob L
That's correct. Release expected after the summer holidays. I'm also working on a linear phase Eq. Will be released soon.

regards,

[Mitch]

I'll play some more with Melodyne, anxiously awaiting Pieter's new product !!!!

[Bob L]

Pieter,

As you get close to something in beta stage, let me know and I will work with you on the API extended hook to have your compression factor passed back thru the API to SAWStudio so the waveform displays can properly display as the plugin settings are adjusted.

Bob L

[bcorkery]

Pieter and Bob,

This one is pretty exciting to me too.

Thanks,
Bill

[Mitch]

...wow, dontcha just love witnessing a plan come together ! -- WAY COOL Bob and Pieter !

[ffarrell]

This SAW Studio thing might catch on after all. :p

fvf


...wow, dontcha just love witnessing a plan come together ! -- WAY COOL Bob and Pieter !

[PieterS]

Pieter,

As you get close to something in beta stage, let me know and I will work with you on the API extended hook to have your compression factor passed back thru the API to SAWStudio so the waveform displays can properly display as the plugin settings are adjusted.

Bob L

Ok Bob, I will do that. It is not beta ready yet, but when it is, I'll contact you.

[Mitch]

I picked up Celemony Melodyne UNO - Perfect for what I need. Just a single track, pitch & time correction and not too expensive. .... Stand-alone though... Will be great when Pieter get's the native SAW plug finished !!

[Naturally Digital]

This SAW Studio thing might catch on after all. :p

fvfThis thread is making me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Pieter, you are the man!! Great news!

[Mitch]

...just an FYI for those that dont know (I just discovered it myself) .... Kontakt 2 has Pitch and Time features built in ! -- Tone Machine (pitch) and Time Machine (time) !! :eek:

[Tree Leopard]

Ah... a native Time Compression plug... very good news...


I'm also working on a linear phase Eq. Will be released soon.Can't wait! :) Pieter, What are your plans re: DX / VST support? It would be great to use some of your stuff in other apps.

Andre

[PieterS]

I have plans for some plugs to be ported to VST.

[MMP]

What would be REALLY really useful IMO, would be to have the time compression hook into SS the same way that varispeed does presently. Especially the set varispeed to marked end position. If pitch remained constant with the resizing of regions with this command, it would be very powerful for loop based sessions, and fixing bad rhythm.

I am very excited to hear this plugin!

Regards,

MM

[Bob L]

That's exactly what the API hooks I talked about in my earlier message are all about.

Bob L

[MMP]

That's what I hoped!

Thanks,

MM