Question for Bob.

[Larry Burger]

Bob:
Would there be any value to have a large talkback button?
You could assign a microphone input to it, with dim functions to the aux sends.

Thank you for taking time to evaluate all the questions you have.

[Bob L]

Now you are getting into SAC territory... the Software Audio Console which I am working on as we speak. :)

Bob L

[Leadfoot]

very interesting.. i'm already invisioning running two machines for a live setup, one with sac for foh, and one for recording.. am i close on that? even tho i know we can do that now with studio, i'm thinking sac would be better/more stabil without all the recording overhead, less complicated? i'm picturing doing festivals next summer with a monitor and a mouse instead of my huge a&h gl3300.. although i love that thing it's a beast. i can imagine the looks i'd get from everyone.. btw, i'm always in need of more aux's for live, so.. then again if it's like studio with plug-ins, i guess it doesn't matter. plus i could see using one for monitors too.. wow, i'm really liking this. i hope i'm understanding this right. i just woke up, maybe i'm still dreaming.

tony


Now you are getting into SAC territory... the Software Audio Console which I am working on as we speak. :)

Bob L

[Bob L]

The SAC design will be quite expanded as a console... I am now experimenting with 16 to 24 stereo auxes.... and there will be a networked monitor view that allows a second engineer to see only aux monitor mixes in full view with faders and so forth... just for working the monitors... while the front of house engineer gets to oversee everything...

Should be fun...

My hope is to have internal direct buffer passing between SS and SAC (like the MWS) so you can use SAC for the console and SS to record... on the same machine.

Bob L

[Craig Allen]

That would be incredible! I'm patiently waiting for SAC myself.

[Sebastian Eskildsen]

And me to:D

Sebastian

[cool_sax]

Bob, is it in a far or near future that we should expect that miracle piece of software !

Thanks

MArio

[Bob L]

Hopefully in a few months.

But so many things have been delayed due to the fire and the reconstruction mess that I have been dealing with.... its really hard to set a definite deadline. :)

Bob L

[cool_sax]

I Guess you just said enough to keep us on the edge of our seat !

But one more thing, Will it be Integrated Like MWS in SS or as a Seperated software that will talk to it. And maybe an idea of how much i should expect to gladly spare for that. (Just a Range)

ps I'm one sure sell and thanks for this journey that you make possible by sharing your vision with us !

Mario Cote

[Bob L]

I believe this program will be stand-alone... separate from SS... with an internal check to see if SS is running and if so... to link its internal buffers and hooks to pass the audio between the two.

Bob L

[Naturally Digital]

Now you are getting into SAC territory... the Software Audio Console which I am working on as we speak. :) That's fantastic news! Especially since my new (to me) digital console was recently stolen while in transit via UPS!!

Looking forward to SAC Bob. Sounds exciting.

[Dave Labrecque]

That's fantastic news! Especially since my new (to me) digital console was recently stolen while in transit via UPS!!

Looking forward to SAC Bob. Sounds exciting.

Egads. I sure hope someone took care of you on that! :eek: Tell us it wasn't a total loss for you. :(

[brent]

SWEET! I am looking at some large frame digital consoles now.

24 Auxes would be great.

I need to be able to mix no less than 72 inputs
Send 24 monitor mixes to the stage
16 groups ( I use 8 VCAs and 8 GRPs now)
LCR mains

What about a full featured oscillator and pink noise generator wth routing to anywhere?

Are we close? If not close on the output side, I could always just insert SAC and get the automation and recording functions, while retaining the Midas.

[ghowardjr]

Here's what I would like to see.... May be a pipe dream but here goes. One of the things about a live digital console is reliability/redundancy. i would like to see the ability to "link" two SAC on two machines, maybe via the TCP/IP functionality so that you would be able to have a backup if one machine goes down. Obviously, you'd have to have a way to physically split the Inputs and outputs so both machines could "see" the same inputs, but that's actually quite easy to do. The way I do this now is to use an inexpensive piece of hardware like the Hearback ADAT/Network device, which gives me two copies of each ADAT signal and also allows me to do long cable runs over standard CAT-5.

Look forward to hearing your response on this,
Gary

[Bob L]

Hopefully it will fit the large format concepts that we all dream about... we'll see... there will probably be spindows at less price also.

I still ave a way to go on it... and SAWStudio 4.0 is first in line.

Bob L

[Larry Burger]

Bob:
If we need to run Multiple mixes (examples- acoustic and vocal (patio)) 2nd a simultaneous (piano, bass alternative vocal (entry way)) 3rd (rhythm section without vocals (restrooms)). So in essence 6 or more mixes some live and some pre recorded.

These will have discrete video presentations (6 or more (in synchronization with the performances) to be displayed to large screens around the facility. The displays will route through a matrix to combine and separate (controlled via rs control track).

Also control track to lighting, automation and sensors.

So if I understand:

Live audio will route through SAC (live with prerecorded emanating from SAW direct out, or through SAC?)

Will Video be generated from SAW in Slave to SAC or SAW with SAC Slave (7 or 8 machines?) Some pre-produced and some live feed.

Will control track come from SAW also or SAC?

Thank you Bob you are a very creative individual.

Larry…

[Bob L]

Not sure if SAC will include a timeline type of automation... or sequence cue type or both.

Video will most likely be reserved for SS... its a lot of code for video output and most SAC users would have no need for it so I doubt I will clutter the SAC code with video.

Multiple mixes... of course thru the many aux busses and possibly a matrix type output section also...

Its actually too early to answer these types of design questions... the first issue at hand is to streamline the live engine and get it solid and stable at extreme low latencies... then make design decisions as to the channel and routing design features and then we'll go from there.

Bob L

[Naturally Digital]

Egads. I sure hope someone took care of you on that! :eek: Tell us it wasn't a total loss for you. :(Well, we'll see... It's a waiting game for now... The unit was shipped through a Pak Mail location so...

The whole thing is quite ironic actually... :rolleyes:

[ttako]

Hi Bob,

It sounds very good to have SAC in a couple of months...
I am using live Yamaha DM2000s, PM1d, 02R96, 01V96, M7CL, Innova son etc...
It would be great to have a stable software based system...
The redundancy (using two PCs with TCP/IP connection) as written earlier would be a great and safe feature.
Having 24 Stereo auxes and mix view is great for IEM monitor mixing.

One thing we discovered, using IEMs is possible only with less than 5-6msec total system delay from Mic to Ear plug!! :eek:
(elsewere the voice of the vocalist starts to modulate with his own acoustical voice he is hearing inside giving a very VERY strange sound...)

Scene memory recalls and preview would be great. And Eq, dynamics, CH view libraries as well (as the hardware digital consoles)
Do it will be something like Effects? Native or VST/ DX? Or even if they would be running on separate machine like using FXteleport and gigabit LAN?

One thing nobody asked yet... Will it be possible to use some Hardware remote things (like the Mackie MCU and Extender and C4 or any other) ?

And what's about I/O hardware? It would be nice to have some Modular I/O hardware with DIO cards and MIC/line cards (with recallable GAIN, PAD and 48V)..... It could be done for PCIe slot... (like the hardware for SADIE 64 workstation...)

There are some really good digital snakes with MICpre remote gain, and they are controllable from the PC using a simple software... If some of them could be integrated... :D
It would be the greatest and most scaleable console on the market. Not to mention the easy link to the SS giving Live recording possibility...

What about using UAD and PoCo II?

It would be grat to have multi CPU ability as well and of course low latency...
sorry for so many question....

I would set up a dual Dualcore Opteron High End Server for such a purpose for example. They are quite robust and stable with lot of horsepower.

I have read a story about a Diana Krall tour, where the monitor console was a PC notebook and it was controlling some SoundWeb London DSPs which has MIC/line input options...

And of course there was pictures about the Gamble DCX consoles with dual monitor setup and a keyboard, and mouse and a simple faderbank for FOH mixing of some tours...

I just cant await how things will be :D

Best regards,

Tamas

[Bob L]

Realize that any VST plugs or native plugs that require buffer size manipulation or latency control will not work... there is no advanced signal when using live mics... so there will be certain limits.

Bob L

[ttako]

Realize that any VST plugs or native plugs that require buffer size manipulation or latency control will not work... there is no advanced signal when using live mics... so there will be certain limits.

Bob L

Thats clear.

Just was thinking that some of my friends uses their notebook and a soundcard to run sampling reverbs on live venues using the analogue or digital console's sends and returns. The latency is not a BIG issue, since it can be a part of the so called pre delay. :D

So why not using send type effects without latency compensation like this?

Tamas

[Bob L]

Sure... with live low latency anyway, you can direct aux sends out to devices and back again... and you can use hardware verbs... that goes without any special coding for such.

Bob L

[Naturally Digital]

That's fantastic news! Especially since my new (to me) digital console was recently stolen while in transit via UPS!!Well, whaddya know! Just in time for St Paddy's Day, UPS "found" my mixer! It got lost and somehow ended up in Montreal. Apparently it fell out of the packing carton at some point and went in a different direction (they had originally delivered an empty carton to my place). It looks as though it was dropped 'cause the wrist rest is broke off and the chassis is twisted but otherwise it works OK. There are a few little things that seem fishy about the whole incident but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it at this point.

Just thought I'd finish the story here. Man, I feel bad for chew'in out the guy who sold it to me. :o Oh well... I *did* beg him not to use UPS. Unfortunately he got a sell job from PakMail though.

[Perry]

.... UPS "found" my mixer! .... I *did* beg him not to use UPS.

Instead of UPS, I call them "Oops". :rolleyes:

Glad you got your mixer .. finally. :)

Perry

PS: A short while back I was expecting a package with some vintage audio hardware in it.. shipped USPS from the US.

The package arrived.. with my name on it... but when I opend it up it had a set of used Honda headlights in it! :eek:

Turns out Canada Customs screwed it up and the customs declaration got put on the wrong package. My parts arrived a few days later. I gave the headlights back to the postman. I don't know if the guy in Calgary that those were supposed to go to ever got them or not. It's like rolling the dice to see if you get your package here... scary stuff! :)

ADDED: Another bad shippping story. A week or so ago a client sent me a rush package from another town about 30-40 miles from here.... via a well known Canadian shipper (spelled Purolator;) ) . They promised same day delivery to my door. Two days later I called them to find out where the heck my package was and after the guy on the phone did a bit of searching I was told it had been "redirected". I asked "To where?". The guy then proceeded to give me *MY* address! :eek:

At that point it was sitting at the terminal here so I went and got it. The thing is it had my number on it and they could have called if there was a problem... but they never did.

But wait! There's more! :D On a different occassion... someone sent me some files to master via an Xpresspost package from Vancouver Island (very near). It had a next day guaranteed delivery.

Several days later I still hadn't received it and the client was freakin! Finally I got a message in the mail saying that I had a package that needed to be picked up at a local post office station. It was the missing package of course... so much for next day guaranteed delivery!!! ;)

The most recent adventure is the package that was sent to me from Florida via USPS that took almost 2 months to arrive!

The only carrier I even remotely trust is Fed Ex and maybe DHL. Otherwise might as well send it by pack mule... probably safer... and quicker too!

[Pedro Itriago]

The only carrier I even remotely trust is Fed Ex and maybe DHL. Otherwise might as well send it by pack mule... probably safer... and quicker too!

Ever since being bought by deutche post, think twice about dhl too. I mean, it'll get there, just not when advertised.

[Naturally Digital]

Quite the horror stories Perry... Man! I guess that's what we pay good money for nowadays. With the millions and millions of packages shipped every day, why does it always seem to be our critical ones that go astray. I mean, as a percentage of the total # of packages I ship or receive, I haven't had much good service... Sounds like that's similar on your end. What gives?:confused:

Oh well, onward and upward!

[Carl G.]

UPS delivered a 'brand new Otari 8 track' (when it was 8,000 +) to a house a 1/4 mile away - delivered on the driveway in the RAIN! (with no one home!)
(even though I was supposed to sign for it)

The Otari 8 Track sat there soaked overnight till the next day when the neighbor called to see if I wanted it!

However, today, because I know the driver...the inbound service is excellent.

[studio-c]

Now you are getting into SAC territory... the Software Audio Console which I am working on as we speak. :) Bob L
Du-u-u-u-de!
Please let us know the details before I go out and buy a new console as a front end for SS. If I buy a Soundcraft Ghost the week before this comes out, I'll kill myself :)

Very exciting, Bob!

Scott

[studio-c]

Instead of UPS, I call them "Oops". :rolleyes:

PS: A short while back I was expecting a package with some vintage audio hardware in it.. shipped USPS from the US. !

I have dreams of UPS guys in their brown shorts using cartons of my audio equipment as soccer balls as they play warehouse/forklift/golfcart soccer. They really don't give a crap.

And USPS, forget it. Those guys are actually scary in their passive-aggressive disinterest. Three months after giving up on a package, I got a "Third and Final Notice" to come down and pick up a package at a USPS location nowhere near my office. I told them I'd never gotten the first or second notice. <shrug> If they had my address, why couldn't they just have delivered the package instead of the postcard? It was sent Express, or whatever they call their deluxe shipment that you pay extra for. Oh, by the way, there are no tracking numbers, so it's useless anyway.

End of rant.

Yeah, I'm thinking FedX has been best for us too.

[Pedro Itriago]

A focusrite tone factory here. I never could pin it to the store or to USPS, they both blamed each other. Not even the BBB was able to help me. The only big thing I've lost in all my online shopping

[Ian Alexander]

Maybe thirty years ago, my grandfather in Canada was settling the estate of a great great aunt who lived in Miami. He went to Florida and took care of most of the details, then went home to handle the rest by mail. Her bank had agreed to forward her bank statements to him, but one statement was late, so he called the bank. They assured him the statement had been mailed, but sent him a copy and he finished the settlement.

About three months later, he received the original statement. Stamped on the envelope was, "FOUND IN A BIN THOUGHT TO BE EMPTY."

They actually had a stamp for this! I still wonder if the envelope was missing for four months or if it took that long for them to decide what the stamp should say.

[Base1studio]

Now you are getting into SAC territory... the Software Audio Console which I am working on as we speak. :)

Bob L

Been looking forward to this!!...can't wait......!!

[Pedro Itriago]

With all this, we seem to have forgotten where the "Your check's in the mail" phrase was coined.

[Carl G.]

UPS delivered a 'brand new Otari 8 track' (when it was 8,000 +) to a house a 1/4 mile away - delivered on the driveway in the RAIN! (with no one home!)
(even though I was supposed to sign for it)

The Otari 8 Track sat there soaked overnight till the next day when the neighbor called to see if I wanted it!

However, today, because I know the driver...the inbound service is excellent.
Just another thought... in all my years, I've never had a bad billing or bad delivery with Fed-Ex. On Time, On Budget, On "Target"!

[Mark Stebbeds]

Just another thought... in all my years, I've never had a bad billing or bad delivery with Fed-Ex. On Time, On Budget, On "Target"!

Once I had a guy call and tell me he found a DHP Express letter adressed to me at a gas station, lying on the ground by the pumps where cars had run over it. It had been opened.

Fortunately it had my phone number on the label, and the good samaritan gave me a call. It was a contract for a job I had been waiting for.

I have an account with Fed Ex as well. I can go to their website and schedule a pickup on short notice, and leave it outside if I have to leave. They haven't failed me yet. My friends also have excellent luck with UPS.

Mark