HELP!!! Crashing during tracking!

[Oz Nimbus]

Hey gang, I'm wondering if anyone has some insight as to what's up with this situation:

I'm running SSL, doing drum tracking. I'm running 10 mics, all input monitored, then routed thru the mixer to be recorded on separate channels. No problems so far, as long as it's a straight recording. However, if I try to run in SRP mode to playback a click track for the drummer (routed to a direct out via send #6) a few seconds after I hit the record button, SS crashes. I've tried increasing buffer sizes, but no dice. Shouldn't SS be stoping playback instead of crashing outright?

BTW, hardware is a pair of Delta 1010s.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,
-0z-

[AudioAstronomer]

Can we get more info about the session? Plugins used, outputs etc...?

[Carey Langille]

Hmmm, I do this everyday with no problems, What is generating the Click track??

[Oz Nimbus]

Can we get more info about the session? Plugins used, outputs etc...?


No plugs at all... only track FX, and not recorded at that. Gates & EQ's mostly.


As for outputs, only 2 sets: One for the control room, one for the headphones, that's it.

-0z-

[Oz Nimbus]

Hmmm, I do this everyday with no problems, What is generating the Click track??


The click track is a stereo audio file.

[Carey Langille]

Is everything at the same bit depth and sample rate? What is the error message??

[Oz Nimbus]

Yep, same bit depth & sample rate. No error message. It just plain crashes.

[Carey Langille]

Try a different set of outputs maybe?? Are you running in MME or ASIO?? If mme can you set your buffer size to larger to see if a larger buffer will clear it? Did you try 7 tracks or 8 tracks to see if it appears to be a system load issue?? Just some thoughts....

[AudioAstronomer]

Im running the same thing here just fine....

You sure you didnt switch something weird on somewhere? Maybe a softedge issue? Changing 0:00 position?

[Bob L]

There was an SRP crash problem with some drivers a while back... that was fixed in one of the updates...

What version of SAWStudio are you running?

Are you on the latest current version 3.7b?

Bob L

[Oz Nimbus]

Yep, running 3.7b here.



I'm wondering if it could be a softedge issue. I've got a 2ms "auto record" engaged.... and well, that's a whole lot of tracks to add a softedge to on the fly. I'll try it without and see how it goes.

-0z-

[AudioAstronomer]

Uh oh... I setup 2ms auto record softedge while using the same procedure and I got it to crash once... Not consistant, but once. Took some tweaking and fooling around... cant repeat it though.. yet.

[Oz Nimbus]

Well, softedge wasn't the problem. I tried engaging "auto record/SRP latch" and that seems to have solved the problem. Wierd. Any thoughts???

[AudioAstronomer]

Well, softedge wasn't the problem. I tried engaging "auto record/SRP latch" and that seems to have solved the problem. Wierd. Any thoughts???

Strange, my latch is always on, and I still managed one crash. Took me 2 hours but it happened lol :) I guess we've got different issues....

[Naturally Digital]

I'm running SSL, doing drum tracking. I'm running 10 mics, all input monitored, then routed thru the mixer to be recorded on separate channels. BTW, hardware is a pair of Delta 1010s.
-0z-

Hi Glenn,

If I'm understanding correctly, this is in Live mode right? Do you have any problems doing SRP when NOT in live mode?

Have you messed around with changing the driver model and trying the same thing?

Dave.

[Oz Nimbus]

Nope, so problems with SRP when not in live. Yes, I've tried different drivers, but only the ASIO drivers will give me decent performance. THe MME drivers are slow, and the WDM are next to useless.

-0z-

[Naturally Digital]

Nope, so problems with SRP when not in live. Yes, I've tried different drivers, but only the ASIO drivers will give me decent performance. THe MME drivers are slow, and the WDM are next to useless.
-0z-

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear...

Have you tried the other drivers with this current situation, just to see if it still crashes?

Along the same lines, try changing the buffer sizes and check for a crash...

I think these tests would help to narrow it down to a driver issue or not.

Good luck,
Dave.

[Oz Nimbus]

The other drivers are so awful, it's not even an option. I already tried buffer settings. That was the first thing I tried. No dice.


We've worked all morning with the "auto SRP/latch" engaged, and no problems whatsoever.

[Bob L]

Ok... so if you are now using the latch and its working fine... then how were you working before without the latch?

Were you using the Shift-SRP button with the mouse... were you using the spacebar and punching record with the retuirn key?

Give me an idea of the actual record process you used that would cause the crash.

Bob L

[Oz Nimbus]

I'd press the SRP button with my mouse, then engage the record button a few seconds later, again with the mouse.

-0z-

[Bob L]

That's pretty much the way I use it most of the time... I am puzzled why that would cause a crash and not when latched.

What about the Shift-SRP to engage both together when they are not latched... see if that causes the crash.

The other thing to test would be using the keyboard... press the SpaceBar to engage SRP, then punch in with the Return (Enter) Key... see if that crashes.

Bob L

[Oz Nimbus]

Ok, sounds good. I'll try it out tomorrow morning, and let you know what happens.

-0z-

[Oz Nimbus]

Hey Bob, I tracked all day, and this is what I found: If I'm doing 10 live inputs with SRP latched, no problems. However, if I try to punch in over some existing tracks, and punch 10 at a time with the latch engaged, it will crash occasionally. If I need to do a punch in, I can disable the latch, and no more problems. Weird.

-0z-

[Bob L]

That sounds contradictory to your earlier experience, where I thought you felt that using the latch was making things stable.

In the long run, the problem sounds like a system issue outside the SAW environment... with this kind of randomness, something else sounds like it may be causing the problems.

While, I cannot duplicate the problem on my rigs, and others seem to be stable with the same procedures, something else is probably going on.

I wonder if there are ram problems... if you have mixed ram from different purchase times or different manufacturers... this kind of thing has been know to happen. Weirdness that you just can't put your finger on...

Another thing to watch out for is the larger than 120 gig drives available today... the jury is still out on those having difficulties with motherboards, Windows and SAWStudio sector reads.

Keep drive sizes to 120 gig max for now.

Bob L

[Oz Nimbus]

Well, the latch makes things stable, as long as I'm not punching in over existing tracks. If I have to do a punch over an existing track, then undoing the latch stabilizes things.

I'm wondering if I have XP tweaked wrong as well. My memory is all the same, so that's not the issue. I'll keep playing around, however.

[Oz Nimbus]

Well, I tracked for the last two days, and here's what I've learned:

Tracking 10 inputs monitored with the Latch engaged in SRP mode on fresh tracks won't crash. Tracking 10 inputs monitored on a punch in over existing material will crash occasionally with the latch engaged. I don't have nearly as many problems with the latch disengaged for this scenario.
Keyboard, mouse, Mackie Control, it doesn't matter which I'm using for input. They ALL crash. I even tried disconnecting the Mackie, but no dice.

One wierd thing I've noticed: when it crashes, the soundcard will make a nasty "beeeep" sound, then hang the program.

Any suggestions?

-0z-

[Bob L]

Beep sounds... are you using ASIO?

What soundcard? Can you use MMER and see what happens.

Bob L

[Oz Nimbus]

Yeah, I'm using ASIO... it's a pair of Delta 1010s. MME isn't even an option. I've got to set my buffers to a minimum 512 for any kind of clear monitoring, and that size of buffer is way too slow to realistically monitor anything.

-0z-

[Shawn]

Oz,

I've never had two 1010's to sync up before, but I'm wondering, do you have the two 1010's sync'ed with wordclock, with one designated as master and running on it's own internal clock, and the other as a slave?

[MMP]

Beeping sounds like a latched buffer...IRQ problem?

Are these cards on unique interrupts?

MM

[Carey Langille]

Sounds like ASIO repeating buffers cause it could not keep up.....

[canipus]

the soundcard will make a nasty "beeeep" sound, then hang the program.

It's a driver problem. It's taken over 2 years for them to write a stable driver set that will handle 1 x 1010 not alone two of them sync'd.

[Oz Nimbus]

Thanks for the help, guys. I still haven't nailed it down 100% yet, but you've given me some ideas.... especially where multi-card sync is concerned. There's an option for "independent" sync. I'll give that a shot.


Thanks again!

-0z-

[canipus]

Thanks ...... I still haven't nailed it down 100% yet.

How much is your time worth? How much time can you really afford fiddling around with something that in all likelihood has nothing to do with SAW? - most other folks don't have this problem. That leaves your PC and associated hardware as the culprit. I have pointed out that the problem is most probably in the 1010 driver so do yourself a favor; beg, borrow, steal another mfr card set it up and see if you have the same problem. If problem gone then you can eliminate your PC setup and SAW. If problem still exists - I'm wrong and you can take it from there but you can save a bunch of time (assuming you care about that - most professionals do), by just doing a quick substitution.
What happens with just one x 1010 in the system? The 1010 drivers vary in performance. Have you tried the 5.10.00.27 driver in place of the latest .36 on a single card? That is your reference starting point.