help with vsti's please

[earthpig]

Hi there,


Im having problems useing vsti's in saw, is there an easy step by step procedure? I can load the vsti and import my midi track into the midi editor but I get no output.
Anybody have any ideas? im useing Sawstudio Basic and midi workshop 1.5

Thanks

[TimK]

You have to assign the plugin to a VST Synth midi in port
and have the Midi Workshop midi out ports assigned
to corresponding virtual midi out ports.

I save mixer template files with combinations of VSTi
plugins pre-assigned to midi in ports.
Usually Kontackt, Battery, FM7, & SFZ (soundfont player).

It takes me about 20 seconds to save my session, open the mixer template, generate a click and start composing.

The following is copied from the MidiWorkshop help file
"Using VST Synth Plugins.

"Open the VST Synth plug-in window and [Left-Click] on the Blue Pyramid logo at the top of the VST plug-in client area. Select the Set SoftSynth Midi In Port option from the popup menu. Choose one of the Midi WorkShop Virtual Port links. Now in the Midi WorkShop
, assign a track to a port that has been set to the same Virtual Port setting. The sound will only be generated while the engine is running. Therefore, you must engage Live Mode, MultiTrack playback, Record Ready, Record, or SRP Record to get the engine in a running state. When the playback engine is in motion, the VST SoftSynth plug-in will act as any other hardware MIDI box and generate sounds when triggered from the MIDI track data or from a controller keyboard passing data with the MIDI Thru active."
Playback of pre-recorded data will have no latency issues to consider as the buffers are prepared in advance and remain in perfect sync with the rest of the data. When attempting to play live thru the plug-in during recording or playback operation, the amount of latency is adjusted by the SAWStudio Audio Buffer settings in the Audio Device Setup options. Adjusting the buffers to 4 at 256 or less should bring the latency close enough to real-time to allow a good musical performance. If your machine can handle 2 at 128 or less you will be in great shape.


You can lighten the cpu load during live VST Synth recording to allow the buffer settings to be reduced by selecting and playing only a few audio tracks with guide tracks on the Midi WorkShop. You can also consider building a rough mix of a complex session down to one stereo track to use while you overdub, as this can open up many creative opportunities for you.




VST Synth Scrubbing

Pressing the [L] key or [Right-Clicking] the Transport Play button will activate SAWStudio's Live Input Mode. The cursor will change shape giving visual feedback when Live Input Mode is active. VST Synths may now be scrubbed while Live Input Mode is active. [Right-Clicking] or pressing the [L] key again, or [SpaceBar], or Stop button will exit Live Input Mode. Editing features and certain positioning features will be disabled in Live Input Mode.

Save your Midiworkshop preferences so you don't have to
reassign your midi out ports the next time you reopen.

END

Tim Kirk

[Bob L]

Once you patch the VSTi in SAWStudio's MT, you then have to tell it where to look for midi input.

Click on the SAWStudio VST holder window's blue pyramid logo to popup the special options menu.

Select the Set SoftSynth Midi Port option and set the port to one of the MWS virtual ports.

Then go to the MWS track that has the midi data and set its port to the same MWS virtual port... also select a midi chan and a prg patch if needed.

Now when you playback the MT, the synth should sound and receive its triggers from the MWS data.

If you want to trigger manually or scrub a VSTi synth in SAWStudio, you must activate Live Input Mode or playback or record to start the engine running. SAWStudio does not leave its engine running all the time in the background as many other apps do that support VSTi synths.

There are more details to accessing VSTi synths easily in the MWS and other quick shortcuts for activating live mode.

You should read the sections on VSTi synths in the MWS helpfile and the SAWStudio helpfile for more details.

Bob L

[earthpig]

Sorry If I am being dense but once Iveloaded the vsti, I click on the blue diamond at the top and all I get is:

Load SawStudio Presets
Save Sawstudio Presets
Help


This is the window encasing the plugin right ?

[TotalSonic]

Earthpig -
What specific plugin are you trying to use? It sounds like SAW is recognizing it as a standard VST effects plugin and not as a VSTi.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Carey Langille]

I agree with steve, it does sound like it's seeing it as a VST plugin. I know that on VST plugins I have that have Midi capabilities,for changing controls and syncing (ambience- smartelectronix) they do not work in the SAWStudio VST engine.. (YET?) This VSTi/host tempo,data passing ,thing is tricky and Bob has not quite nailed down the code for it. But im sure its not that far off. It will be very cool to have delay times sync'ed to our song tempo, (if you use yout tempo mode, and I do! ) or have LFO's tracking it as well. I'm happy Bob actually trys to make all these totally different systems talk as well as they do.:D
From what i understand, the VST spec is pretty Kludgy at best, and i can only assume that its because there have been sooooo many different programmers having a hand at it.

We are actually very lucky to have one programmer, he knows everything there is about his own code. and hes fast at fixs and improvements because of it!...;)

[earthpig]

I am trying to use it with the BFD (http://www.fxpansion.com/

Thanks for your help. :)

[earthpig]

Ok it works with another vsti when I click on the pyramid, it just seems to be with the BFD :-(
Of course it had to be the one vsti I use nearly on every track. Backto samplitude for this I guess.

[Bob L]

I looked at the BFD info. It seems that the plug installs as DXi or VSTi.

Are you sure you are not using the DX version. Look to see if there are multiple versions in your FX Choices listbox... the VST ones are Green,,, make sure you are loading one of those... then chack to see if it is recognized as a Synth with the extra options active. From your message it sounds like you are not even seeing the extra options... even if a VST is not a synth, the extra Midi assignment options will be present, but greyed out.

Also, make sure you are on a current version of SAWStudio... the older versions may not have supported the VSTi protocol yet.

The current version is 3.7b.

Bob L

[earthpig]

I upgraded the vsti to the latest version, I was only one patch rev behind, but I see the options when clicking on the pyramid now. I didnt install the dx, rtas or rewire versions of the plug since I only like useing vst/vsti's, not a big fan of dx plugins.
Going to give it a shot now.

Thanks a lot for your help bob and co.

:)

[Sean McCoy]

I save mixer template files with combinations of VSTi
plugins pre-assigned to midi in ports.
Usually Kontackt, ...

Tim-

Since you are a Kontakt user, as an aside, maybe you can answer the question Michael and I were previously discussing since I'm trying to decide between trying to run Kontakt as a MWS plugin or in a dedicated PC (lots of large sample libraries). How much RAM are you finding available for Kontakt sample loading while running memory-hungry SS? Have you ever pushed it to its limits? I will be running it in DFD (streaming) mode. Any light you can shed here would be appreciated.

Sean McCoy
Oregon Sound Recording

[John Montgomery]

I know that on VST plugins I have that have Midi capabilities,for changing controls and syncing (ambience- smartelectronix) they do not work in the SAWStudio VST engine.. (YET?)

Hi Carey et al.,

The above could save me a lot of time on the learning curve. I use FLStudio (Fruity Loops) as a well featured VSTi 'drum machine', but recording the drums, etc. onto a set of adjacent tracks is not nearly as tight as writing and triggering a set of patterns. However, the patterns march along at their own tempo completely oblivious to the Tempo Map I have set up in SAW and so can't be used. So I was wondering just what you mentioned - Whether I still had to discover how to have FLStudio patterns chase the Tempo Map, or whether it wasn't implimented as yet.

So, am I understanding correctly? That for now, I cannot expect the FL patterns to roll along at the same tempo as is appearing on the MW readout (YET? ;-) and I can stop looking? ( I thought it was a tall order anyhow, at this stage, given how thoroughly Bob L. has approached the program development).

:-)
John Montgomery
Glassel, Scotland.

[Carey Langille]

Im not sure i understand, If what you are doing is triggering samples from Midiworkshop to a VSTi sampler. It will work perfectly for you as midiworkshop and sawstudios tempos will be perfectly locked. If your using SMPTE out to a Physical Drum machine, that will work too! If FL is trying to see sawstudios tempo map through the VSTi device, this will currently not work. Maybe FL can look at a SMPTE device if you have one and you can Sync to that, Making SAW the master and chasing smpte from FL. Im not sure about the capabilities of FL, sorry.

There is a function of the VSTI spec, that allows the VSTI to see the Hosts tempo/clock. This is the function i have spoke about. Some vstis that have these abilities for clock, LFO tracking, Speeds, Delaytimes, Tempo. The VSTI still work in most cases, but certain functions will not.. In some cases, the VSTi will not work at all. Drum machine style vsti's, Groove Agent for example, and Things like Virtual Guitarist, and Hypersonic, that rely on loops to play in Sync.. Sync they look for from the host....

The last time i talked to Bob, he is going to look ay this as time allows, so im sure if it can be done, we will see it in a future update...

[TotalSonic]

I don't use FL - but I use Orion which is very similar. If FL works like Orion for synching (and I think it does) then it can not sync to MTC/SMPTE - but only to ReWire or Midi Clock / Song Position Pointers.

If so then you can use the JMS Metronome plugin to generate MC/SPP and set this to trigger FL's patterns to start.
http://www.jms-audioware.com/ss_click.htm
I've found timing tends to drift a tiny bit using this - and another drawback is that you need to make sure that you trigger off a "1" if you don't start playback from the beginning by putting SAW into Tempo Mode, going into grid mode (hit the G key) and advancing to a measure start by hitting the left or right arrow keys before starting playback.

I've been hoping that Bob will implement ReWire in a future update so that we'll be able to sync apps like Orion, Ableton Live, Reason, and FL to SAW with no hassle sample accurate timing.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Carey Langille]

Just on a side note.. Waves just Updated all their VST plugins,(Version 5) to accept host temo for Syncing LFOS, DELAY TIMES, ECT...

[TotalSonic]

Just on a side note.. Waves just Updated all their VST plugins,(Version 5) to accept host temo for Syncing LFOS, DELAY TIMES, ECT...

Yeah - it would be awesome if SAW's VST hosting was updated to be able to pass this info to the plugin as lots of VST plugs can work of the host's tempo for synching their effects these days.

Question is - how many wish list items can we throw at Bob all at once?!
Maybe their should be a meter on top of the site so we can know when we've exceeded our quota :)

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[John Montgomery]

If what you are doing is triggering samples from Midiworkshop to a VSTi sampler.[...]

No, it's what Steve Berson has outlined. I'll give JMS Metronome a try, see how I go.

Thanks for your responses.

:-)
John Montgomery
Glassel, Scotland.