OT-Microphone Recommendations

[Sean McCoy]

I have a pretty good collection of mics, including several high-end LDC's. But for a recent audio book project I had to simultaneously record 10 actors in a room. This forced me to use a few mics that I'd prefer not to use in that situation again, primarily due to poor rear rejection. So I'm in the market for a couple of new mics. They need to be able to be worked close but handle high SPL's as well. (just can't trust those actors!)

On the lower end, I'm considering the Rode NT2A and Shure KSM32; mid-range Rode NT2000 and Shure KSM44; high-end Neumann TLM103 and AKG XLII. What I'd really love would be either a pair of Gefell UMT70S's or Neumann TLM127's, but I don't think I can justify $3,000 right now!

Recommendations from folks with experience using any of these mics (or others I haven't considered) would be appreciated.

[mike_da_min]

I have the audio technica 3035 which is the best mic under 400.00 next to the rode series mic. It has an incredible sound and if you check all the music websites such as samash or musicians friend you'll find that this mic has a 9 out of 10 rating on every consumer website you can find.

[matt]

Try the Gefell M930. I own one and love it. It's actually the m7 capsule that was used in the first (and most sought after) Neumann U47's. It's a bit cheaper than the UMT's and should get you the same results unless you plan on using a figure 8 pattern. It has a wonderful cardioid pattern and an even response... btw, I traded in an AT4047 and don't miss it one bit!

[TotalSonic]

For dealing with high SPL's the Audio Technica AT4050 is hard to beat and can be a real work horse - although it tends to be on the bright side of things.

For an inexpensive Chinese LDC that sounds very good for a lot of applications and that seems to have better quality control than most of the cheapies the Studio Projects C1 and C3 are good bang for buck options if you need to get a bunch of extra mics for the "B" list in your closet.

The Shure KSM32 is definitely a nice clean neutral mic and will probably get used a lot. Neumann TLM103 is really nice on a lot of vox too - but you pay a little premium for the name in its price tag.

as far as something to wish for that is probably way over most of our budgets:
I've done a little bit of work at Excello recently and got to say that their Neumann U67 is definitely an amazing mic - pretty much works for nearly anything you put it in front of.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[mako]

I recommend trying the Kel Audio HM1. At US$100 each and "money back if not satisfied" option you cannot go wrong.
Much better than a lot of far more expensive mics.

If you're after a few very good mics for not a lot of money - these deserve a try. I own three and love them.

Then again, if you're after a Gefell or Neumann....... well, you probably need to go there.

Good luck

mako

[Ian Alexander]

I picked up a pair of Shure KSM-44s a few months ago. Used them in a Blumlein setup for a choral recording. Very nice. Since then, I've been using one of them in cardioid for VO sessions and have received several compliments on the condenser sheen on the highs. I was using an RE-20, which still sounds a bit more real to me, but I like compliments. I would think the Shure would fit right in with your other condensers. I used one of them for a kids' part on a jingle last week and it sounded great. Most places I visit that have Neumanns eq them for VOs. Not necessary with the Shure. Two rolloffs make it pretty flexible.

The Shures list for 1400, but sell for 700.

[Carl G.]

high-end Neumann TLM103 and AKG XLII. What I'd really love would be either a pair of Gefell UMT70S's or Neumann TLM127's, but I don't think I can justify $3,000 right now!

Recommendations from folks with experience using any of these mics (or others I haven't considered) would be appreciated.
I'm unimpressed with the TLM line.
Anything close to the original U47 is about as warm as it gets for vocals.
Latest issue of one of the trades (sittin round here somewhere) has a great U47 sound alike shootout... one Gefell ranked high. (course each U47 has its own characteristic variation). The U47 is the best mic I've ever worked.

[AcousticGlue]

Try StudioProjects C1. If not that go for their $500 tube mic.

[Sean McCoy]

Thanks for all the helpful comments, everybody. I am looking for something above the pack of inexpensive project-studio mics and foreign knockoffs, so I'm leaning toward a pair of the Shure KSM44's.

Ian, can you tell me anything about its rear rejection? I have a pair of AT 4033's, which sound really nice on a variety of things, but have such terrible rear rejection that they're basically figure 8. For that reason I'm hesitant to go with any of the AT's that were recommended.

Matt, are you sure the M930 uses the M7 capsule? The info on their website didn't mention it, while it was very specific about other mics that did have it. My first choice here really would be a pair of UMT70's, but a couple thousand extra dollars would need to fall out of the sky.

[Bill Park]

I was pretty impressed with the 127, but you would be jumping up a class to get into that ballpark.I was pretty unimpressed with the Shures in the studio, compared to the other choices that I have.

But from reading your original post, I don't know that what you want to buy woulds solve the problem, or that you're going to do enough of this work to need to solve the problem.

In other words, if you want a pair of LDs, and you are unhappy with the ATs (which seem to get a lot of respect across the net and in Nashville studios...) then maybe you want to save up for the 127s or something similar, rather than buy something less. In the meantime, would it be practicle to rent?

Bill

[ffarrell]

I use the 4050 alot and like it. As of late I have been playing with some of the cheap mics coming across the pond and have found them to be of value.

Search the web for cheap mic shoot outs.

hope this helps

good luck
fvf

[Sean McCoy]

I like the At 4033's and use them frequently for recording piano, group vocals and as drum room mics, and the 4050 is decent as well, though quite bright as Steve mentioned. But it was during this "theatre in the round" session that the poor rear-rejection of the 4033's proved to be a major issue, prompting me to want to add a new pair of mics that would be better in that situation. And, of course, while I'm buying new mics I'd like to get a pair that would also serve as good alternatives to my other good LDC's, and have multiple patterns for stereo recording options. The Shures have gotten reviews comparing them favorably to Neumann TLM 103's, are relatively affordable and are multi-pattern. I'm still looking for more feedback, though, and may yet hold out for the Gefells.

[mikebuzz]

Um70 from Geffell If you can find one , I got mine for $700 ( older version the new one is the UMT70S )

LAter
Buzz
:cool:

[jeromee]

I have been playing with some of the cheap mics coming across the pond and have found them to be of value.fvf

I picked up the Meek pac for $125. A super deal for a mic. The thing really is built like a tank:D Oh yeah, It sounds good also.

http://www.joemeek.com/jm472.html

[Ian Alexander]

Thanks for all the helpful comments, everybody. I am looking for something above the pack of inexpensive project-studio mics and foreign knockoffs, so I'm leaning toward a pair of the Shure KSM44's.

Ian, can you tell me anything about its rear rejection? I have a pair of AT 4033's, which sound really nice on a variety of things, but have such terrible rear rejection that they're basically figure 8. For that reason I'm hesitant to go with any of the AT's that were recommended.

Matt, are you sure the M930 uses the M7 capsule? The info on their website didn't mention it, while it was very specific about other mics that did have it. My first choice here really would be a pair of UMT70's, but a couple thousand extra dollars would need to fall out of the sky.
Sean,

You can download the specs from shure.com, which will give you the graphs of the polar patterns, but they're a little hard to read. I just went into the booth and did some experimenting with the KSM44. It is a 3-pattern mic and I use the cardioid setting for VO.

I read the same piece of copy into the front and then the back of the mic. I used no phones, which would probably make me want to talk louder on the back. I was at about 6 inches in both cases, with the mic slightly above and slightly off center, but aimed straight at the cake hole. According to the Levelizer, the top 50 peaks on the front were between -5 and -9. On the back, -22 to -29. The playback of the back side take had far less presence, too, even when the levels were matched. No surprise, since the directional charateristics of most cardioids are extremely frequency dependent.

In another highly scientific test, I put on the phones and started making a SH noise at the mic. As I turned it, the difference in level and presence was striking. The deepest nulls are off to either side of straight back, but the entire back side of the mic produced a much lower level and less presence than the front.

As expected with a LDC, the front of the mic has a pretty wide "cone" of usefulness. Again, it's cardioid, not super- or hyper-cardioid. So if you have two actors almost side by side on one part of your circle, you'll get some bleed. Makes me wonder what would happen if you paired up the actors by voice type and had them share bi-directional mics. Or, if you have a really dry room, use just one omni and place the actors closer or farther, based on how loudly they speak. With a little effort, you could place your softer voices on one side of the group, and louder voices opposite. That way, you'd still have a circle, but the mic would be off-center toward the softer voices. I suppose that would make it harder to justify a good hourly rate, though. :)

HTH.

[Sean McCoy]

Thanks a million, Ian. Effort way above the call of duty---and excellent use of science, too. For this and its likely followup project(s), we were creating what is essentially an audio-only movie soundtrack, so maximum isolation for each actor was critical during the mix. I spent a lot of time cleaning the sections of tracks that were bleed-only to isolate the needed lines (thank God for soft-edge!). The U-87 and 414 tracks were nearly bleed-free enough to leave alone (though I didn't), while the 4033 and Rode NT-1 tracks were significantly more infested.

Thanks for the omni suggestion. It isn't practical for this level of detail, but I think I'll put one up in the center of the room next time to capture the group walla.