Handling many midi...

[AudioAstronomer]

How do or do you suggest handling of many midi channels flowing. Are there midi patchbays or routers available?

I was thinking of getting one of those 8x8 midi interfaces, as that would be the perfect solution... Im starting to get into using my synths more with MWS.. just dropped a ton on more cv/gate -> midi converters for all my analogs and would love if I could get them more or less permanently routed so selection and use is very simple.

Any ideas or methods? Or will saw support (or does it already?) multiple midi devices?

[Westwind]

One MIDI interface should be able to hold you for the rest of eternity. One 8x8 box, which I've used for many years, will handle anything you can possible throw at it. Remember: each MIDI port allows for 16 channels. That's 128 total! I compose orchestral scores, and I've never even needed half of what I have. They've also come down in price. MOTU makes a good one, but there are many others. Most work with USB now, so no more wall-warts or power cables. Also, remember that softsynths and virtual samplers don't require any hardware ports, so you could potentially have even more channels at your disposal. Definately no need for more than 1 MIDI interface.
Good Luck

PS I got a good deal on Ebay on a 8 X 8 interface. ;)

[kent]

http://www.edirol.com/products/info/um880.html

One of the important benefits for me is the stand alone ability (no computer necessary - good for live performance).

Regards,
Kent

[AudioAstronomer]

http://www.edirol.com/products/info/um880.html

One of the important benefits for me is the stand alone ability (no computer necessary - good for live performance).

Regards,
Kent

OHHHH and it's edirol! (i love their products).

MWS works with multiple midi devices then? Many of my synths do not have thru-puts... So making use of a single line can be tough.

[Carey Langille]

Multiple midi inputs at the same time?? Recording of many midi channels at once? Is this the Question?

[AudioAstronomer]

Multiple midi inputs at the same time?? Recording of many midi channels at once? Is this the Question?

Recording from multiple midi devices.. not just channels.

[kent]

Recording from multiple midi devices.. not just channels.The DAW does not record a midi device, it records channel(s). Devices are set as possible sources of input (and destinations for output). Read the Edirol page I sent the link to, or re-read it. MIDI channnel data is sent from the UM880 to the computer over USB. There are 8 MIDI in ports on the UM880. Up to 4 UM880's can be used at once. That's 32 MIDI in ports (and 32 MIDI out ports). Also there's 32 x 16 = 512 data channels IN and 512 data channels OUT. If more is needed, I recommend a second PC with 4 more MIDI units and use SAW's TCP/IP function. This method can be multiplied by 8 (as you know). At that level you'll need to consider moving to a Stadium to house all the MIDI devices. :)I'd even consider a large Solar Array to mediate the electric bill.:D

The MIDI interface comes with a device driver cd. This lets SS's MWS know what (how many) I/O ports the interface offers. Ezzakerly liga de RME ploduck do fer audio.;)

Hope this helped,
Kent

[TotalSonic]

My MIDI needs are fairly simple (and I still use the "ancient" Winjammer & Orion instead of MWS) - but fwiw I use the little brother of the UM-880 (the UM-22) on one of my DAW's and it's worked very well for me.

I also really like the Marblesound Maple Virtual Cable as a virtual internal midi patch bay -
http://www.marblesound.com -
but it seems that their site is down right now.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Lance]

Recording from multiple midi devices.. not just channels.

Robert;

You need to use a Midi Merger device. Using this, you can simultaneously play multiple synths (they have to be assigned to different channels) and the Merger will merge them to one stream that can be recorded into MWS. Then you can split them out to different tracks in MWS.

I use an 8 channel device from Anatek who I don't think is in business anymore. You may find one on ebay or another company might make one.

I seem to remember a company called MIDI Solutions that has a lot of different Midi black boxes. They might have one.

Lance

[Westwind]

Sorry if I seem dense, but based on your posts, I'm still not sure what you're asking. Are you saying you need more than one 'controller' to input the MIDI data? Like a keyboard, a drum set, MIDI guitar? That's the only way I can see needing more than one input 'channel'. That's rare but not unheard of. However, you can still accomplish this with a single device, which allows for up to 8 inputs (devices). However, every MIDI prgram I've ever seen asks for one MIDI input to be used at a time. It can be changed in the MIDI dialogue box manually (in the software, including MWS) without having to physically change any cables. If, for example, you are recording MIDI keyboard data, then want to walk over to your E-drums, and want to lay a drum track down, you just switch input assignments in the MIDI setup MWS can have these already set up, then you switch over by right-clicking the record button in the MIDI track dialogue box. Though it allows for more than one physical device, there is no need for one.
If you're talking about MIDI thrus, then they have nothing to do with inputs anyway. They pass data on (out) to other devices. The only way you would need more than one MIDI device (interface) is if you have more than 8 MIDI playback devices (i.e. modules, keys etc.) This is very rare, especially since 16 part multi-timbral devices came out in the early 90's. (Perhaps you have a bunch of old vintage MIDI gear? (D-50's, Mini-moogs, etc.? Some MIDI buffs would drool!)
Incidentally, the ability to record two devices at the same instant can be done, but the data is merged, and can be corrupted. I experimented with it many years ago and found it to be impracticle and unreliable, not to mention virtually never needed. Bottom line: I can't see how you would ever realistically need more than a single 8 x 8 MIDI interface.
Sorry for the long post. Hope this helps. :)

[Lance]

Actually, it's really a great experience. I have recorded multi-player sessions on many occasions. Midi drums, two synths, a yamaha midi horn and live bass and live guitar.

I merged all the midi data onto a midi track in the sequencer and recorded the live tracks to audio tracks.

The nice thing is that you get the interaction of the rhythm section as well as the group "feel". Real "basic tracks" like it's normally done.

However, once you have the "take", there's the incredible flexibility of changing drum sounds, tweaking synth sounds, changing horn sounds, etc. as well as editing the occasional bad note or making timing modifications.

While it doesn't really work to fully quantize the tracks due to the live bass and guitar, the possibility *is* there to, with enough tedious work, slice up the guitar/bass tracks and snap them to grid as well.

I find that the ability to substitue and tweak the sounds as one of the most valuable benefits of recording a group with Midi as opposed to the straight sound.

Recording in this manner is really like the best of both worlds.

Lance

[AudioAstronomer]

(Perhaps you have a bunch of old vintage MIDI gear? (D-50's, Mini-moogs, etc.? Some MIDI buffs would drool!)


Now you're gettin the idea. Wendy been collecting synths for a while and I joined in. Ive been getting a few newer keys (nord lead 3, oberheim ob12, voyager, ion *swoon* much fun.. andromeda for christmas wendy promises) but the old stuff is way more fun for me.

I have a lot of stuff (well 4 synths) that have trouble or simply cannot channel select so having more than one physical port would be extremely helpful, as opposed to constantly having to blindly repatch i/o's behind devices (interface or instrument).

Problem 2 is that only the newer stuff has thru's also making a single physical port cause for patching and repatching... I try to keep all my outboard and interface devices sideways so I can reach easily (always a weird quirk of mine) but 5-pin are so bloody annoying to plug and replug.

Im also planning to start playing live drums/keys solo, bring 3-4 synths with me and play percussion live over pre-recorded (or live recorded) synths.. yet another reason for multiple physical ports (which i refer to as devices).

[AudioAstronomer]

The DAW does not record a midi device, it records channel(s). Devices are set as possible sources of input (and destinations for output). Read the Edirol page I sent the link to, or re-read it. MIDI channnel data is sent from the UM880 to the computer over USB. There are 8 MIDI in ports on the UM880. Up to 4 UM880's can be used at once. That's 32 MIDI in ports (and 32 MIDI out ports). Also there's 32 x 16 = 512 data channels IN and 512 data channels OUT. If more is needed, I recommend a second PC with 4 more MIDI units and use SAW's TCP/IP function. This method can be multiplied by 8 (as you know). At that level you'll need to consider moving to a Stadium to house all the MIDI devices. :)I'd even consider a large Solar Array to mediate the electric bill.:D

The MIDI interface comes with a device driver cd. This lets SS's MWS know what (how many) I/O ports the interface offers. Ezzakerly liga de RME ploduck do fer audio.;)

Hope this helped,
Kent

Just so the thread doesnt turn around, Im clear on that... i just use the wrong terminology :)

[Bob L]

Robert... just a little more clarification...


MWS can access 24 midi in ports and 24 midi out ports... you set them up one time in the Midi Devices setup... so an 8x8 device will take up 8 in ports and 8 out ports... you can then use another if you feel you need it... as long as Windows does not give you grief about seeing the multiple boxes.

In MWS, you select which in port you want to record from or thru from while jumping around the tracks with different patches... so 1 midi keyboard controller on port 1 can play all tracks worth of patches which will automatically route correctly once assigned and setup in the various setup dialogs... you can specify ini files of patch definitions and ports and midi channels for each synth you have connected.

If you have more than 1 type of controller... like a set of V-Drums on in port 2... you can simply select port 2 as your thru and recording device when you want to record midi data from the V-Drums...

In fact, MWS will allow you to assign different midi in ports as sources for different tracks, which means one performer can play the keyboard while another plays the V-Drums and you can do a multiple record on separate tracks at the same time.

As far as outputs, once assigned, you can have the MWS send data to any specific out port (up to 24) on a specific midi chan (up to 16) all at the same time.

You can also easily route data to VST synths as well using the Virtual ports routed to VST synths patched into SAWStudio's MT.

Hope that helps.

Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

Well, that's great news! Solves all my problems and questions... rest is up to me :) Now I gotta decide if the 880 is the best choice..

Thanks Bob, totally fabulous

[Carey Langille]

I have a roland A880 for sale!

[kent]

Thanks Bob, guess I wasn't clear enough . . .

Regards,
Kent

[AudioAstronomer]

I have a roland A880 for sale!

Really? I cant find much info on the unit, but for what I can find it seems like it may work... got pics and more info? PM me please.

[Carey Langille]

Its an 8 in 8 out midi patchbay + it merges any 2 inputs at a time.. Very cool! Roland released it in about 1988?? I think, and thats when i bought it new for 650.00. Will sell it for 125.00 or trade for something interesting! No pics but i could snap some i guess... If you google it there is a bunch of stuff on it..

[ffarrell]

Was it an investment?
:)
fvf



I think, and thats when i bought it new for 650.00. Will sell it for 1250.00 or trade for something interesting! ..

[Carey Langille]

WOOPS! Fixed! Thnx!

[AudioAstronomer]

I can get the edirol for 150... so I think ill pass.

Meanwhile, want to get the new anwida plugs when they're out along with a new vacuum, paint etc.. always waits till my brithday before stuff comes up that require $$ I just spent :o

[Carey Langille]

WOW, i just checked out the Edirol, that IS the Roland A880!! LOL, Guess they are recycling old products that worked, to NEW again! Roland are VERY smart with this (EDUCATIONAL ROLAND PRODUCT DIVISION!).. Enjoy!! and make Great music!